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MadasaHatter
06-02-2011, 09:41 AM
SO just got back from DLR (see MOST MAGICAL VISIT EVER trip report) and just realized that we never went into TT. THE DUDE and I kept saying let's go ride RRCS but never said the words TOON TOWN.

Now I know that a lot of you don't like TOONTOWN but I think it is one of the coolest and immersive lands ever. I really dig RRCS and love all the interactive stuff and the characters look great there. I think it is time for a re-do!

MICKEY and MINNIE'S HOUSE are great and of course RRCS is fine. I also think the GADGET GO COASTER is cute and a great cut your teeth on coasters for little ones. (Is GADGET still a relevant character though????)

Let's get rid of GOOFY'S HOUSE and DONALD'S BOAT and C&D TREE HOUSE and put in 3 new dark rides. Maybe brighter like ARIEL for the little ones. And very colorful.
I would love to hear your suggestions....

I would LOVELOVELOVE a Donald Duck Dark ride (or maybe attraction of other theming???? Maybe you could ride in HUEY LOUIE and DEWIE boats. How cute would that be??

How about a CHIP AND DALE ride...they seem to be rather popular.

ANd my third idea is my favorite.....A SILLY SYMPHONY ride!!! Flowers and Trees, Skeleton Dance, Music Land and end with the 3 LITTLE PIGS!! How very cool would THAT be!

Just a suggestion. After all....I am mad....

IllusionOfLife
06-02-2011, 12:12 PM
Toontown has always had a special place in my heart, and it's been especially painful to see it reduced to a mere shadow of it's former glory. Some of my earliest and fondest memories as a kid at Disneyland come from Toontown and I would be devastated if it was ever sentenced to death by bulldozer, but I agree it seriously needs some major attention.

I'd say downtown Toontown is fine as is. Roger Rabbit's Car-Toon Spin is a great attraction with the best queue in the park (in my opinion anyway), and to this day I still enjoy all the interactive and sight gags in that area, from the man hole cover (or perhaps, Toon hole) to the Toon Insurance Company which has gone out of business, it's just all really clever. Residential Toontown, needs some serious help. It's just not fun anymore, it no longer feels like a place where the characters live and play, it just feels like you're making the rounds to each PhotoPass station. As a kid there was nothing cooler than bouncing in Goofy's Bounce House *with Goofy* now, due to OSHA kids will never be able to experience that again. Chip & Dale's Treehouse is the worst, it's a complete waste of space. As for Gadget's Go-Coaster, it's definitely a good intro to roller coasters, but as you mentioned, most people don't remember who Gadget or the rest of the Rescue Rangers are anymore, particularly not the target audience of that ride.

Dark rides could be fun, but in my opinion, I'd really love to see Disney do something really interesting and groundbreaking with some kind of interactive character experience. There's been the whole living character initiative for years now with some pretty neat results, but I think it can still go further, and Toontown would be the perfect place to explore that. Also, I've had sort of a pet idea for a while, of extending the Gadget's Go-Coaster track over the top of Donald's Boat and onto Goofy's property and making a Disneyland version of the Barnstormer. Goofy is certainly a much more relevant character than Gadget is. Finally, I'd love to see them replace Chip and Dale's Treehouse with a home for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, I fell in love with the character in Epic Mickey and I'd love to see them introduce him in the parks.

I've heard rumor that long time Disney animator Burny Mattinson is working on a script for a new feature length animated film starring Mickey Mouse and Company, and when and if that is ever released it would be the perfect time to reinvent Toontown.

olegc
06-02-2011, 02:33 PM
first off - there is no space to fit 3 dark rides in the spaces for the three houses now (goofy, donald, chip/dale). I have always wondered if they have not done anything with it because there is something right behind it backstage. Not sure, though. I agree - some other character experience in order to keep that part of toontown on theme, unless they want to change things around completely. Oswald, unfortunately, will never get there because the target audience for toontown is the youngest set and they don't have any clue who oswald is, and the DIsney company won't spend the money to create that campaign. I would think they should have a space where they can do what they did for the Fan APpreciation weekends - where you can visit characters you normally don't see. and maybe one other dark ride or something to allow children to do something.

the definite lack of activities, at a dead end of the park, makes for tired parents and loose without some idea of something to do.

IllusionOfLife
06-02-2011, 03:02 PM
Oswald, unfortunately, will never get there because the target audience for toontown is the youngest set and they don't have any clue who oswald is, and the DIsney company won't spend the money to create that campaign.

And why ever wouldn't Disney invest money into Oswald? They went through the trouble of acquiring the rights from Universal several years ago, didn't they? Why would they have spent the time, money, and effort pursuing the ultimate forgotten character if all they ever planned on using him for was a role in a video game (albeit, an absolutely fantastic one) for the Wii? Besides, look at Duffy, the Disney Bear; they've been trying to force that character since 2002 purely as a gimmick to sell teddy bears.

If Duffy can work, I don't see why Oswald couldn't, especially if Disney gives him a prominent role in the aforementioned Mickey Mouse film. Disney has been saying they have plans for the character, and I don't think those were limited to Epic Mickey and a few odds and ends pieces of merchandise.

oregontraveler
06-02-2011, 03:21 PM
Given the small footprint of Toontown, I think the idea of more interactivity such as the new Dumbo queue ideas at WDW would be welcomed here to give this area new life.

olegc
06-02-2011, 03:28 PM
And why ever wouldn't Disney invest money into Oswald? They went through the trouble of acquiring the rights from Universal several years ago, didn't they? Why would they have spent the time, money, and effort pursuing the ultimate forgotten character if all they ever planned on using him for was a role in a video game (albeit, an absolutely fantastic one) for the Wii? Besides, look at Duffy, the Disney Bear; they've been trying to force that character since 2002 purely as a gimmick to sell teddy bears.

If Duffy can work, I don't see why Oswald couldn't, especially if Disney gives him a prominent role in the aforementioned Mickey Mouse film. Disney has been saying they have plans for the character, and I don't think those were limited to Epic Mickey and a few odds and ends pieces of merchandise.
[first, this is definitely OT]
To me - and that's a main point here - they spent SOME money and traded a contract of a TV sports announcer to gain Oswald's rights back without an idea of what to do with him (and I think it was more of getting rid of the Al Michaels contract than anything else). they immediately created the Disney Treasures DVD to get the core geek to spend money, but the theme park average guest is another story.

Duffy - please, that has not yet taken off for the second or third time in this country. I would not say that it "works" just yet. It still might, but so far it's not seeing the growth I think the marketing staff wanted. and finally - how long did Disney sit on the muppets before they did anything really large (like a movie - this fall finally). And those were some very well known characters.

I think you have to look at it this way - many times you want to acquire rights if the timing is right without knowing what to promote or when, simply because it seems like a good investment right now. Other times, a la Marvel, you do it right now because your butt is getting kicked in the market and every attempt you have made to grab that market has failed (boys and fanboys alike).

[back on topic]

Rufus T Firefly
06-02-2011, 04:10 PM
Sure would like to see Mickey's Philharmagic in there.

IllusionOfLife
06-02-2011, 04:15 PM
As great as I think Philharmagic is, I'd much rather see Disney do something completely new and unique rather than port over a 3D show especially since those tend to have limited repeat viewing appeal (how often do you see lines for Muppet*Vision or It's Tough to be a Bug at Disneyland?).

Tan Da Man
06-02-2011, 04:30 PM
first off - there is no space to fit 3 dark rides in the spaces for the three houses now (goofy, donald, chip/dale). I have always wondered if they have not done anything with it because there is something right behind it backstage..

Behind Toon Town there is the entertainment costuming, which also holds offices and locker rooms, and is where fireworks are shot from. Also there is the building where all the school bands and dancers go for competitions. Its literally across the street, a street that is pretty necessary, and the huge toontown mountain range you see..so there is quite literally no room to expand.

I think toontown is fine, I can go three days and never go there and be fine, but I remember being a kid and loving going to see mickeys house and all that. If anything I think they could do something with the west side, beyond mickeys house. Gadgets Go Coaster is kind of lame and super slow loading.

DizneyMommy
06-02-2011, 06:04 PM
There's also the little detail that Toontown closes early when there are fireworks due to the fact they are launched from behind the "mountains".. I think the installation of an attraction for the youngest set was smart. By the time they have to shut down, the target audience is largely falling asleep in their strollers. If they were to wipe out toon town and put in some big ticket attraction, they would have to either relocate fireworks equipment, or shut the attraction down every night during the summer - that would not go over well.

oregontraveler
06-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Behind Toon Town there is the entertainment costuming, which also holds offices and locker rooms, and is where fireworks are shot from. Also there is the building where all the school bands and dancers go for competitions. Its literally across the street, a street that is pretty necessary, and the huge toontown mountain range you see..so there is quite literally no room to expand.

A very good point. A common misconception that they could "use all that room backstage for onstage expansion" But its called backstage for a reason and this is why.

Bytebear
06-02-2011, 06:27 PM
There is room for darkrides if you build the show bldgs where the princess faire is and make an entrance under the train tracks. You could have the whole thing underground and still have the faire area above it. You could even go into the Festival of Fools area if you wanted more room.

MadasaHatter
06-02-2011, 09:06 PM
Of course there is room if you wanted to expand. THat's what I like to hear BYTEBEAR....plus look at how small of a space those dark rides take up in Fantasyland.

Tinkermommy
06-03-2011, 05:30 AM
ANd my third idea is my favorite.....A SILLY SYMPHONY ride!!!

Didn't they just re-do the swing ride at DCA with the Silly Symphony theme?

We've been subscribers to Disney's ToonTown game for yeaaaars (since it opened). For several years, we were very much into it -- going to the annual gatherings at Disney Studios, staying up late to play with our real-life adult friends; another mom and I used to play together when the kids were at school. The kids used to meet online and play for hours.

Every time we went to ToonTown at Disneyland, we looked for some connection to the game, especially merchandise. I was always amazed and disappointed that there was nothing. It seemed like a missed opportunity! (Now, only my husband plays.)

olegc
06-03-2011, 07:44 AM
There is room for darkrides if you build the show bldgs where the princess faire is and make an entrance under the train tracks. You could have the whole thing underground and still have the faire area above it. You could even go into the Festival of Fools area if you wanted more room.

do you realize how much of a cash cow the Princess Fantasy Faire is? and if you build attractions in toontown you spend the money to not only the entrances but have to dig under the train. a lot of that will require extra funding. SO not only do you have to budget the costs of building, but somehow make up the lost revenue from the PFF - and there is no way selling a few more photo ops or t-shirts will do that. Try again...

Bytebear
06-03-2011, 08:08 AM
do you realize how much of a cash cow the Princess Fantasy Faire is? and if you build attractions in toontown you spend the money to not only the entrances but have to dig under the train. a lot of that will require extra funding. SO not only do you have to budget the costs of building, but somehow make up the lost revenue from the PFF - and there is no way selling a few more photo ops or t-shirts will do that. Try again...

Wow, you sound just like Paul Pressler.

So, move FF over to the Festival of Fools area temporarily as you build the new attractions, then when they are complete, you have a space that is actually designed for the FF and not just a rethemed theater.

olegc
06-03-2011, 08:13 AM
Wow, you sound just like Paul Pressler.

you misinterpret my post. I never said I preferred it - it's just a fact of business. Disney doesn't do stuff just because it's neat, or cool, or would be great for guests. It does that with the intention of having a profitable business. And oh, btw, I think PFF was created in 2006 long after Pressler left...

IllusionOfLife
06-03-2011, 08:59 AM
Yes, Disney is a business, and so they need to be concerned about their bottom line, but do not forget what type of business they are: entertainment. As John Lasseter has said numerous times "quality is the best business plan," think about it. While the Princess Fantasy Faire probably encourages a fair amount of merchandise and PhotoPass sales, it's doing nothing to drive attendance. The reason people come to Disneyland year after year is twofold; one they want to experience a place that they've loved for all their lives, but the second reason, a very important one, is they want to come and see what is new since the last time they've been. If sales were the only goal, it'd be much cheaper to close down all the attractions and open up shops in their place, I mean, think about Fantasmic!, that show costs $30,000 every evening it's run, where are they making that money back from? There's no gift shop for Fantasmic! However, the reason Fantasmic! works is because it is a great show that people make a point of staying later in the park to see, meaning that guests are going to have more opportunity to buy meals, and snacks, and merchandise, and stupid light up crap that makes people want to shoot them on Haunted Mansion.

Driving attendance is extremely important, and not just overall attendance, but attendance to each area of the park, and right now, there's not a whole lot driving attendance back to Toontown *or* the Princess Fantasy Faire. A new attraction would mean more people coming back to that section of the park, buying food and merchandise back there, and staying in the park longer. So yes, a new attraction would most certainly make up the lost revenue from Princess Fantasy Faire, you just have to look at the bigger picture.

MadasaHatter
06-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Hmmmmm. I think Byte Bear and Illusion of Life seem to get my post. I MEANT for this to be a fun post in the style of BLUE SKY ideas. The skies the limit. I don't have any delusions that Disneyland is going to read this and build my Silly Symphony ride (maybe I am not that mad after all) so by all means DIG under the train track, swap Critter Country for ToonTown, or build a tower to the moon. I just wondered if anyone had some fun ideas or suggestions for a re-do. I love the idea of OSWALD having a house! That would be so cool!!! I saw a picture of him on the construction walls of DCA so Disney is indeed using him if only a bit. Oh and the service station on BUENA VISTA ST is called Oswald. The rabbit is back!!

So what would anyone else do to change things? Any other ideas? What characters would you like to see represented better in Toontown? If no more dark rides....what does Disney need to tackle that they haven't done before? If you don't like TOON TOWN at all what land would you build in PLACE of it. Remember the SKIES THE LIMIT. Have fun! Go for it!

olegc
06-03-2011, 09:09 AM
look, don't get me wrong. I am totally on board with wanting new attractions and driving overall attendance, and fully understand and embrace the quality aspect. However, with the money going in to DCA right now, and ST 2.0, and who knows what else may lie ahead on the horizon for Frontierland (as speculated numerous times) I think the discussion about Toontown is in its infancy and you would not see anything coming in for quite a while - 5 years minimum. Of course, if demographics change then who knows..

Here's a curveball - move Mickey's meet/greet to Main St like at WDW and change ToonTown to Marvel. Hmmm - doesn't fit you say? sure, but if we're talking Blue Sky here...

That last line is part of my overall thought - yes, we want quality attractions, long lasting themed areas we can enjoy on repeated visits, and refreshed areas from time to time. I just don't see for now how Toontown can be justified to spend dollars and refresh it now.

IllusionOfLife
06-03-2011, 09:43 AM
I agree, a Toontown makeover is not going to happen for some time. However, like the Hatter has said, this is just blue skying, and I would like to see them do something to reinvent that space in the future, possibly to tie in with the new Mickey Mouse movie that I mentioned, but again, keep in mind that that hasn't even been officially green lit and animated films take about four years to produce so it'll be a ways out before we see that.

Bytebear
06-03-2011, 10:31 AM
Not to put a reality damper on the discussion, but I think one reason no enhancements are planned for Toontown is that it closes early because of firework debris. Why make a part of the park popular if you have to close it early every night? They need to solve that issue first.

shna
06-03-2011, 11:05 AM
Only a slight derail -- but what is the purpose for putting so many things in your posts in all caps, MadasaHatter? I'm trying to figure out why you're "shouting" particular words, but I don't quite understand.

IllusionOfLife
06-03-2011, 11:58 AM
Only a slight derail -- but what is the purpose for putting so many things in your posts in all caps, MadasaHatter? I'm trying to figure out why you're "shouting" particular words, but I don't quite understand.

I may be mistaken, but I've always taken it in the same way he ends all posts with "…after all I am mad" he's playing a character, more or less, and the shouting is part of that.

trypticon
06-03-2011, 11:59 AM
As with the toon town hills in the background, I think they could add some more details either on the hills, or standing up directly behind the hills to broaden the toon world.

Why not stick Scrooge McDuck's Money Bin at the top of one ot the hills to hint that, though you're in Toon Town, Duckburg isn't very far off?

What about painting a roadway going into the hills, or over then, and behind them, erect something that hints at the tops of the large bridge leading into Saint Canard from DarkWing Duck?

If they are going to build a house for Oswald, they could keep it simple, and simply paint a house with Oswald's name on it, or something, and jam it in behind Mickey and Minnie's house to show that he was a forgotten character replaced by the likes of Mickey, himself. That would not only acknowledge him, but also poke a bit of fun at the forgotten character idea, as well as save money on not building an entire new attracktioin for him, as well as not having to make a set of costumes for his character.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surp[rised if Disneyland did away with Toon Town completely in favor of expanding Fantasy Land. They could use some more room to broaden the attractions with the new characters that have been made in the lsat, well, since the movie that has a ride in Fantasy Land. They can't stick every new ride into California Adventure, after all.

This is a very nice idea for a thread, MadasaHatter. It would be nice if some other members here could be more creative with their thinking, rather tha come into each thread with only the objective of disagreeing with the original topic in mind. There are, unfortunately, too many regular posters on this site that seem to do that, and I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it sometimes, myself.

Oh yeah, and in the attempt of messing with someone who usually offers very good and sound opinions on things, I tink they should do away with Toon Town so that they may extend the Autopia Track and make it effectively longer than the grand circle tour, in terms of distance, of Disneyland. Just imagine the thrill of racing around a set track that not only includes the existing track for Autopia, but also extends much further, with twists, turns, and long straights, offering great glimpses of many areas of the park. It would be like a more intereactive version of the People Maker, only slightly faster. When you reach the area of old Toon Town, the track could circle around itself perhaps five times, likea corck screw, before reaching the rack at the bottom that would start you on your journey back to Tomorrow Land.

Think of how many people in the park THAT ride would take out of other lines. Sure, the ride would be as slow as it is now, but with the lengthened ride, there would be more cars to drive, so the que may not have to change a whole lot.

Of course, I have not interest in creating an extended Autopia, but just imaginging them doing so, and sqquandering even greater real estate on such a thing seems kind of funny to me, and not at all an unexpected move by Disney Executives. After presenting the idea though, I do have to ask the topic creator, who's mad now?