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Mansion101
11-14-2010, 10:30 AM
I think the Members of the Disneyland Band and The Flag Retreat Guards need to be replaced with younger people....... theres a reason why the All American Marching Band is popular when they are here. its because they have enegy and dont look all droopy when they march... dont get me wrong great musicians but they look like hell. and as for the Flag Retreat guards... really i use to be in the ROTC and that is just sad...they look like a mess and im sorry anyone doing a flag retreat in honor of our country should look sharp. not ...i dont even have words for what that is.

Tinkermommy
11-14-2010, 11:52 AM
anyone doing a flag retreat in honor of our country should look sharp. not ...i dont even have words for what that is.

My interpretation of your post is that the word you're looking for is "old." And I respectfully disagree with you.

I feel anyone doing a flag retreat in honor of our country should not be judged by their physical appearance or age, but by the respect and reverence with which they carry out the ceremony. I don't believe anyone could find either of those qualities lacking in the Disneyland ceremonies.

Mansion101
11-14-2010, 12:02 PM
My interpretation of your post is that the word you're looking for is "old." And I respectfully disagree with you.

I feel anyone doing a flag retreat in honor of our country should not be judged by their physical appearance or age, but by the respect and reverence with which they carry out the ceremony. I don't believe anyone could find either of those qualities lacking in the Disneyland ceremonies.

i guess, its just because ive been doing flag ceremonies and color guard for so long in both the ROTC and Military Academy, and they pretty much drill it into your head that you must look sharp and presentable when honoring your country.

Drince88
11-14-2010, 12:36 PM
When I've viewed the flag retreat ceremony, I've never seen anyone not look sharp and presentable.

What branch of the military are you serving in?

MammaSilva
11-14-2010, 12:46 PM
Based on the information in the post I dare say the OP is not serving but attending school. ROTC is generally a High School program and a military academy sounds like a prep school of sorts.

While I won't dispute that the ROTC members are trained in the military way of doing things and all military expect a color guard to be sharp when honoring the flag of our country, I disagree that this participation makes the OP an expert on all things ceremonial in regards to the flag. I have attended the flag retreat on numerous occassions and never once have I seen the CMs involved be less than awesome. I know for a fact that one prominent member of the Color Guard is a non active (I originally said former but the truth is once a Marine, always a Marine) Marine and you can see your reflection in his shoes and bounce a penny off his chest if you were so inclined, he's just that "squared away".

As for the All American Band...they play wonderfully, they don't march in Military formation but if you watch any marching band in 'relaxed march' neither do they.

I'd say the OP is entitled to an opinion as we all are, I just happen to disagree with it totally and completely.

Dizzy4DL
11-14-2010, 12:55 PM
Based on the information in the post I dare say the OP is not serving but attending school. ROTC is generally a High School program and a military academy sounds like a prep school of sorts.

While I won't dispute that the ROTC members are trained in the military way of doing things and all military expect a color guard to be sharp when honoring the flag of our country, I disagree that this participation makes the OP an expert on all things ceremonial in regards to the flag. I have attended the flag retreat on numerous occassions and never once have I seen the CMs involved be less than awesome. I know for a fact that one prominent member of the Color Guard is a non active (I originally said former but the truth is once a Marine, always a Marine) Marine and you can see your reflection in his shoes and bounce a penny off his chest if you were so inclined, he's just that "squared away".

As for the All American Band...they play wonderfully, they don't march in Military formation but if you watch any marching band in 'relaxed march' neither do they.

I'd say the OP is entitled to an opinion as we all are, I just happen to disagree with it totally and completely.

Well said, and with such grace.

houseofmouse
11-14-2010, 01:08 PM
My son did JROTC and loves the flag retreat ceremony at DL! I love watching the super super skinny guy when he clicks his heels and turns around.
As for the band that plays, wow I am sure they would love to hear your opinion. They have been at DL forever and in my own opinion I would like it stay that way. :)

Drince88
11-14-2010, 01:15 PM
ROTC is generally a High School program.
Not always. I was assuming the OP participated in the same type of ROTC program that my brother did, which resulted in him being commissioned as an Ensign in the Navy. (Around here, the High School programs are identified as JROTC or Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps. The College programs either have the abbreviation for the branch of service as a prefix, or no prefix at all. But I'm willing to concede that different parts of the country may deal with that differently.)

MammaSilva
11-14-2010, 01:26 PM
I agree with you Drince, locally the program is simply refered to as the ROTC but they have a JROTC at the middle school level at some schools. I know that the nephews were ROTC and I have an ohana niece serving right now, this is her 4th year at her High School and just to make sure I 'had it right' I called her and confirmed that her program is called ROTC. I know that the college level programs are refered to as ROTC as well.

Even if I am wrong about the school level, and the OP is in fact at the college level of the program, I still respectfully disagree with his assesment of the CM's at Disneyland that retire the colors each day. I've never seen it done with less than perfection. You don't have to be an active duty military person to honor our country and our flag ....anyone been to a Boy Scout event?

oregontraveler
11-14-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm going to agree with everyone else here. I saw at least 3 Retreats on my last trip. The Color Guard does an excellent job. I like having the Dans there
and the addition of the AACB is a bonus too. (And they are much more sedate here as opposed to the Castle sets or Train Station)

So I say keep it as it is, no changes.

Malcon10t
11-14-2010, 02:18 PM
I agree with MS (so what's new), HOM, Oregon, and Drince. I love watching Ernie in the flag retreat. One of the Dapper Dans served in the military as did the snare drummer of the band. I enjoy it as is, and just because the people involved are "old" according to the OP, I think the retreat is very respectful.

MadasaHatter
11-14-2010, 02:46 PM
Well said Mama Silva!

I have not seen the flag retreat in a while but I really dig it and think it is done very well. As for the Disneyland Band I did see them on my last trip TWICE. I was there with my MUSIC loving buddy and he knows the band leader's name. They are a touchstone with Walt's Disneyland and are all excellent musicians. Their show is heartfelt, warm, and a part of history. For some guests it is merely background music as they rush to Space Mountain and that is OK too. None of them are particularly young so the replacements will come way sooner than I care to think about. Shoot, I'm getting choked up writing this. Thanks for this thread as I will be sure to schedule more music on my next trip. This is the one thing that makes Disneyland more unique than any other theme park in the world and one of the reasons too why Main St. USA is one of my favorite lands. LOVE IT....but of course....I am mad!

Tinkermommy
11-14-2010, 03:45 PM
Reading through this thread, it occurred to me that it might have sounded like I agree with the OP's description of the flag ceremony CMs. That's not the case at all. My initial draft came across as too scolding, so I edited it -- perhaps too much.


anyone been to a Boy Scout event?

Or VFW, American Legion, or AmVets. I don't think I've ever been more moved by a flag ceremony than when it's performed by veterans of any age.

olegc
11-14-2010, 05:11 PM
All American College band - young, energy, popular music, performance, summer

Disneyland Band - tradition, favorites, themed to main st., great sound

Color Guard - tradition, focus, honor, dignity, service, celebration of other servicemen

all have their place, none should be replaced.

TRON
11-14-2010, 06:22 PM
IMPO.....I think they do just fine, they are not supposed to be as professional like Active-Duty Military. The reason I say that is because it is Main Street and it is supposed to represent the old small town feel and look and with that you would have the home town Marching Band and the Flag Retreat Guards, they would be your friends and neighbors. It is not to be as precise as a military or ROTC, it is made to be respectful and laid back at the same time. If this was an actual military ceremony then I would agree however since this is not I believe they are keeping things well within character and it is fantastically done.

Mansion101
11-15-2010, 12:21 AM
i guess i just havent seen a flag retreat unless it was a military event. i kinda wish i have seen the flag retreats so many of you talk about. the one and only one i saw at disneyland just didnt look right.

as for the band i guess i never pictured it that way, its just i was watching some videos of the band and they seemed tired and bored.

Mansion101
11-15-2010, 12:29 AM
oh as for my military status... i was in high school JROTC and then was accepted to West Point Military Academy. was doing great but i refused to join the military because of there Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.... lol and i would have made one hell of an officer lol which i would have gotten if i were to have enlisted after west point

oregontraveler
11-15-2010, 04:37 AM
I suppose with the exception of Presentation of the Colors & National Anthem at varous sporting events. I haven't seen alot of Military Flag Retreats. But based off my many viewings at DL, it is treated with repsect by the participants & viewers. I like that they include the Armed Forces Medley
with the veterans standing around the flagpole. I notice most of the younger
vets still stand at attention.

I imagine this happens more often than I see it, but they have someone on Active Duty and maybe recently come back from a tour to help out with the Color Guard.

MammaSilva
11-15-2010, 07:03 AM
OregonTraveler, I'd like to expand on your 'younger vets' often stand at attention, if you look around I think you'll see Vets of all ages and both genders standing at attention when the colors are retired. I frequently travel to the parks with a former Marine and a retired Marine (difference is one did one 'hitch' the other did over 22 years) and both of them 'snap to' when the colors are moving. No one in our group takes so much as a step when the National Anthem starts and we're in place until the colors pass us. Both of my guys salute even in street clothes. I think that it goes unnoticed because when folks are at Disneyland they are focused on the next fun thing for the most part and if someone is attending the flag ceremony they're more focused on the Color Guard and the ceremony than the folks in the outlaying areas.

My granpa was a vet, my dad is a Korean Vet,all of my uncles are Vets, My hubby is a Viet Nam Vet and all five of my siblings and two of their spouses are Vets and I have several nephews and nieces who are also and all of them stand at attention when ever there is a flag ceremony in progress be it retiring the colors at Disneyland or as they come down the street in a parade. I was taught from the time I can remember that you can do a lot of things but you can not and will not disrespect this countrys flag...it was a serious behavior modification offense in our family and that tradition is carrying on to the new ones.

Drince88
11-15-2010, 07:17 AM
OregonTraveler, I'd like to expand on your 'younger vets' often stand at attention, if you look around I think you'll see Vets of all ages and both genders standing at attention when the colors are retired.
My guess is that the 'younger vets' (who are often still active duty) are more noticable because they still have very much of the look of active duty military. You notice a very fit young person standing at attention more than an older (maybe not so fit anymore) person.

I was at DL last spring with my BIL who is an Army Vet - and I had never noticed it before, and maybe it doesn't happen often, but people came up to him and shook his hand, thanking him for his service. (And he and his older boys did the same for a Veteran in an ECV wearing a Viet Nam Vet hat.) I have to remember to do that next time I'm watching a flag retreat.

(Oregon Traveler - I like the new avatar!)

oregontraveler
11-15-2010, 07:56 AM
I certainly didn't mean to offend you Mamma, poor phrasing of words perhaps. Basically what Cathy said, those vets who come up to stand are in some form representing their service, either by saluting or standing at parade rest. I suppose on this last trip which happend to be 4th of July week, I noticed more of a formal 'stand at attention' from those who still appeared to be in service.

And yes, i did change my Avatar to reflect this thread.

Thanks to all who have and are serving this country.

MammaSilva
11-15-2010, 09:04 AM
Oh I'm sorry Oregontraveler I made you think your post offended me, it really didn't, it just gave me a window to say 'look around' and you'll see a lot of people at attention, I agree with Drince that the younger ones are probably more noticeable for the reasons she said but I was in no way offended. I think that the majority of us agree that the current Flag retreat ceremony is excellent, done with grace and respect if not the ramrod backs and cliking heels of a ceremony held on a military post.

As for the OP, everyone is entitled to an opinion I just respectfully disagree with yours on multiple levels but we'll just agree to disagree.

cvcgolf
11-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Don't mess with the band! I was there on Sunday (Rockabilly Day) and was chosen from the crowd to sing "Rudolph" with the band and we rocked that tune together on Main Street.

The band is playing hard and they don't need stiffs like you who don't appreciate the music and don't bother giving them a simple applause after each song. If you don't like the way the band looks then just walk on by and go ride the Tea Cups.

Rkkm
11-15-2010, 10:51 AM
May a 30-year Marine Corps wife (now retired) chime in? I have sat and stood through more than 40 years of military color ceremonies .. all branches, as well as those of military services in other countries in Asia and Europe. Promotions, welcoming ceremonies, funerals, honors presentations, ship, post and plane commissionings and decommissionings, service birthday celebrations, national holiday ceremonies, change of command, Presidential arrivals, war dead ceremonies and on.

So, I am very confused by the young ROTC member's criticisms. The first time I experienced the Disneyland Flag Ceremony, I was blown away by the participants' professionalism (as well as their sharpness and vigor). So much so, that I have since invited guests to view it with me. My husband agrees that it is as professional as any military-involved ceremony we have ever seen.

I was most impressed by the African American man who thanks each guest participant for his/her service to their country. Is he the retired Marine referenced in an earlier post. He is superb.

oregontraveler
11-15-2010, 12:04 PM
I was most impressed by the African American man who thanks each guest participant for his/her service to their country. Is he the retired Marine referenced in an earlier post. He is superb.

I'm pretty sure that's Ernie.

Mansion 101 seems to have clarified his OP. JROTC experience, no other opportunities to see other presentations. And he had only 'seen' the band via
you tube or other video postings. So I don't think that's a fair criticism without seeing either the DL band or AACB in summer when they are part of the Retreat.

I'm going to post some Retreat photos via Flickr later tonight.