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View Full Version : Has Pirate's Lair Run Aground?



IllusionOfLife
06-25-2011, 09:40 PM
So let me start by saying, while many people were bitter about another Pirates of the Caribbean movie tie-in in Disneyland, I thought Pirate's Lair ended up being a good revitalization of an area that lost a lot of it's appeal once the lawyers started chipping away elements of it's original intent to avoid any potential injury related lawsuits.

Once upon a time Tom Sawyer's Island was really fun, but much in the same way as Toontown it was stripped down to being nothing worth taking the time to see. It needed an update and I thought Disney did some pretty neat things with Pirate's Lair. The interactivity of Dead Man's Grotto is really cool, as is finding hidden treasure in Smuggler's Cove, seeing cast members dressed as pirates roaming the island and interacting with guests was neat, the Bootstrappers were a lot of fun to watch and listen to, the Jack Sparrow show using some of the Fantasmic! tech was fun enough, and I thought the Jack Sparrow meet-and-greet was one of the best in the park.

However, on my last trip, I noticed that a lot of that life was gone. Yes, Dead Man's Grotto and Smuggler's Cove are still cool (if in need of some refurbishment), but there are no longer any pirates walking the island, the Bootstrappers have been marooned on mainland and now perform in New Orleans Square (which already has the most spontaneous entertainment this side of Main Street), the Jack Sparrow show only lasted opening season, and I am not even sure if there is still a Jack Sparrow meet-and-greet, he was noticeably absent from both the island and the showtimes guide.

So my question is, what happened? Was it just too much money to pay all those cast members to perform in a dead end area of the park, or was there some other reason to remove a big portion of the interactivity that made it cool in the first place? By removing and/or relocating all the actors who once gave the island life, it's suddenly facing the same problem that Tom Sawyer's Island had. I still enjoy going over there to take pictures and wander through Dead Man's Grotto, but it's not nearly as appealing as it was just four years ago.

Would anyone else like to see Disney bring some life back to this area of the park, or is it just too much of a dead end for any body to care?

dban3
06-26-2011, 11:08 AM
The thing about bringing characters to Pirate's Lair is probably the cost associated with them. If the attendance is decreasing over there, and it is, the castmembers that are paid to be characters can be better served in other high traffic area. I also believe there is an some kind of licensing fee associated with the Jack Sparrow character (Disney produces the movies with Jerry Bruckheimer) which is why he isn't available year round. There is also the problem that if you are at the park and do not have small kids, there really is no reason to go over there other than some initial curiosity.

I agree. They really did an excellent job with Pirate's Lair in bringing Tom Sawyer Island back to life but like a lot of things, it seems to have outlived its initial popularity. A change will probably be in order a couple of years down the rode. Someone in another post mentioned the Johnny Depp Lone Ranger film project. Maybe its time to put some frontier back in Frontierland.

Mouseketeer1955
06-26-2011, 11:36 AM
The thing about bringing characters to Pirate's Lair is probably the cost associated with them. If the attendance is decreasing over there, and it is, the castmembers that are paid to be characters can be better served in other high traffic area. I also believe there is an some kind of licensing fee associated with the Jack Sparrow character (Disney produces the movies with Jerry Bruckheimer) which is why he isn't available year round. There is also the problem that if you are at the park and do not have small kids, there really is no reason to go over there other than some initial curiosity.

I agree. They really did an excellent job with Pirate's Lair in bringing Tom Sawyer Island back to life but like a lot of things, it seems to have outlived its initial popularity. A change will probably be in order a couple of years down the rode. Someone in another post mentioned the Johnny Depp Lone Ranger film project. Maybe its time to put some frontier back in Frontierland.

If they want to really revitalize Tom Sawyer Island, they should refurbish and reopen Ft. Wilderness. As it stands, it's nothing more that a storage place. The potential for it being opened with shops and a real attraction is there, they just have to get imagineearing on it.

olegc
06-28-2011, 09:36 AM
Capt Jack, as a walkaround, was officially killed (well, removed as a character) when the Fairies took over the Hollow near the castle. There was some insider talk as well that the suits did not like the fact that young and older women alike would stalk Jack around the island. So no jack, no real crowds going to the island, no bootstrappers, etc.. And yes, I think the stage show was killed off when they decided not to pay actors and have to maintain the set. To me - this is no different than the Tiana meet and greet that was available for a while, and so on.. Special tie-ins to movies are nothing new - and the run their coarse. Once they have outlived their usefulness to bring in more people than normal (as somehow measured by marketing) the show or characters are on the block if something new comes along..

IllusionOfLife
06-28-2011, 11:00 AM
To me - this is no different than the Tiana meet and greet that was available for a while, and so on.. Special tie-ins to movies are nothing new - and the run their coarse. Once they have outlived their usefulness to bring in more people than normal (as somehow measured by marketing) the show or characters are on the block if something new comes along..

I get your point, but in my opinion it's different because they built a whole area dedicated to that series and those characters. It'd be like if they just suddenly stopped having a Tinker Bell meet and Greet in Pixie Hollow or just decided one day to stop having Mickey Mouse in the Movie Barn.

Yes, I understand that Pirates Lair is more out of the way and so fewer people go to it than go to Pixie Hollow or even Toontown, but it just seems like if you're going to build something you should continue to support it. If it outlives it's usefulness than replace it with something else.

olegc
06-28-2011, 11:33 AM
I get your point, but in my opinion it's different because they built a whole area dedicated to that series and those characters. It'd be like if they just suddenly stopped having a Tinker Bell meet and Greet in Pixie Hollow or just decided one day to stop having Mickey Mouse in the Movie Barn.

Yes, I understand that Pirates Lair is more out of the way and so fewer people go to it than go to Pixie Hollow or even Toontown, but it just seems like if you're going to build something you should continue to support it. If it outlives it's usefulness than replace it with something else.

Oh - I totally agree with your position - but in practice two things happen
1) it costs money to keep something going
2) it costs money to tear it out and replace it.

so - if it limps along with general participation and guest acceptance, it sticks around. Not that vibrant, some activity, etc. Yes - they spent a ton of inertia to build that whole area - and in management's mind it probably fulfilled its purpose. In these modern times it's not too often that they will push hard to get something done from a permanence perspective (DCA makeover not withstanding).

But you know - it goes back to the old ways of including some features and subtle touches of detail and leaving them in there for guests to discover. Aladdin's other lamp, shrunken ned, some of the things in Toontown, etc. All over the park there are imagineered touches that will just "be" and not a presented or promoted idea. To me - the Pirate's mania has died down from its heydey and the focus will be on DCA for quite a while. Yes, Pirates is (and are) still popular but it's not like it was when Dead Man's Chest came out.

dban3
06-28-2011, 09:17 PM
Oh - I totally agree with your position - but in practice two things happen
1) it costs money to keep something going
2) it costs money to tear it out and replace it.

so - if it limps along with general participation and guest acceptance, it sticks around. Not that vibrant, some activity, etc. Yes - they spent a ton of inertia to build that whole area - and in management's mind it probably fulfilled its purpose. In these modern times it's not too often that they will push hard to get something done from a permanence perspective (DCA makeover not withstanding).

But you know - it goes back to the old ways of including some features and subtle touches of detail and leaving them in there for guests to discover. Aladdin's other lamp, shrunken ned, some of the things in Toontown, etc. All over the park there are imagineered touches that will just "be" and not a presented or promoted idea. To me - the Pirate's mania has died down from its heydey and the focus will be on DCA for quite a while. Yes, Pirates is (and are) still popular but it's not like it was when Dead Man's Chest came out.

Yes.....to your original point, lest we forget, the step before imagineering, is ugh, budgeting. Pirates Lair will be have its makeover when the payback in terms of dollars generated is increased significantly to offset the cost to implement the change and add to the profit margin. Sometimes there is a miscalculation on this (Tinker Bell and Pixie Hollow).

mousecanuck
06-29-2011, 09:35 PM
They pulled the show and cast in late November/very early December 2008. I remember because we were looking forward to it and in watching these boards, learned only a day or two before we left that they would be gone. We got there December 3rd and yup - gone. Pixie Hollow had just opened (we didn't go, no real Tink fans in my kids and the line ups not worth the wait for us). Specifically, it was when the recession hit bad - and my husband was laid off December 2nd (nice!) We've survived and even managed to take a trip to WDW using some money from the settlement he received (he found work only a few months later so we didn't use much of it). My kids both enjoyed the island itself and having never seen the actual pirates didn't miss them, the photos we got were great, but it would have been nice to 'arrrrr!' along with a few, especially with my son who was still young enough at that time to get into it.

Bolivar
07-01-2011, 07:52 AM
The sweet spot for that island is 4-8 year olds. They love to run around, go through the dark tunnels, climb things... The island is perfect for all that. Younger and older kids will like all that of course, but I think primarily 4-8.

I don't think that group will be too interested in Jack Sparrow or pirate characters. I think they just want to run around the island. The movie and therefore the characters skew a bit older.

Bytebear
07-01-2011, 07:55 AM
I was very disappointed that the revamp of the island did not include a dining area. Imagine patio seating where you can overlook the river and enjoy watching the boats go by. Yes, it's a bit redundant to the Hungry Bear, but still, it would have been a draw to the island. I think the biggest reason they didn't do it, is because the island closes at dusk, and so anything on the island runs on a limited schedule. But, still, they should have at least had a snack bar in the Wilderness Fort.

olegc
07-02-2011, 12:32 PM
But, still, they should have at least had a snack bar in the Wilderness Fort.

they used to back in the 60s and maybe early 70s. brownies and lemonade is what I remember. and the gun turrets. Of course, closing everything off for safety reasons, and converting the fort into a rehearsal and costume facility, took over the need. Oh well.

cstephens
07-02-2011, 01:47 PM
they used to back in the 60s and maybe early 70s.

I know it was open in the 80s because it was the only place to get a really good cold pickle. I'd take the raft to the island just to get the good pickle.

olegc
07-02-2011, 02:09 PM
thanks - maybe that was my "I'm too cool for TSI" :-P

IllusionOfLife
07-02-2011, 08:40 PM
thanks - maybe that was my "I'm too cool for TSI" :-P

Oh we all go through that phase, lol. My brother and sister were in the thick of it on this trip.

familymemories
07-04-2011, 09:30 AM
We like to take our lunch out to Pirates Lair and sit at the picnic tables. It's relaxing and out of the way. Fun to watch the ships sail by and the people in the canoes.