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merlinjones
04-10-2003, 10:03 AM
Here a thought: If indeed the ridership numbers are dropping significantly on Star Tours and the relationship with Lucas has been soured (as Al and others have asserted)...

The operating and maintenence costs on Star Tours must be very high, what with all those moving parts and hydraulics and computer systems and animatronic pilots. Wouldn't the operating costs of the people eating Omnimover classic Adventure Thru Inner Space (former occupant of that building) be much cheaper?

Most of the effects on that ride were visual/optical/lighting and likely much cheaper to maintain (and certaninly cheaper to staff). Since psychedelia and shrinking and ride throughs have not really gone out of the public imagination, perhaps TDA would save money and increase ridership by restoring the old attraction. I'll bet rebuilding it is cheaper than keeping Star Tours going in the long run (especially as its tech goes further out of date).

Maybe this would be a hook to Disney's accountaneers to look into restoring Inner Space?

Tref
04-10-2003, 10:29 AM
You know, Merlin if you and Innerspace and a few others here are serious about getting the ATSP ride back -- then let's instigate a letter writing campaign OR, better, start an online petition. I know there is a site that is designed specifically for the purpose of starting petitions. Petition.com?

Who knows? You may yet get Disney's attention. And if there was ever a point in Disneyland's history when an idea like this could work --- it's now, as everything internal and external is being shook up, fired, torn down, laid off, repainted, and rebuilt.

Get to work!

I remain,

kwlundy
04-10-2003, 10:38 AM
Now, Merlin, I find it funny how you seem to be one of the biggest "complainers" when it comes to Disney not spending money on current technology and not striving to "think to the future", and yet here you are suggesting that they walk backwards and put in an old, very non-technologically-advanced (by today's standards) attraction.

Just when I thought I figured you out...

innerSpaceman
04-10-2003, 10:51 AM
Amazingly, even I would not be a big promoter of a reinstallation of the old Adventure thru Inner Space attraction. Most people would find it an embarrasing throwback with it's circa 1960's technology.

Personally, I think the concept is worthy of a multimillion dollar E-ticket. But that's not gonna happen either. And I don't think Disney will ever again open an attraction that practically encourages people to consume mind-altering substances at the Park.

Still, if anyone wants my signature on a Petition to bring back tried and true AtIS, I'm there.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 10:56 AM
>>Now, Merlin, I find it funny how you seem to be one of the biggest "complainers" when it comes to Disney not spending money on current technology and not striving to "think to the future", and yet here you are suggesting that they walk backwards and put in an old, very non-technologically-advanced (by today's standards) attraction. Just when I thought I figured you out...<<

Art, design, showmanship, immersion, story and vision doesn't have to be expensive. I am for those things more than anything (Pooh, DCA and TL 98 lack these things as well as current tech), and Inner Space had all of those qualities in spades (ST did too in its prime). A show tech upgrade would be obvious here, but still cost effective.

Also, one must understand the political status quo and be willing to work within it - - to use their perceptions to get unlikely things accomplished. Currently, they just aren't going to spend the kind of money it takes to do something spectacular and advanced like Spider-Man, so why not restore Walt's superior taste and vision to the park at least while we are waiting for positive change?

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 10:59 AM
>>Personally, I think the concept is worthy of a multimillion dollar E-ticket. <<

I so totally agree.

The question is... would you rather have Inner Space or Star Tours given the choice?

daannzzz
04-10-2003, 11:04 AM
I would personally love an updated version of Adventure Through Innerspace and agree it wouldn't have to be a huge expensive attraction to be good. Star Tours is fun but makes me sick and I prefer riding through dimentional sets as apposed to a film based attraction.

scaeagles
04-10-2003, 11:26 AM
Why does it have to be either? I'd like suggestions for something new, fun, themed well for TLand, cost effective, creative, innovative, and sized to fit the area. Anyone have ideas?

Tref
04-10-2003, 11:32 AM
I couldn't disagree more with you on this one Kw and Inner. I think for many, ATIS is a classic in same class as Pirates and the Haunted Mansion. It was a great ride that should not have been touched. Besides, who is to say that ATIS could not be updated with better special effects?

And even if they stuck with the original 60s technology, would it not -- still -- be miles ahead of the new Pooh ride? The way I see it, Disney made a horrible miscalculation when they trashed Innerspace. How many other 'lost' Disney rides are talked about as fondly and as reverently as ATIS? People still talk about this ride because it was the real thing -- it was as it was intended to be -- an authentic trip into your imagination.

I say, BRING 'ER BACK

I.r.

disneyscott
04-10-2003, 11:42 AM
My two cents is this, as a ride ST was great (at first) it was one of the first times a you wanted to wate in line to see eveything that happend in the que. All it would take to make it fun again is a new movie, and when you talk about cost it would be cheeper to put a new movie that remove and rebuild.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 12:12 PM
>>Why does it have to be either? I'd like suggestions for something new, fun, themed well for TLand, cost effective, creative, innovative, and sized to fit the area. Anyone have ideas?<<

I think they fired or demoted those guys.

The people they have in power now can't seem to design things well, attractively or with vision on a budget... and they don't have anyone who "gets it" to approve it. Too bad, but the proof is in the pudding... repeatedly (TL 98, Pooh, DCA, etc.). We have to be practical and give up on those folks and talk turkey, not blue sky. Or Dl may continue to morph into a design toilet.

So, better to get out some old plans from the visionaries and upgrade them.

Cool!

furbE95
04-10-2003, 12:56 PM
What exactly was ATIS? It was quite a bit before my time, so i honestly have no idea what you guys are talking. Can anyone explain it to a young person like myself or provide me with a link?

Madame Leota
04-10-2003, 12:59 PM
Star Tours makes me physically sick...I just can't stand the motion simulators for some reason. Sad because I love Star Wars as does my hubby but it's never a possibility for us to go on it. :(

ATIS would be such a welcome sight! What a fantastic attraction! I was just listening to the spiel yesterday and thought it was brilliant and educational...a great fit for EPCOT imho. I had forgotten how great it was...Psychedelic? Yes, but educational and highly entertaining also.

Is it just me though or does Paul Frees (the narrator) sound really menacing at times?

scaeagles
04-10-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
I think they fired or demoted those guys.

The people they have in power now can't seem to design things well, attractively or with vision on a budget... and they don't have anyone who "gets it" to approve it. Too bad, but the proof is in the pudding... repeatedly (TL 98, Pooh, DCA, etc.). We have to be practical and give up on those folks and talk turkey, not blue sky. Or Dl may continue to morph into a design toilet.


You know quality when you see it, Merlin - I am certain you MUST have some good ideas in there! I'm actually being serious. What is something new and cool?

10krbell
04-10-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by furbE95
What exactly was ATIS? It was quite a bit before my time, so i honestly have no idea what you guys are talking. Can anyone explain it to a young person like myself or provide me with a link?

Try this http://www.yesterland.com/innersp.html

Just finding the link took me through memory lane!!! Anyone else remember *always* stopping right at the giant eye watching you?

daannzzz
04-10-2003, 01:11 PM
Here is another link with more pictures and artwork.

http://www.geocities.com/oooketchup/ATIS.htm

furbE95
04-10-2003, 01:17 PM
I think it would be more cost effective to replace it with something else involving star wars. If they did it right, they would have to replace all the theming of the queue, which could cost quite a bit.

cujosr
04-10-2003, 01:25 PM
When I first saw the commercials for Star Tours, back when I was little, i wanted to go! After getting off I had really thought I had flown into space and was asking my uncle where they came out from looking for the next shuttle! This kind of feeling can only come from the mind of a child but adults can enjoy it just as much. Just suspend your disbelief. I will admit that Star Tours is in DIRE need of refubishment, but all it really needs is touch ups of the facades (including anamatronics,) some work with the hydrolics and a new film one that is a little different. The film is where Star Tours is really showing it's age using effects from over twenty years ago is a real strain on the imagination, All it needs is an update. Nice and cheap.

furbE95
04-10-2003, 01:52 PM
couldnt agree with you more cujosr

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 02:46 PM
>>You know quality when you see it, Merlin - I am certain you MUST have some good ideas in there! I'm
actually being serious. What is something new and cool?<<

You know, I would LOVE to see a ride based on Ward Kimball's "Mars and Beyond" - - which explores what imaginative lifeforms might exist on the Red Planet - - The final part with the insane cartoon aliens chasing Our Heroine is perfect for a full Animatronic ride through. The designs and ideas in that film are so cool - - and this part of the park is desperate for story and humor. It could even be a cooler version of the interactive Buzz Lightyear target game. And not at all Disney Store-ish (like Buzz). It would also fit into a reborn ultramodern Tomorrowland.

But I still feel that Inner Space provided a ride angle not covered currently, the melodramatic psychedelic shrinking experience! It truly was mind expanding. You know, 3-D glasses and effects while you ride through the props might be the new angle (like Spider-Man).


>>If they did it right, they would have to replace all the theming of the queue, which could cost quite a bit.<<

You know, the queue path for Star Tours is unchanged from the Omnimover path of Inner Space, so there is still alot of extant infrastructure to work with.

innerSpaceman
04-10-2003, 03:03 PM
Another good ATIS site, with some good ATIS links is atommobiles.com (http://www.atommobiles.com)

And -merlinjones- sure I would rather have InnerSpace than StarTours. But, as some folks wisely pointed out - it would be cheaper to stick a new film in StarTours than to rip out that whole installation and put InnerSpace back In.

Since we now can surmise that no new StarTours film is forthcoming, guess what the next cheapest solution is for the brilliant folks running Disney?

That's right - leave the attraction just as it is until it completely disintegrates. Then close the building and walk away.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 03:08 PM
>>Since we now can surmise that no new StarTours film is forthcoming, guess what the next cheapest solution is for the brilliant folks running Disney?
That's right - leave the attraction just as it is until it completely disintegrates. Then close the building and walk away.<<

Hence my suggestion. Don't I remember hearing that they have a few Omnimover systems in storage (from EPCOT?)? Start building some snowflakes, you lazy Imagineers!

innerSpaceman
04-10-2003, 03:24 PM
Nothing at Epcot ever operated on something so mundane as an Omnimover system. The whole place was a showcase for much more advanced ride systems.

The one closest to OM was Journey thru Imagination. I think that one might be available since they very intelligently gutted that hugely popular attraction, and it would make a nifty system for an updated InnerSpace attraction.

Morrigoon
04-10-2003, 03:34 PM
I think they could one-up the snowflake experience... DNA! This would be a sufficient technological update to the attraction, as well as remaining an educational experience for guests. Let's face it, for many of us, ATIS was our first experience with chemistry!

(Though I'd like to see them still use snowflakes at some point.. they were cool looking)

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 04:17 PM
>>The one closest to OM was Journey thru Imagination. I think that one might be available since they very intelligently gutted that hugely popular attraction, and it would make a nifty system for an updated InnerSpace attraction.<<

There you go, then. What did the cars look like on JII. I don't remember. Were they directional like Doom Buggies and Atomobiles?