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Chessur
06-05-2011, 09:27 PM
Hi everybody!

I hope it's okay to make this thread. I did search the forum and find an older, closed thread regarding flash photography on rides like Pirates and HM, but it didn't address my particular question.

In the past few years (possibly in direct correlation with the Facebook-fueled need to document every moment of our lives, but I digress), it seems like flash photography has become an even bigger problem in the Parks. Unfortunately, it seems like it is so prevalent now that the CMs rarely make an announcement while we're in the ride, although maybe they still do and I just haven't experienced it recently.

Both my mother and sister get migraine headaches, which can be triggered by bright flashes in the dark. For them, it isn't just irritating and disruptive like it is for me (and, I'm sure, for many, many other well-behaved guests) - it can literally ruin the trip. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for how to deal with it? As it is right now, they just have to spend the ride with their eyes covered if we're in the vicinity of any "flashers." I realize that there's only so much cast members or guests can do, but I thought it might be worth a try to ask, in case anybody here has dealt with a similar issue.

(As a much more serious example, my boyfriend's uncle has epilepsy, and has literally just stopped going on the rides where it's a problem, because he's so worried about triggering a seizure. :()

Chessur
06-05-2011, 09:32 PM
Also - I apologize if this should be in the "planning" part of the forum; I thought it fit better here, but I can see where it could go either way. Sorry for my ignorance - I'm still learning! :)

Mom2
06-06-2011, 02:03 AM
I can imagine that if the CM's would make the announcement every time that it might make a difference, but then again, some people will just do as they like whether it is on purpose or not. People do not pay attention, do not speak the same language, forgot about the rule or just don't care, its hard to say. Probably the only thing I could think of for your mother and sister, and boyfriends Uncle would be to ask for a private boat or "vessel" depending upon what ride it is, explaining the situation is severe for your family members. Alas, announcing this to the CM's could trigger them indicating that they could not ride the ride because many of these dark rides themselves have flashing of lights going on as part of the ambiance of the ride. There are health risks and warnings at the entrance of many rides and I believe listed in the park maps. Maybe they could try wearing sunglasses on the ride? Hope that helps.

The old man
06-06-2011, 05:07 AM
I'm afraid some people have such specialized handicaps that nothing can really be done to accommodate them. DL is full of people and people will do dumb things. I would guess half the people just ignore the "no flash" warning and the other half flash because they don't know how to turn off the flash or don't hear or understand the instructions not to flash.

fairestoneofall
06-06-2011, 05:47 AM
OP, I do like Mom2's suggestion. The CMs will make every reasonable effort to make someone with disabilities more comfortable or safe.
As for the flash problem itself, it's bugs me. When we were on POTC at WDW last month I literally had to ask this woman and the front of our boat about 5 times to stop using her flash. It totally ruined my ride experience.

Chessur
06-06-2011, 10:08 AM
Thank you all for your responses. :) I think that in the case of epilepsy, the risk clearly outweighs the pleasure of going on the rides. I will encourage my mother and sister to speak to a CM and see if they can be accommodated - otherwise we will probably use the long-standing technique of going on the ride and hoping people are considerate.

Thanks again everyone!

letshavefun
06-06-2011, 10:30 AM
We were on the train doing the entire circle and someone kept taking pictures with a flash in the tunnel areas. The CM would announce no flash photos but then flash again no flash photos, flash it was a vicious cycle and they were quick I never could see any one with a camera.

dban3
06-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Disneyland does their best with this problem that seems to get worse by year. On occasion on POTC, a voice will come over the loudspeakers to refrain from flash photography. One time a castmember came out from behind a wall in the ride and told someone to shut down a video camcorder light (now thats really rude or being ignorant). Some train conductors (usually the ones that have done it for awhile) will make additional announcements about "no flash photography" while in the Grand Canyon/Primeval World diorama. Why people try to take flash pictures through plate glass is something hard to understand. They normally don't come out very well.

The Red Head
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
I am one of those people that get migraines from flashing lights. I get annoyed when people take pictures on the dark rides. I speak up and ask them to stop. I also have to close my eyes and bury my head in my husband's shoulder when we are near strobe lights, like at concerts. I have to be more careful of what is around me and have my migraine medicine with me at all times, because I cannot control what other people do. Scents are also a trigger for me, and and cannot keep people from wearing perfumes that bother me, so I just need to keep my distance when I can.

Bytebear
06-06-2011, 02:14 PM
I understand the annoyance when experiencing a dark ride, but what about flash photography anywhere else, like on Main Street during the fireworks, or even just a family photo in front of the Partner's statue? You can't very well tell people not to take photos there.

torquedork
06-06-2011, 04:18 PM
So many people literally just don’t understand the fundamentals of how to take photos without the aid of a flash which the cameras are actually kept on Full Automatic.

To me that so many people just don’t care or think about common courtesy about other people who’s around them or even on the same ride.

This also constantly happens in theatre all the time where a recorded announcement is played about Flash Photography is Strictly Prohibited, but people still take Flash Photography where they have to be told to STOP even after the announcement had been played.

mousecanuck
06-06-2011, 06:26 PM
So many people literally just don’t understand the fundamentals of how to take photos without the aid of a flash which the cameras are actually kept on Full Automatic.

I agree; would love to see them make a point of hiding out on every third boat and also announcing it partway in (say after the first most common place people take flash pictures). Universal was quite strict about no cameras on some rides.

Teddi
06-06-2011, 07:34 PM
I wonder, if it MIGHT be doable to wear a glare reducing sunglasses even in the dark rides? I mean it certainly would make it a little harder to see, but it might help. Also, not just rides but shows, like F! and WOC (since they are outside and in huge mass crowds, it is very very hard for CMs to control) could be potentially hazardous for your family

torquedork
06-06-2011, 07:58 PM
I agree; would love to see them make a point of hiding out on every third boat and also announcing it partway in (say after the first most common place people take flash pictures). Universal was quite strict about no cameras on some rides.

So many times I really want to reach over and physically grab the camera from them and yell “EXCUSE ME WHAT PART OF NO FLASH PHOTO DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND” and then drop the camera into the water or onto the ground.
Then say how would like it when someone else starts taking "HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN SOMEONE ELSE STARTS TAKING FLASH PHOTOS WHILE YOU ARE TRYING TO ENJOY THE RIDE?"

Chessur
06-06-2011, 08:50 PM
The Red Head, I hear you. My mom (not so much my sister) is also really sensitive to scent, although I think outdoors it's less of a problem since she can garden and grow perfumed flowers as long as she doesn't bring them in the house. Fortunately, it seems like Disneyland is not a popular place to wear a ton of perfume! But I'm really sorry that you also have to essentially miss the entire ride if you've got a bunch of flashers with you.

And I agree with everyone who is just baffled by the photo-taking at all; those images probably don't even come out well. The fact that people are willing to disregard the rules and other people's comfort/sanity/safety for what will almost certainly be awful photos anyway is just unbelievably frustrating.

Outdoor photos seem not to be a problem; I assume this is because (a) you're not all in a row of boats or doombuggies where most people are facing the same way, so you're often not looking directly at the area that's getting flashed, and (b) if there's an area where there are a lot of flash photos (in front of Walt & Mickey or the Castle for example), they can just leave the area. I know that proximity is also an issue for them - it's way more problematic to have an incessant photo-taker in our boat or the one directly in front of us than to have someone three boats in front doing it.

I love mousecanuck's idea of having stealth cast members in the boats, but sadly I don't see it happening...

LOZZYPOP
06-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Hi Chessur,

Flashing lights are a huge migraine trigger for me. All I can tell you is what works for me.

There has been some research done on the use of pink tinted lenses for migraine prevention - I have a pair of very light pink tinted sunglasses. They are light enough to wear inside and actually still be able to see the interior even when dimly lit.

I personally haven't had many problems with flash photography on rides. If you read these message boards, you get the impression that it happens a lot, but in my personal experience it hasn't been too bad. Worst experience I had was someone using their smart phone during a performance of Aladdin. Very distracting and hard on the eyes. YMMV

Avoidance of strobe lights is also important. I do know that there is a portion of Fantasmic! (I think it is near the beginning of the show - I am sure someone can chime in with the timing of that particular portion) where I have to squinch my eyes shut. I don't recall having any problems with either the fireworks or World of Color.

Another trigger for me is strong sunlight. I almost always get some type of migraine headache at DL despite being extremely diligent about wearing my sunglasses. What I finally found out was that I had to combine that with shielding the top of my eyes. I don't wear hats because I can't find them to fit my big fat head. My aunt finally nagged me into buying a visor we found that fit me. Last trip, I wore the visor and my sunglasses at all times when outside. No migraine at all that trip. I could have cried with relief.

Hope that helps with your mom and sister.

Bolivar
06-07-2011, 01:42 PM
I am on the ski patrol at a ski resort and we view our role as educating guests. When someone skis dangerously or goes out of bounds, rather than view it as a time to yell at or punish the offender, it is a time to educate the person as to why what they were doing was wrong. It is easy to get annoyed at someone doing something that is so obviously wrong, but some people just don't know that it is wrong and the first step is to point that out. We take them aside and talk to them in a friendly way, not an accusatory way, explaining why they shouldn't do what they were doing.

It is surprisingly effective. More often than not teenage snowboarders who I am sure are just being punks turn out to just not have thought about what they were doing and are thankful to have it pointed out and don't do it again.

Of course we aren't fools, when we have this talk we clip a corner off their ticket and if someone else has another talk with the same person, well that ends up being a very different conversation with their ticket likely being revoked.

If Disney really wanted to stop flash photography they could take a similar approach. Just note when someone does it, and rather than doing the announcement, just pull them aside at the end of the ride for a polite conversation.

torquedork
06-07-2011, 03:43 PM
If Disney really wanted to stop flash photography they could take a similar approach. Just note when someone does it, and rather than doing the announcement, just pull them aside at the end of the ride for a polite conversation.

Disney could, but it’s going to pull way too much time from the CM from doing their normal ride duty’s or having to go add more CM to each ride just to go track down each person who was taking flash photos partly due to the fact of so many people coming and going from the ride especially getting over to the Ride Exit just to go find that person. Plus the CM could easily pull aside the wrong person my mistake way too often when the person who was taking the flash photos could easily walk by them without the CM even knowing it. Then CM’s would be missing trying to catch other people who’s doing the exact same thing as the person that they are trying to locate just to tell them to stop using the flash in the future. Most likely each person would go right back to using their flash once again partly due to the fact they so many people just don’t know how to operate their cameras especially the fundamentals.

leota's necklace
06-08-2011, 01:07 PM
Maybe I'm just brassy, but I have absolutely no problem speaking up when someone around me uses a flash when they are not supposed to, same if someone lights up a cigarette outside a smoking area. I've done it more than once (the no-flash request) in Pirates and the Manse. I'm not testy about it, just polite and matter-of-fact; I make sure to speak quietly so we aren't overheard, and say something like "excuse me, could you please not use your flash inside the ride, here? They aren't allowed and it makes it hard for me to see," or something along those lines. People are usually very nice about it and sometimes apologetic, and usually put their camera away for the duration. The ones who don't are usually punky OC teenagers who roll their eyes at me and probably run to post to Facebook on their phone as soon as we're done talking.

currence
06-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Before the general no-smoking bans and designated smoking areas were installed, I would pick up a copy of the Park map upon entering any time we planned on viewing Fantasmic. If someone chose to light up while waiting, I was reasonably quick to inform them that there was no smoking while waiting. When (as they sometimes did) they demanded I "prove it" the Park Guide was brought out and shown to them. Fortunately it didn't happen too often and only rarely did it escalate to needing a cast member's intervention.

I was trying to think if the increase in flash is due more to the "me first" attitude that doesn't care if someone else's experience is ruined as long as I'm happy or the increased prevalence of cameras the user does not know how to control. I'm still torn, but leaning towards ignorance rather than intentional rudeness.

Chessur
06-08-2011, 09:55 PM
LOZZYPOP, thank you so much for your input! I knew my family couldn't possibly be the only people affected by this. I have told them to look into pink tinted sunglasses and they're trying to find some before you leave - that's a great tip!

They both also have the direct sunlight problem, so wear hats/visors/sunglasses during the day already, and they both know Fantasmic well enough at this point to know when not to look. If one of them goes on Space Mountain with me, I just tap them to signal when the flash from the camera is coming at the end so they can cover their eyes. It seems like they have most of the "predictable" attraction-based potential triggers under control, it's just the guest-created flashes that are still problematic (the flashing necklaces and stuff that they've been selling in the carts in recent years are also a potential trigger, unfortunately). I'm really glad you seem to have found solutions that work for you! A migraine can really ruin a Disneyland day.

leota's necklace and currence, I suspect you're right and that the majority of guests are just clueless, although I think it's still unfortunate that people seem to think so little about the effect of their actions on others. If the announcement says "no flash photography," then if you don't know how to turn off the flash on your camera, just don't take pictures. Once you get outside the ride, you can figure out how to turn the flash off and go again if the photos are that important to you. The last time I was at Disneyland, we experienced several groups of people who would take flash photos of each other on dark rides, even turning around to take photos of the row behind them (which was obviously a flash directly in the face of everyone behind them). THOSE were the people whose cameras I really just wanted to smash.

I've had mixed results with asking people to stop; some people are really polite and great about it if you ask; others pretend not to hear you and some have reacted very rudely. This also only works if they're directly in front - I feel like talking loudly enough to ask someone several rows ahead to turn off their flash is ultimately just as distracting for the other guests as the flashes are.

leota's necklace
06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Yeah, at that point, if the person gets huffy and defensive and rude, I have no problem asking out loud (i.e., so others can hear) "please turn off your flash". I try to do it as quickly as possible and not in the middle of important show scenes. I figure I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking. If that doesn't work I escalate to a CM and ask if I can ride again once the flashers are gone.

I remember a ride I took on the rafts to TSI; an older teen or young twentysomething was completely clueless about her sphere of influence and, as she whipped her head back and forth as she talked animatedly, she kept whacking me right in the face with her ponytail. We were crammed together, I couldn't get away from her, and when I asked her to please cut it out she acted as though I'd told her she smelled bad or asked her to cut off her arm or something. Clueless is one thing; clueless and indignant makes me want to leave the Park before I choke someone.

shna
06-09-2011, 01:45 PM
Oooh - now see? I would have grabbed the ponytail the next time it hit me & not let go until we got to the island.

"Clearly, you are unaware of what your ponytail is doing. I'm sure you don't want to hit people in the face, but your ponytail has other ideas. Since you're unable to get it to settle down, I'll just hang on to it until we get to the island & you can have a chat with it."

torquedork
06-09-2011, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE=Chessur;1661299]LOZZYPOP, leota's necklace and currence, I suspect you're right and that the majority of guests are just clueless, although I think it's still unfortunate that people seem to think so little about the effect of their actions on others. If the announcement says "no flash photography," then if you don't know how to turn off the flash on your camera, just don't take pictures. Once you get outside the ride, you can figure out how to turn the flash off and go again if the photos are that important to you. The last time I was at Disneyland, we experienced several groups of people who would take flash photos of each other on dark rides, even turning around to take photos of the row behind them (which was obviously a flash directly in the face of everyone behind them). THOSE were the people whose cameras I really just wanted to smash.

It's more that so many people just keep their cameras on Full Automatic and they don't take the time to go sit down and read their Owners Manual just to figure out what the cameras actually can and can not do right up that these people suddenly realize they don't how to operate the most basic items such as turning off the flash.

Chessur
06-09-2011, 02:55 PM
"Clearly, you are unaware of what your ponytail is doing. I'm sure you don't want to hit people in the face, but your ponytail has other ideas. Since you're unable to get it to settle down, I'll just hang on to it until we get to the island & you can have a chat with it."

:D What a great response! Not impolite, but pointed enough to get the message across, and memorable enough to (hopefully) stick around for the next time she's in close quarters.