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View Full Version : Sympathy for this guest?



goofey
05-25-2003, 02:16 AM
A guest demanded a refund for his ECV and park admission. His justification was that he didn't know and was never told about the wheelchair entrances to the attractions and simply assumed he couldn't go on them. He claimed his family went on the attractions without him until near the end of his day, when a CM at some attraction informed him of the SAP entrances. After that, he claimed he was able to go on one attraction.

Would you be sympathetic to this guest? Should the CMs that rent wheelchairs be responsible for informing guests of the SAP entrances without being asked? And if you do sympathize with him, would you refund his admission even though he spent the whole day in the park?
Or is this another "dumb guest?" After all, the ADA requires a place like DL to accomodate the disabled. And why didn't he ask sooner in his day if there was some way for him to go on attractions?

BTW this did really happen. I don't know the actual outcome, though.

jazzjunkie
05-25-2003, 02:49 AM
I don't think it's ever fair to call a guest 'dumb' without knowing more details.

What if he was an out-of-towner? How would he know that there are SAP entrances? I do think the CM who rented the ECV to him should have at least mentioned that there is such an accomodation. Seems like being helpful might be... I don't know.. his/her job?

Some things might seem eye-rollingly obvious to people who work there or who visit often. If I come from halfway across the country, or even halfway across the world, and don't have the time, energy or internet resources to do some research for my vacation, is it fair to call me dumb?

Having said that, IMO the guest shouldn't get his ticket refunded, only perhaps some kind of coupon for a discounted ECV rental for his next trip.

Polar33
05-25-2003, 02:52 AM
Every time I needed to rent a wheelchair or an ECV for a member of my party they gave us a guidebook for guests with disabilities that described the exact procedure for SAP enterance to each attraction. Come to think of it the regular maps even have nifty little icons to show which attractions can be experienced from a wheelchair and which ones you must transfer out of an ECV to experience. And all that aside, nobody noticed the signs at attraction enterances that direct you to the nearest wheelchair accessable enterance?

I think that all that right there is plenty on Disney's part. Sure they may have forgotten to hand out the guidebook for guests with disabilities, but with all the time the guest claimed to be sitting around doing nothing while the family was having fun you think they would have atleast glanced at a regular park map.

MammaSilva
05-25-2003, 05:00 AM
I have to say that 'depending' on the day, there have been times when we have not been handed a map when we walked through the gates, nor handed a guests with disabilities guide even tho we had at least one person in a wheelchair. My first trip with someone in a wheelchair is the perfect example, and at the time there was no internet to do the research available today. So while it may sound a bit 'far fetched' I can totally see this guest having that happen to them. If he didn't get into a que with his family and no one asked... why would a CM even think to mention it? Chances are he was sitting in the shade nearby... CM's who may have seen him probably assumed he was sitting off by choice, not necessarily because he didn't know any better. My first trip with a disabled guest was in 1988 and he was in a wheelchair when we went thru the gate, no guide was offered, at no time did any CM explain there were SAP's available and we didn't know to ask, the entire day the only attraction my husband went on was the Mark Twain, because the map does show the icons but the information was pretty limited and not very helpful to an inexperienced guest. So much so that now if I'm in the park and notice a guest that is 'obviously' eligible for a SAP and is sitting off a ride I tend to strike up a conversation to see if they know how to enjoy the park. We met a lovely set of grandparents who had brought their only grandson to the parks and Grandma was so frustrated because she thought Grandpa had to be able to fit in the que's in Fantasyland...

So... back to the original question, I don't think the guest should have gotten a refund in the sense of 'cash' in hand, but I don't think that it would have been overboard to offer him a comp ticket to return to the park and a voucher for an EVC rental. That way he didn't get to take advantage of the park if he was scamming, and he got an opportunity to enjoy the park to it's fullest.

Pat-n-Eil
05-25-2003, 05:45 AM
I've know quite a few disabled people - and just because their legs don't work doesn't mean their brain stopped working. They are as intelligent and resourceful a group as any other. Obviously we don't have enough information about this issue to make a truly informed judgement - like goofey mentioned - the ADA makes sure that California businesses accomodate wheelchair bound people in nearly every way.

I think people need to be responsible for some of their own information gathering. I know I've done things in life and then found out "Wow! I could have done this all along" and though it makes me feel stupid that I didn't think of it earlier - I have nobody to blame but myself.

1. Was this guest a foreigner?
2. Was his whole party unfamiliar with Disneyland?
3. Were they only there for the 1 day?

That being said, I think Mammasilva's solution would be appropriate. A comped 2nd day. A 2-minute retraining of the CMs who issue wheelchairs or ECVs and we're there. Obviously the "potential" bad publicity is not worth a 1 day ticket fee..

EandCDad
05-25-2003, 06:52 AM
Although it seems like the guy should have asked something like "what rides can I go in this thing" when he rented it or soon after, if the guy not knowing seemed genuine to the CM's who took his complaint, I would give him another day. I wouldn't refund the use of the ECV, he used it.

Reading this, I'm not going to assume that the guest wasn't told. I've seen lots of situations where people are told things or given information and just don't seem to "hear" it for some reason.

When Indy first opened, there were CMs stationed throught the outside part of the line (the line stretched down to the Hub), with sticks to measure the height of young children to make sure they could ride. CM's were very good about noting children in parties and measuring them early on in the line. While we were still near the back, a man comes storming back past the line with a young boy. He made a comment to two CM's standing with measuring sticks about how they have a dumb system that makes a person wait for 3 hours just to find out his kid is too short to ride. He didn't wait for an answer, but after he passed by, one CM said to the other "I remember him, I tried to measure his kid, he said no."
Sometimes people just don't hear, but might as well give the guy a free day, doesn't really hurt.

goofey
05-25-2003, 11:56 AM
Very interesting replies from all of you. In defense of the CMs who rent wheelchairs (i.e. myself), many, many guests who rent wheelchairs, especially those who rent ECVs, inquire about the SAP or ask a question where the answer is to get a SAP. On a busy morning, this question might be asked almost as often as "what time do you close?" So it kinda gets assumed that someone who doesn't know will ask. Also, the stroller shop tries to give disabilities guides to everyone who rents an ECV, but when they run low, the guides are usually given to guests who ask.

Like I mentioned before, I don't know everything that happened to this guy during his day. I wasn't calling him "dumb," it was merely a suggestion I threw out for people to agree or disagree with. I try not to pass judgment on people I see for only two minutes. It's entirely possible that he or another person in his party was told about the SAP but didn't "hear" it, as EandCDad suggested. All I know is that he was sent to City Hall after yelling at a manager at the stroller shop. I don't know if his ECV was refunded (doubt it), or what City Hall did for him.

Morrigoon
05-26-2003, 11:51 AM
Are you telling me that after being there ALL day, not ONE person in his party noticed guests in wheelchairs boarding the attractions?

MammaSilva
05-26-2003, 02:54 PM
Morrigoon, if you don't have a clue and you have a person in a wheelchair or EVC it limits what you attempt to do. I've been there, done that.....so while as an experienced person I can say wow "she's got a good point", if I hadn't walked that walk but I have. If the EVC was something 'new' in their lives chances are they did the same thing 99 percent of the world do... they just didn't 'see' the wheelchairs. Everyone here on MP have a lot going for them when it comes to SAP/wheelchair issues. We discuss it pro/con on a fairly regular basis, we all are aware of the policy and assistance available. But someone who is a 'one day pass' guest who isn't necessarily a Disney fan to the extent we are may do just that... go all day and not notice the wheelchairs.

cstephens
05-26-2003, 03:56 PM
Even though I don't think he's entitled to a refund for his admission or a comp for another day, I can at least see some justification for that request. But as for the ECV rental refund, I don't see how that makes any sense at all. He got full use of the ECV, and whether or not he was able to go on any attractions while in the ECV has no bearing on his having rented and used the ECV.

I think it's part of the whole entitlement thing that I'm so against.

SzczerbiakManiac
05-27-2003, 01:34 PM
goofey wrote:
Would you be sympathetic to this guest?Nope
Should the CMs that rent wheelchairs be responsible for informing guests of the SAP entrances without being asked?Required? <shrug> Would it be a courteous (read: good PR) thing to do? Probably
is this another "dumb guest?"Bullseye!
why didn't he ask sooner in his day if there was some way for him to go on attractions?Exactly! This guy evidently had some kind of mobility issue, not blindness. He also had a voice and spoke English. I think he needs to get a frelling clue and stop blaming his ignorance on large corporations he perceives to have deep pockets. But that's just my opinion... :rolleyes:

Bill Catherall
05-27-2003, 02:13 PM
Well, it sounds like he was perfectly willing to pay full price to get in and use an ECV with the assumption that he couldn't ride the rides. But then after learning that Disney made it possible for him to ride, suddenly he's got a problem and wants his money back? It sounds to me like he was feeling mad at himself and was taking it out on the CMs. I see no justification for the request and he'd get nothing from me.