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Dean Higgins
06-09-2003, 09:27 AM
Tomorrowland was an idea Walt had to show us a peek into the future. At the time, we talked of maybe one day going to the Moon (Mission to the moon)... and later maybe going to mars (Mission to mars). We talked about the big interstates that would one day traverse the nation (Autopia). We talked about monorails and peoplemovers that would make urban travel more efficient... and also one day exploring the undiscovered regions of the ocean (Submarine Voyage). All of these ideas (including Monsanto's Home of the future) were speculations of life in the future. You could basically see the land of tomorrow today in "Tomorrowland".

So what happened? Now we have a history of space exploration exhibit. We have STAR TOURS which is based on a fiction-fantasy of the past ("Long time ago in a galaxy far away"). Autopia and its idea of super-highways is a realized idea and no longer indicitive of "tomorrow".

So what the heck does a target game based on a ficitional Space action-figure have to do with "TOMORROW"?

crc9998
06-09-2003, 09:33 AM
Well, since in the Toy Story movie, Buzz was a "future" toy...so they must feel that he fits in, in the "future" land?

Tref
06-09-2003, 09:46 AM
To-morrow isn't everything it once was, my friend. On the other hand, Buzz Lightyear is a fun ride. I don't think DL could do those sort of rides anymore. Future speculation is not what it was 50 years ago. Then it was all about transportation, trips to the moon and the growth of cities. To-day, a gaze into the future will reveal micro chips, conservation, holes in the sky and food production -- not exactly the type of things that will look good when dressed up for a dark ride. Unless of course the name of the park is EPCOT, dig?
Your To-morrowland still exists, just no longer in Anahiem.

tod
06-09-2003, 10:16 AM
1. Tomorrow got away from us. Originally, Tomorrowland was set in the faraway future of 1985. That was ditched by 1967, when the New Tomorrowland project brought us the PeopleMover, Space Mountain, and the Carousel of Progress. Fantasy, adventure, the frontier all stay comfortably in the past or separate from contemporary reality. Not tomorrow(land).

2. Disneyland got caught in the Orlando-centric attitude of the Parks and Resorts division -- which is, let's face it, our old friend East Coast Arrogance with mouse ears on -- which builds gigantic new attractions in Florida and calls a paint job in Anaheim a "New Tomorrowland."

3. Whatsisname -- that Disney Stores guy -- whose practice of malign neglect in maintenance and keeping attractions running took a particular toll on Tomorrowland.

4. The good idea somebody at Imagineering had to set the Tomorrowland at Paris Disneyland in the Jules Verne past, offering an alternative look at the future from the past. This was a good idea in Paris because with Verne you have French content and also you are scratch-building a new place from the ground up. It does not work well when you try to retrofit a standing Tomorrowland to fit a new paradigm.

And oh by the way... Buzz Lightyear, Space Ranger fits as well in Tomorrowland as Fess Parker in his Davy Crockett outfit did in Frontierland.

--T

Dean Higgins
06-09-2003, 10:36 AM
The name TOMORROWLAND does not fit anymore. They need to change it to "Outer-Space Land" because that is basically what is has become. It has become a parody of itself with all of its nods to the retro-space look. That's why they brought back that old rocket. They gave up and don't care about it making sense anymore.

That area is the most dis-jointed, mis-named, abandoned and neglected part of DL by a mile.

GeminiAngel
06-09-2003, 11:13 AM
Let's just hope they don't try to change the name of the land sometime in the future. I hope they get it back on track

lazyboy97O
06-09-2003, 11:24 AM
I agree with Tref. A true Tomorrowland would be very boring and a lot like Future World at Epcot. The trouble with Tomorrowland is finding a way of making it look futuristic while not being boring. Many have said they want a retro future in which it is all about transportaion. I really liked the way they did Tomorrowland at TMK.

Also, STAR TOURs still fits into Tomorrowland. While STAR WARS takes place "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." we have no idea of when the story is being told. STAR WARS could be the future, just being told farther into the future.

DivaPrincess
06-09-2003, 12:02 PM
I would hate to have Tomorrowland represent our contemporary vision of the future.

It seems to me, in the past when Tommorowland first opened, the people of the time looked to the future with rose colored glasses. They imagined so much for us in the year 1985, all peaceful and effortless. And, so much stock was put in space travel, living and exploration that it is easy to understand why Tomorrowland has explanded on the space travel theme.

Granted, 1985 was a lot more convenient than say, 1960, but no floating cars or living in space. The vision of the future that inspired Tommorowland no longer exists.

Today, when we look at our pop culture vision of the future by examining the media set in the future, we mostly see a futuristic world of despair, chaos, violence and poverty. Anybody for a Dark Angel or Minority Report theme? Mmmm- Soilent Green could be fun! Free snacks for everyone! (OK, so that's not so modern, and disgusting, but I couldn't resist!)

I don't know how to fix Tomorrowland, and thank heavens it's not my job. But I, for one, would rather see Buzz Lightyear or Stitch than leave it in it's boring existence now. I also would not be opposed to it's restoration to RETRO GLORY! Bring back the white paint and Peoplemover and call it - TOMORROWLAND (The future of our past!)

Crispy
06-09-2003, 01:25 PM
I know for a while, Tokyo Disneyland was discussing changing their Tomorrowland into "Sci-Fi land." And if you think about it, that's what Tomorrowland has alsways been... and exression of the science fiction culture at the time. I've noticed if you look at the concept art of Hong Kong Disneyland's Tomorrowland, it has a very 50's retro sci-fi kind of feel to it, rather than the Discoverland Jules Verne-ish type of feel to it.

Cris

innerSpaceman
06-09-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by tod
Buzz Lightyear, Space Ranger fits as well in Tomorrowland as Fess Parker in his Davy Crockett outfit did in Frontierland.

'Cept that Davy Crockett was a real historical figure. But your point is well taken - synergistic figure that fits into the park best, um, where? In that case, Frontierland. In Buzz's case, Tomorrowland is the closest pick.

Personally, I don't agree that we have run out of exciting ideas for a tomorrowland, or that the tomorrowland of the past has caught up with us. Autopia was "todayland" from the moment it opened, but the other fantasies of old tomorrowland have not been realized and would make great attractions today.

Undersea exploration? The moribund Submarine Voyage may not do the trick, but the concept is far from being worn out. Space travel? If Mars is old hat, there's always Jupiter and Saturn. Not the same old round room with some screens and trick chairs, mind you -- but pump some real money into a convincing yet fantastical space travel ride, and it will capture the imagination of today's audiences better than Rocket to the Moon ever did in the 50's. The monorail, the peoplemover? Minor updates and, what d'ya know, these are still futuristic modes of transportation. Since 1967, has anything evolved past the train, car, plane and ship? No. The stalling of true progress in the area of transport is a boon to Disneyland, which can dress up old stand-bys and still have them be relevant to a far-off future.

Inner Space. There's still a magnificent attraction waiting to be hatched - and, hmmm, no we haven't managed to master the shrinking thing yet at the start of the 21st century. Nor are we likely to ever - hence a ride that, while sci-fi, will provide futuristic and scientific thrills for generations to come. Carousel of Progress? Well, it was successfully updated to an attraction called 'Horizons' at Epcot. Best ride they had, but they demolished it. Just as it was, it would be the one of the best attractions Tomorrowland has ever seen; updated a bit and it would be one the most magnificent E-ticket in the history of Disneyland.

The germs for a revitalized Tomorrowland are all there. And, surprise -- they lie in the heart of attractions that the Disney Co. has already developed.

cemeinke
06-09-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Dean Higgins
So what the heck does a target game based on a ficitional Space action-figure have to do with "TOMORROW"?

Becasue we don't have an oversized-toys-come-to-life-land yet, maybe in the expansion of DCA (AKA Pixarland)?

jerjer2005
06-09-2003, 08:50 PM
I fell that buzz would be a great addition to tomorrow land. With the ever growing technology it would be difficult to make an interesting land of "tomorrow" so i think its a wise move to shift to some of Disneys more futuristic characters which which will show futuristic and galactic qualities not to mention the market for the products that these characters are featured on... All around good strategic move for disney.

... although many people slam disney for there marketing and attraction marketing techinques i applaude them as no one knows how to promote like disney!

CrayZforDisney
06-11-2003, 06:59 AM
... I thought Tomorrowland was an awful idea from the start! Disney has to constantly update it. Why did Walt want a Tomorrowland, couldn't there be anymore creative ideas for what could go in there?

lazyboy97O
06-11-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by CrayZforDisney
... I thought Tomorrowland was an awful idea from the start! Disney has to constantly update it. Why did Walt want a Tomorrowland, couldn't there be anymore creative ideas for what could go in there?

Disney was futurist. He thought the future could be designed. He knew it would have to be constantly updated. However he thought that the future would bring great change in transportaion. Instead everything else has really changed. He never invisioned soemthing like the Internet or the PC. He invisioned an age of transortation, not an age of communication. Tomorrowland also grew quite a bit from original drawings. Walt loved the concept, that's why he wanted to go further and do an entire city.

femmfaerie
06-11-2003, 09:13 AM
They imagined so much for us in the year 1985, all peaceful and effortless...

Wasnt Tomorrow Land supposed to be 1997? I was there new years of '96 and at midnight they closed tomorrow land (Maybe not right at midnight, but the next day it was closed).

DisneyFan25863
06-11-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by femmfaerie
They imagined so much for us in the year 1985, all peaceful and effortless...

Wasnt Tomorrow Land supposed to be 1997? I was there new years of '96 and at midnight they closed tomorrow land (Maybe not right at midnight, but the next day it was closed).

Maybe because they needed to start on the retrofitting?

Dean Higgins
06-11-2003, 02:23 PM
I don't think Walt would have given up on the idea he originally had for this area. The post-Walt regime however did... not because they intended to, but because they missed the point. In meetings now, they brainstorm on "Space" ideas (like the pointless STAR TOURS) as if Tomorrowland was intended to be space themed. It never necessarily was. It just reflected the aspirations and dreams of the time. In the 50s/60s, going to the moon and such was the big idea. Now they have screwed up Walt's idea for this area. I'll take EPCOT anytime over the run-down ghost town they call Tomorrowland in Anaheim now.

You know I think everything really peaked in the late 60's. We went to the Moon (haven't done anything that impressive since). THE BEATLES put out some of their best work (now we have talentless crap like EMINEM's offerings) and DISNEYLAND produced its finest attractions (Pirates and Haunted Mansion). I was born in 1968 and feel cheated that I couldn't fully appreciate what was going on then. It must have been a magical time staring up at the moon that night in '69; knowing that man was on it for the first time.

DL4EVER
06-11-2003, 02:27 PM
The one thing I don't get is that if our tomorrowland wasn't as spread out and was like the WDW version, I think it would look very futuristic......The one in WDW does, even now, but ours doesn't and remember that from back when I went in 2001. I do remember going in '98 when they had just made the New new tomorrowland, repainting Space and all that jazz.....

jerm
06-11-2003, 03:44 PM
Why is Buzz not fitting for Tomorrowland?
Was Captain Eo more fitting?
What about the submarines? Those never reminded me of the future.
And finally, one of my old favorites...America sings! That had nothing to do with tomorrow, and everything to do with yesterday!

Disney Nick
06-11-2003, 04:16 PM
OT- Whether you like the music or not (were the older people at the time fond of the beatles?) you must admit that both the Beatles and Eminem are both extremely talented pop icons. Doesn't mean you have to like them, but they have definite talent that can't be replicated.

cemeinke
06-11-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Dean Higgins
It must have been a magical time staring up at the moon that night in '69; knowing that man was on it for the first time.

Yes it was. And that was a moment that really exemplified the optimism of the times and Walt's Tomorrowland. OF course Walt at the time was friends with many of the CEOs of the Hi-tech Companies of the time (and the many original sponsors). That realtionship is gone and in the post-millenial world, the future doesn't have the same mythic quality as looking to the year 2000.

I think many of the lands were based on ideas of explorations - the jungles of Adventureland, the Wild West of Frontierland, and exploring the unknowns of science and other world in Tomorrowland. It seems science has become more utilitarian than it was in the 50s and 60s and much less adventurous. Perhaps we need to identify a new Frontier to explore?

Kuzcotopia
06-11-2003, 06:55 PM
Awww fooey.

Tomorrowland was never the pure vision of a real future people make it out to be.

What was Futuristic about the Sets of 20,000 leagues under the sea? That was the past, and fiction.

What was futuristic about the Matterhorn, which USED to be in Tomorrowland?

What was futuristic about the wire-controlled model airplane show?

What's futuristic about speedboats? Cars?


I think a Space Ranger fits in better than any of these things!

JenGood008
06-11-2003, 09:56 PM
I know that this has been mentioned before, but I still think that an E-ticket Time Machine attraction of some sort would be great. It will (most likely) never really happen and it would harken back to the good old days when Walt believed that transportation was the future. I wish they could somehow cram it into the Innoventions building...maybe just because I want to see that cool spinning building put to some good use, or maybe because I just can't stand Innoventions! Maybe they could even work the RR track in somehow. Either way, I hope that they come up with a solution to the sad, desolate space that used to be filled with all of that kinetic energy. It's just sad :rolleyes:

Charles
06-12-2003, 05:49 AM
Hmm... A timetravel type thing? So, they could take the Timekeeper idea from Tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom in Orlando and add it to the Tomorrowland in California. Why not? I thought that was a great way to retain the circle-vision theatre. And it sure beat the old America the Beautiful movie. (Boy, does that date me or what)

CrayZforDisney
06-12-2003, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by femmfaerie
They imagined so much for us in the year 1985, all peaceful and effortless...

Wasnt Tomorrow Land supposed to be 1997? I was there new years of '96 and at midnight they closed tomorrow land (Maybe not right at midnight, but the next day it was closed).

ABOUT THE QUOTE: When Disneyland opened, Tomorrowland was set for 1983, the year Sally's comet would be visible again. The second Tomorrowland, in 1967, was set for years in the future when people started visiting the moon, however, in 1969, that Tomorrowland became Yesterdayland.

TO EVERYONE: So, as I stated above, Tomorrowland has changed and never kept truly with its theme. Therefore, it has become a land of nothing ( NOTHINGLAND). Jay Rasulo just wanted something in Tomorrowland that would make more crowds move there, and Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin was the solution. Enough said.