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View Full Version : The new frontier of DLR. What changes lie ahead?



Teddi
08-17-2011, 07:06 PM
According to Dis- DLR had record attendance in 2 quarter, mostly due to June. I think we may have seen the *tipping point*. The point where even TDA doesn't really want more people coming to their parks. Actually, I don't think we may have seen it, I think we did. And now, starts a new era where Disney doesn't just want to draw people, with "come come come". I think we now are into new territory where TDA will attempt to drive folks in at certain times and NOT try at others. Nearly a million passholders, the Carsland game changer... we very well may see the Lutz cited "seasonal pricing" in effect. And maybe a premium added to the parkhopping (though, while this does add "value" to DLR I think Dis is treading still in dangerous territory. I think it still works better to be "all hopping" instead of yes/no). Even Iger hinted at this, with basically stating "we're not in a need or hurry to offer "off season" discounting"- YET they DO seem to be continuing with their WDW promos (free dining, esp).

I believe Lutz is right when he said that DLR can finally say- yep, DLR is smaller- BUT more profitable. More bang for the buck (for both us guests and the company). It's like they figured it out: If you build it, they will come.

So, what's next? Seasonal pricing? Dramatic or at least substantial overhauls to APs? (as in restricting hopping). Not sure what the PURPOSE of that would be? To lessen the value of the pass to make folks less interested? Just to change/force certain behavior? Adding quite a bit more blockout dates? Other?

What about promo-ing more "fuse tickets" OR creating a "mini pass" with say- a limited number of admissions (like 5 visits per year or some such- with limited blackout dates) directed at the So Cal market (my idea btw, not any that I've seen as rumors)?

Attendance numbers alone are not the almighty happy maker for TDA- it's actually $spent per guest per day. When the parks run in max mode- we see summers like this one (broken down rides), heavy crowds (which does detract from overall experience for *most* folks). That's do-able for a week here or there. But months of that- june, july, august, october - can actually be detrimental. Disney is the most surveying company (parks at least) that I've ever encountered.

Anyway, what say you? And how would you feel about any of the forementioned ideas and how would it impact (or not) your trips to the DLR?

The old man
08-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Huh?

Teddi
08-17-2011, 08:49 PM
oh dear lord. it's just a thread discussing many of the rumored upcoming changes about how Disney executives plan on handling APs and guest demand.

ShelbyH
08-17-2011, 11:13 PM
The best way to ease overcrowding is to get as many people as possible out of DL and into DCA. They need to balance the crowd between the two parks. Non-parkhopping APs is counter-intuitive--who's going to pay hundreds of dollars JUST for DCA? Cars Land or no, DCA still doesn't have the draw as the original, and I don't think it ever will, although they are trying. If they want to squeeze more money out of APs, they should up the blockout dates to force people into the more expensive levels. That said, if they're serious about this, they'll cut out the bottom two APs altogether. The fact is, they haven't cut the bottom two, and they recently opened up the monthly payment option to all Californians, so it doesn't appear to me at all that they want to cut down on APs. Honestly I'm not that worried about it. I know the rumors, but I don't feel like they're there yet. And I also think Iger, like many heads of corporations, is well-versed in the non-answer. Why would he say something now and have to eat his words later? Better for him to be as vague as possible, with the whole "everything is on the table, we haven't ruled anything out" non-answer. Who knows? Best enjoy it while we can :).

MadasaHatter
08-17-2011, 11:29 PM
First let me say that if I am not interested in a thread I not only DON'T even read it.....(Why'd they take the Crab out of POTC? I don't know. I don't care. I clicked on it once when it went to it's 5th page out of shear curiousness and was STILL not at all even interested. So. I didn't comment. It remains the most popular thread since I have been on here. I clearly am the odd man out on this nutty MOUSEPLANET..... so while it is a free country and everyone can have an opinion IF I am not interested in a thread I. JUST. DON'T. COMMENT. Whew. Had to get that off my chest)

Ok what is this thread? Cupcakes? Tomorrowland? OH RIGHT. Changing the AP and admission etc.

I think this is a cool thread for folks opinions. I am an SF AP so I don't get to the parks as much as I would like but that said it is very interesting the HUGE CHUNK of MONEY they are popping into DCA. I think the idea is to make DISNEYLAND RESORT both parks equally popular and that day will be a good 25 years away but they are doing the right things ( I think and only time will tell)

I am very excited about the new DCA and I agree that the PARK HOPPING option would only for NOW get folks to choose DISNEYLAND even with CARS LAND open etc. I don't think there are too many MAD people (like me) out there that would vote for MAIN ST. USA as their favorite land and I may be MAD enough to vote for BUENA VISTA ST. as my new favorite land in DCA. Because.....well....I'm mad.....

MidwayManiac
08-18-2011, 12:30 AM
First let me say that if I am not interested in a thread I not only DON'T even read it.....(Why'd they take the Crab out of POTC? I don't know. I don't care. I clicked on it once when it went to it's 5th page out of shear curiousness and was STILL not at all even interested. So. I didn't comment. It remains the most popular thread since I have been on here. I clearly am the odd man out on this nutty MOUSEPLANET..... so while it is a free country and everyone can have an opinion IF I am not interested in a thread I. JUST. DON'T. COMMENT. Whew. Had to get that off my chest)

Ok what is this thread? Cupcakes? Tomorrowland? Because.....well....I'm mad.....

And see, that right there (on a related note) is why I DO CLICK on threads. Namely because I see you, madasahatter, has graced the board with this type of gem. I laughed out loud, thanks!

As for the topic at hand: It's an interesting one, yes. But we get so much use out of our APs that Disney would have to make extreme changes to the cost and/or terms of use for it not to be worth our while. And I know that's probably very much a minority opinion.

The old man
08-18-2011, 04:58 AM
First let me say that if I am not interested in a thread I not only DON'T even read it.....(Why'd they take the Crab out of POTC? I don't know. I don't care. I clicked on it once when it went to it's 5th page out of shear curiousness and was STILL not at all even interested. So. I didn't comment. It remains the most popular thread since I have been on here. I clearly am the odd man out on this nutty MOUSEPLANET..... so while it is a free country and everyone can have an opinion IF I am not interested in a thread I. JUST. DON'T. COMMENT. Whew. Had to get that off my chest)
I guess this sideways attack was directed at me. If I don't find a thread title interesting I too don't read it, i.e. Dinner Smells Delicious. However in this case I did read the post. After wading through a large hunk of words, that essentially said nothing, I felt I had earned the right to comment--and did.

iceman559
08-18-2011, 06:45 AM
I think that APs can be both beneificial and detrimental to attendence at the same time. For instance, it can be beneficial because someone with an AP can be a lot less likely to go on super duper crowded days (assuming they are close enough to drive and not have to get lodging, etc.), because they can go (practically) any other time they want. I know I wouldn't go on a day where it's absolutely 100% packed if I can wait a bit and go when it's not. However, it can be detrimental in that people with APs (same restriction as above) are probably more likely to be willing to stand in the lines, because they can come back another time if they want to. Tourists who have to get the "you have five days that must be used within 14 days of the first visit" tickets and that have to get lodging and travel arrangements, don't have either of those luxuries, and typically are restricted to their 5 consecutive days.

Granted, there are going to be plenty of AP holders that don't fit into either category, I just figured I'd bring it up and see what anyone else thinks. Personally, I'd like to see them provide discounts during the off-season months, but that's only because that's when I go and I would love to save money. ;) Of course, that'd mean I'd actually have to share ride vehicles with other people....yuck! :P

MadasaHatter
08-18-2011, 08:12 AM
Nope Old Man. You only wrote "Huh?" The purest definition of Huh to mean is "What do you mean?"

OH WAIT, so maybe I sort of mean you as I look back ....it was Teddi who said OH GOOD LORD IT'S JUST A THREAD .......etc. and I thought Teddi was stating the obvious but upon reading further it appears that they are responding to you but that wasn't very clear at first. OF COURSE everyone can have an opinion on ANYTHING but I see loads of folks commenting on how they aren't interested in the thread or don't really participate in the DISCUSSION and I see MANY MANY MANY times the administrators settling fights because folks don't stay on topic....oops......that is now me....but in all honesty OLD MAN.....I always dig your comments.....comment AWAY....wheeeeee

The old man
08-18-2011, 10:56 AM
MadasaHatter, I am bowing to you. Off to find another topic to make trouble..er, comment in.

ShelbyH
08-18-2011, 01:59 PM
I think that APs can be both beneificial and detrimental to attendence at the same time. For instance, it can be beneficial because someone with an AP can be a lot less likely to go on super duper crowded days (assuming they are close enough to drive and not have to get lodging, etc.), because they can go (practically) any other time they want. I know I wouldn't go on a day where it's absolutely 100% packed if I can wait a bit and go when it's not. However, it can be detrimental in that people with APs (same restriction as above) are probably more likely to be willing to stand in the lines, because they can come back another time if they want to. Tourists who have to get the "you have five days that must be used within 14 days of the first visit" tickets and that have to get lodging and travel arrangements, don't have either of those luxuries, and typically are restricted to their 5 consecutive days.
Did you mean less likely to stand in line? Because I know that I, and all of the other locals I know with APs, are pretty intolerant of lines. Why wait when I can come back on a Tuesday in February and ride it 7 times in a row?


Granted, there are going to be plenty of AP holders that don't fit into either category, I just figured I'd bring it up and see what anyone else thinks. Personally, I'd like to see them provide discounts during the off-season months, but that's only because that's when I go and I would love to save money. ;) Of course, that'd mean I'd actually have to share ride vehicles with other people....yuck! :P
I think the idea of off-season pricing is interesting, however, there already is off-season pricing for hotel rooms and it's still, you know, off-season crowds. Park tickets are only part of the cost of a vacation if you're from out of town. Paying for a hotel at half the price than it would be in the summer is significant savings, even if the park ticket price hasn't changed. And essentially, the Southern California Select AP really IS just an off-season discount pass for locals. With the number of blockout dates, particularly weekends, people with the SoCal Select passes are essentially prevented from entering during nearly all of the busy days. I don't know how popular that pass is, but that basically is its function. Really, at the end of the day, what makes the off-season the off-season is the traditional school calendar. Families make up the bulk of park guests and many parents are loathe to pull their kids out of school for a week to visit Disneyland, even if it's cheaper than the summer (which it already is). Unless that changes, you're still going to see the lull.

WDW does offer a no-expiration park ticket option that I find very interesting. It varies according to the number of days you buy, but it looks like across the board, they charge roughly an additional 15% for the no expiration option. WDW also upcharges for the parkhopper option, so that's two additional charges you can add to your base ticket. That would be an interesting thought for DLR once DCA is advanced enough to justify a single-park ticket.

curtsinore
08-18-2011, 02:58 PM
I have never visited in June, July or August. Have done October twice, 2000 and 2003 right when it was being labeled Utah Month.

So my hypohthesis is this, that the 2nd quarter record may be in part that folks didn't visit in 2009 or 2010 because the "sky is falling, be wise with your money". The ceiling didn't fall, so families that planned for 2009 and 2010 visited this summer along with families that planned for 2011.

My second hypothesis is that those visitors of 2011 came unprepared to tour the park and as a consequence added to the congestion of Star Tours opening. After reading the trip report of Chris001 my observation is that the large family visit was good and barely encountered large crowds though it is mentioned when crowd swells began around 10:00 but they were prepared for that swell with FP in hand and other activities.

I am currently helping a family plan their days, hours, FP collections, handicap solutions, fear of rides, and value of mid day breaks from the park for a 5 day trip next week. The mother is interested in the daily schedule but the husband rolls his eyes as though no plan is actually needed. Its their first visit in 16 years. What if 2011 summer was full of families who show up and ask "Now what?" If that is the case, then the new Frontier for DLR is electronic planning, how can TDA help new visitors transition from hour to hour. That when a family enters a park, a kiosk with electronic displays that demonstrate how to use visitor owned hand held devices in Disneyland to improve their visit in the parks or have a CM actually use real time planning for an arriving family on what the day could look like for FPs, shows and wait times. These kiosks could be made available with CMs to instruct or give advice to infrequent visitors. Because the family I am helping now had no strong intention to visit DCA, had no concept of park hopping fireworks, parades, shows, etc. And next week is the only week they would choose to visit. No matter what off season pricing, separate park tickets or rides available, their choice is this summer week. Electronic planning is the new frontier if 2012 exceeds 2011.

bumblebeeonarose
08-18-2011, 03:09 PM
OT--Read Shelby's blog, she's very amusing!

Because of the philosophy that both WDW and DL are the same company now (didn't realize they weren't before), I could see them making some kind of Magic Your Way Ticket (believe that is what they call it at WDW). But I would think that an AP is still an AP. They don't have an AP at WDW with no park hopping option. When I read the idea of a no park hopping possibility for APs, I took it as you could only go to one park for the day, not as you have to choose which park to have an AP for. The latter would make NO sense at all. Personally, I think park hopping is a good touring idea. If I'm going on an Early Entry day I may want to sleep in and go to DCA first, since I'm already late for DL by the time I can enter. I still want to go to DL that day though, and would hop over later. If they took that option away from me, that would change the way I played. However, I don't think it would decrease attendance in Disneyland. If I'm there for three days, I'd spend 2 in Disneyland and 1 in DCA. If I was only there for one day, it'd have to be Disneyland. Plenty of regular guests do not parkhop though, and they may like the option to not have to pay for it. My mom was irritated with my husband and I for wanting to go to DCA every day (just a few hours each day). She said we waisted time walking between parks. She also thinks we waisted time getting FPs...so you may not want to go by her thoughts.

ShelbyH
08-18-2011, 09:34 PM
Thank you Bumblebeeonarose!!

And heh about your mom and her opinion of FPs ;). I do think that the One Disney change (WDW + DLR = One Disney) is really in name only. I just don't see WDW, DL and Disneyland Paris (which are One Disney) being run the same way. I personally like to park hop for food at DCA, as I like the restaurants better over there, so that's not just people in the park, but money spent too! I this Carsland is going to be a game-changer though. I really would be surprised if they made any big changes before they get a feel for how Carsland acts as a draw to DCA.

iceman559
08-19-2011, 05:46 AM
Did you mean less likely to stand in line? Because I know that I, and all of the other locals I know with APs, are pretty intolerant of lines. Why wait when I can come back on a Tuesday in February and ride it 7 times in a row?

I should have phrased that differently. I should have said "can be more likely to be willing to stand in lines". The first part of my post is what address the being less likely to tolerate crowds/lines.

I was just basing my opinions off of two things.

1) The fact that I personally would hate to stand in lines, and if I had an AP, I'd restrict myself to only going on non-crowded days.

2) We had a family friend who had an AP a while back, and she'd just go in every day after work and people watch and stand in lines for rides and do like 2-3 rides each night before heading out. She told us the lines didn't bother her as much since she knew she was going to be coming back again anyway.



Regarding the record attendance, I'm sure Star Tours certainly had something to do with that. After all, it DID open in early June ;) If I could have gotten off work then, I certainly would have been there to see it.



Regarding One Disney, I believe it SHOULD be in name only. I think it's stupid that they even try to operate all of the parks as one. The parks are different, and should be treated as such. Something that is popular in Disneyland shouldn't be removed because it wasn't in Florida. If the people visiting DLR like it, leave it! I don't remember if it was on here or another site, but I remember reading about how they removed the Create-Your-Own Mickey Mouse Ears from Disneyland because they had such bad problems with losses in Florida, even though it was going great at Disneyland. There was also some mention about some sweet or other bakery/confectionary treat that they stopped making at DLR because it wasn't selling well in WDW. I think it's stupid, but they are clearly trying to slowly make the parks as identical as possible without ripping everything out and turning them into clones.

DwarfPlanet
08-19-2011, 05:55 AM
We're not AP holders. We only go during off season timeframes so not sure how it would affect us.

ShelbyH
08-19-2011, 01:54 PM
Ah, got it, Iceman :D


We're not AP holders. We only go during off season timeframes so not sure how it would affect us.

Potential changes to regular tickets as well, like off-season pricing or bigger upcharge costs (eg. if Carsland is a huge draw and DCA becomes a viable single-day park, I think it would be likely to see an increase in the parkhopper option).