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View Full Version : Chilled red wine, other horrors at Catal



olegc
10-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Last night some business associates of mine were attending an education conf at Convention Center and asked me where to go for a nice meal. I recommended Catal (they did not want to spend the money of Napa Rose).

Well - it was a downer experience. To start off - the red wine was served from a refrigerator. And the manager came later to say that they removed some of the wines from the humidor to let them warm up. WHAT!?! C'mon - really?

Then the service was slow, the entrees way over salted and spiced, and the dessert mediocre. Is this a one time thing for them or has it gone down quickly?

I don't know if they'll trust me again with advice. CHILLED RED WINE! Yikes. :eek:

bennette
10-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Last night some business associates of mine were attending an education conf at Convention Center and asked me where to go for a nice meal. I recommended Catal (they did not want to spend the money of Napa Rose).

Well - it was a downer experience. To start off - the red wine was served from a refrigerator. And the manager came later to say that they removed some of the wines from the humidor to let them warm up. WHAT!?! C'mon - really?

Then the service was slow, the entrees way over salted and spiced, and the dessert mediocre. Is this a one time thing for them or has it gone down quickly?

I don't know if they'll trust me again with advice. CHILLED RED WINE! Yikes. :eek:

Theoretically some reds are supposed to be served at 63 degrees. You know, cold, stone buildings in France have a chilly room temperature compared to Anaheim in October. So keeping them cooler than room temperature could be the right thing to do.

I like mine closer to 70 degrees, though. Warmer than that, and yes, I'll cool it down.

But it sounds like not a great night overall. Bummer. I hate when that happens.

BlkPearlCptn
10-14-2010, 02:10 PM
I guess I'm the heathen here. I like my wine COLD!!! Can't hardly stand it at room temperature, so I would be fine with it coming out of the fridge.

fairestoneofall
10-14-2010, 04:01 PM
Sad to hear. I was going to post about proper red wine temps, but bennette covered that. On the service note, a friend of mine walked out of Catal after waiting 45 minutes and still no food with their server nowhere to be found. I've had two great experiences there, but it sounds like service is declining there.

DL Mama
10-14-2010, 04:34 PM
I'm not sure if I'd rather have too cool red wine, or the other extreme. Several years ago at Mimi's we went to dinner after the long drive down. My glass of wine was fine, maybe a little warm (I'm sure it was actual room temp), but DH said that his wine was hot. I thought he was overreacting (he's ok with red out of the frig), but when he handed it to me the glass was physically hot, like right out of the dishwasher hot. When he complained to our server, she offered to bring him some ice to put in his wine. Yuck! When he asked for another glass of wine in a cooler (non-hot) glass she refused. Since he'd only had two small sips, it wasn't like he was trying to get a free glass. He refused to make a big deal out of it and wouldn't let me call a manager. Eventually we just went back to our room and opened a bottle we'd brought with us :)
It made it harder to enjoy our dinner, but hey, we were on our way to Disneyland!

bennette
10-14-2010, 04:56 PM
When he complained to our server, she offered to bring him some ice to put in his wine. Yuck!

They say the Italians put ice in their wine to cool it down. I know I've seen water added in the summer in Europe and just this summer I put ice in my own glass at the Trattoria in DCA when I got a glass of red that was too warm because there were 17 in our group and no way was I going to wait for the server to get me another. But I think having a server asking you to do it (in an obviously too hot glass) is pretty darn extreme!

Then again, I've never been brave enough to order a glass of wine at Mimi's. I like Mimi's a lot but there's a part of me that says it's just unrealistic for a restaurant to be affordable, serve a good breakfast, AND figure out wine. I probably would have been like your husband. LOL.

olegc
10-15-2010, 07:14 AM
I'm not sure if I'd rather have too cool red wine, or the other extreme. Several years ago at Mimi's we went to dinner after the long drive down. My glass of wine was fine, maybe a little warm (I'm sure it was actual room temp), but DH said that his wine was hot. I thought he was overreacting (he's ok with red out of the frig), but when he handed it to me the glass was physically hot, like right out of the dishwasher hot. When he complained to our server, she offered to bring him some ice to put in his wine. Yuck! When he asked for another glass of wine in a cooler (non-hot) glass she refused. Since he'd only had two small sips, it wasn't like he was trying to get a free glass. He refused to make a big deal out of it and wouldn't let me call a manager. Eventually we just went back to our room and opened a bottle we'd brought with us :)
It made it harder to enjoy our dinner, but hey, we were on our way to Disneyland!

yeah - the other extreme is not good either.

disneylandgirl
10-15-2010, 11:08 AM
When he complained to our server, she offered to bring him some ice to put in his wine. Yuck! When he asked for another glass of wine in a cooler (non-hot) glass she refused.

Ok, ice in wine? Really? And I'm sure the waitress was only doing her job when she couldn't bring another glass of wine, but that's just bad policy for the resturaunt. If someone is unsatisfied with something, you fix it - no questions asked. That's basic customer service. And who the heck is pouring the wine there??? Why would you put red wine in a hot glass? C'mon server... grab a different glass... it's not that hard...

ainsley09
10-15-2010, 02:35 PM
In Hawaii most of the red wine I was served felt chilled since the room temp there (most restaurants are open air) is so high. If they were eating on the balcony and it was warm out that could have been the case.

But I won't go back to Catal anytime soon due to the terrible service I've received there. The UVA bar is generally OK though.

twindaddy
10-15-2010, 06:57 PM
This thread makes me feel redeemed. I posted this in another thread, but I had the most horrid experience at Catal last year. I posted about it last year, and was pretty much alone at the time in my hatred of the place.

Snooty, overpriced, pretentious, just terrible. When you pay that much, any request (within reason) should be answered with "no problem". Not at Catal, they act like they are doing you some kind of favor by letting you breath the same air as them.

Only the second time in my life I left exactly NO tip.

Dang, now I am getting all riled up again.

Marox3
11-05-2010, 03:42 PM
I wish I had seen the prior posts, because I would have agreed with twindaddy. Catal is horrible. Our experience was unreal. I ordered their Prime Rib, and they served it cold. Not just cold, but rather it was never "reheated". Apparently the Roast is pre-cooked and then it's refrigerated. The piece was completed hard. I asked for the Manager, who could not (or would not) explain why this happened. If they would have at least admit an error happened (a little honesty) that would have been nice. Instead, they asked if I wanted something else, but that was out of the question. The other meals came cooked, but tasted horrible. The restaurant did not charge for the meal. It was very disappointing knowing that the Prime Rib is not freshly prepared.

Like I said, it's been a couple years and we still have no desire to go to this restaurant. :mad:

olegc
11-05-2010, 03:59 PM
i went last some 2 years ago and had a good experience (i was going a lot for a while). I must have stopped before the slide began.

DJsDaddy
11-05-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't get it - what's the big deal - I keep my box of red in the fridge all the time!

kiowa
11-06-2010, 02:21 AM
I don't get it - what's the big deal - I keep my box of red in the fridge all the time!
Most room are to hot these days around 68-70 degrees, this can heighten the taste of alcohol in the wine and make a red wine taste soupy.
There is a misconception that chilling a red wine is bad but in fact its not always a bad thing, look at Pinot Noir, Beaujolais and other wines made from the Gamay grape. You might not want to chill them as much as a white or a sparkling wine, maybe thirty minutes in the fridge/four to five minutes on ice, this will help emphasize the fruitiness of the wine.

The old man
11-08-2010, 05:03 AM
Most room are to hot these days around 68-70 degrees.

I don't know what this means. And if I correct for the spelling and grammar are you saying that the average house is too warm at 68 degrees? Only my sister, and the abominable snowman, keeps theirs in the low 60's.

Anyway I'm not sure from the OP what the temperature of the wine was. They say chilled, but also (and I don't know how they know this) that it came out of a refrigerator-which would mean it was in the low 40's. I also guess I don't know what a humidor is. The OP seems to say that it's a cold storage device for wine. I thought it was a box, or room, for storing cigars in.

Red wine should be served at cellar temperature--about 55 to 60 degrees. It will warm up pretty quickly in a glass, so it's best to start out a little low. Wine should not be served at American room temperature which I guess is usually 72 plus, and even warmer in the winter.

Our wine comes out of our wine cooler at 57 and we usually start drinking it with 15 minutes.

olegc
11-08-2010, 09:44 PM
the director of the Patina Group contacted me today. I wrote an email about my clients' experience as well as pointing to the blog (that did not help because it was such a mixed bag of comments - but he did say he was familiar with it).

regardless - they keep some wines at 55 degrees in a humidor because they can't control the overall temp in the restaurant during hot months and want to ensure that many of the expensive wines are not damaged by fluctuating temperatures. he did agree, though, that the wait staff should have been more informative and not treated the guests so poorly. He said they would work hard to correct the issues and let people know more in advance.

The old man
11-09-2010, 04:49 AM
the director of the Patina Group contacted me today. I wrote an email about my clients' experience as well as pointing to the blog (that did not help because it was such a mixed bag of comments - but he did say he was familiar with it).

regardless - they keep some wines at 55 degrees in a humidor because they can't control the overall temp in the restaurant during hot months and want to ensure that many of the expensive wines are not damaged by fluctuating temperatures. he did agree, though, that the wait staff should have been more informative and not treated the guests so poorly. He said they would work hard to correct the issues and let people know more in advance.

Still baffled. All good restaurants keep their wine in a wine refrigerator (not a regular "refrigerator") or cellar. Again, it's not a "humidor", again that's for cigars. Cigar need more humidity than bottles of wine. High humidity, at the least, will cause the labels to peel off the bottles.

He may have said it was to control the temperature in hot weather, but he was simplifying the answer. All good restaurants keep their wine around 55 degrees year round. It is the proper temperature to store wine and more importantly to age quality wine. Something it appears that your associates aren't familiar with.

olegc
11-09-2010, 08:00 AM
Still baffled. All good restaurants keep their wine in a wine refrigerator (not a regular "refrigerator") or cellar. Again, it's not a "humidor", again that's for cigars. Cigar need more humidity than bottles of wine. High humidity, at the least, will cause the labels to peel off the bottles.

He may have said it was to control the temperature in hot weather, but he was simplifying the answer. All good restaurants keep their wine around 55 degrees year round. It is the proper temperature to store wine and more importantly to age quality wine. Something it appears that your associates aren't familiar with.

well, first, I am just relaying what happened to my client. Second, the manager used the word humidor, not me. third - when the wine arrives chilled at your table, and you don't expect it to, and then the staff dismisses you for your concerns about it and wanting something different - that is a problem. and that's what happened to my clients. I can not speak to whether my associates are familiar or not - we don't pontificate on the virtues of these things. However, bad customer service is bad customer service.

The old man
11-09-2010, 08:17 AM
...the manager used the word humidor, not me.

I guess this reinforces my negative opinion of Catal. From dictionary.com:


–noun
a container or storage room for cigars or other preparations of tobacco, fitted with means for keeping the tobacco suitably moist.

At the same time you said, and I'm assuming you're expressing your opinion, "CHILLED RED WINE! Yikes." But, of course a customer should be able to get the wine at the boiling point if that's what they want. I just don't want to sit next to them!