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MonorailMan
04-09-2003, 06:10 PM
Taken From The AP Newsletter:
After the show, be sure to check out other hot
spots for tots like the new "a bug's land" (inspired by Disney/Pixar's "A Bug's Life"), "Disney's Aladdin—A Musical Spectacular," Jumpin'
Jellyfish, Redwood Creek Challenge Trail, S.S. rustworthy, "It's tough to be a Bug!," and King Triton's Carousel—just to name a few!

Is it just me, or is this a desperate cry for DCA. I mean come on, they listed like 7 things. I mean, thats about it. Oh yes, "tots" will love the loud noises for ITTBAB.

What a plea. :D :D

dsnylndmom
04-09-2003, 07:14 PM
While I totally agree that it sounds like a plea I just wanted to say that my boys both loved ITTBAB and when they saw it the first time they were 2.5 and almost 7, when we went last year my girlfriend was with us and her boys were 2.5 and 5 and they liked it too! So don't totally discount ITTBAB! That's all!:D

ESS Heckler
04-09-2003, 07:58 PM
My kids love DCA. There really is plenty of fun stuff for them to do there. The splash and play area in Bug's Land is always a highlight (after we figured out to bring extra sandals or water shoes). And being able to sit and watch them play while I enjoy an 'adult beverage' just makes everybody happy.

dsnylndmom
04-09-2003, 08:09 PM
:D I sooooo have to agree with you on the adult beverage thing! LOL It was so nice to watch the kids play in Bugs Land while sipping on a drink from Rita's Blenders! I'm right there with ya on that one! LOL

Bill Catherall
04-10-2003, 10:24 AM
My 6-year-old son likes DCA. He loves to get wet and ride rollercoasters. But my 4-year-old daughter doesn't, she hates getting wet and isn't tall enough for the rollercoasters (which she wouldn't like even if she was tall enough). She likes Soarin' and Flik's Fun Fair, but that's it for her. She'd probably like to see Muppets 3D, but we missed taking her to that last weekend.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 10:42 AM
>>I sooooo have to agree with you on the adult beverage thing! LOL It was so nice to watch the kids play in Bugs Land while sipping on a drink from Rita's Blenders! I'm right there with ya on that one! LOL<<

That's it! Walt's wish comes full circle at DCA. He really wanted to build a park where adults could sit by and get drunk while watching their kids have fun on the merry-go-round! The family then can have fun >together<!

Just think of all the reinvestment money he could have pocketed if he had just gone and bought a sixer before heading to Griffith Park with Sharon and Di.

Tref
04-10-2003, 11:50 AM
Merlin, you cad, you beat me to the punch!

Interesting quotes above, no? What clearer indication does anyone need as to how far gone current management is from Walt's original vision.

Hey folks! Its a park for tot's! Everyone else can sit down on a bench and stare. Adults, there is nothing for you to enjoy here. Nothing to share with your children. Nothing built with the entire family in mind. This is a no-Walt zone. So, please it is required that adults sit down and watch. And if the bench's are full just stand there and soak up the hot sun. Now, on the other side of the park we have built rides that you can enjoy BUT NOT YOUR KIDS, so you will have to work out the logistics of that yourself.

I.r.

innerSpaceman
04-10-2003, 12:37 PM
Hate to bust ya on this, merlin and Tref, but the strict families-together idea went out at exactly the moment that Walt himself authorized the Matterhorn Bobsleds. Something that young kids to this day must stand by while watching their parents ride. Same with such great later attractions as SpaceMtn, SplashMtn, BigThunderMtn, and IndianaJones.

Me myself, I would have fun getting drunk and then playing in the water sprays at Bugs Land. It is the best attraction at Flik's Fun Fair and I don't see any problem with parents standing by while watching their kids play - - if a half hour later kids must stand by while watching their parents play on California Screamin'.

The booze just makes it better, and it was the only brilliant stroke about DCA (the buzz makes the park bearable).

ESS Heckler
04-10-2003, 12:46 PM
Dlandmom -

Do you feel as though Merlin and Tref are trying to make us feel guilty for enjoying an adult beverage in the hallowed land of Walt?

Are they implying that we are drunkards or slackards, simply watching our children with a blank stare and slack jawed while 'under the influence'. Surely not - surely they are not so Puritanical and Calvinistic as to imply that responsible adults of legal age should not be allowed to imbibe alchohol. And while I realize that Merlin is the Keeper of Walt's Vision for these boards - I don't think Walt is spinning in his grave (or in his freezer, whichever myth you subscribe to....) and as much as I love DLR, it is not sacred ground, threatening to be tarnished forever by a few infidels having a glass of wine! (I no doubt will be removed from these boards for my heresy!)

On the other hand - at least I don't have to worry about Merlin and Tref taking the last lime for their Tecates at the beer truck ! ;)

ESS Heckler
04-10-2003, 12:48 PM
Thank you Space guy - I took so long trying to compose my message, you got there ahead of me.
(even if it was a backhanded stab at DCA ;)

scaeagles
04-10-2003, 12:57 PM
Kimkinney - Beware the keepers of the vision. They know who you are and where you live.......;)

I really don't recall Merlin or Tref's views on smoking in the park from a previous long thread, but perhaps they believe that since Walt was a chain smoker he would want children exposed to the joys of nicotine and tar, and perhaps bugs land should contain a giant cigarette butt for kids to take a big puff!:)

ESS Heckler
04-10-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by scaeagles
Kimkinney - Beware the keepers of the vision. They know who you are and where you live.......;)

I know, I know - I'm already planning my entry in the DLR Infidels Protection Program

I really don't recall Merlin or Tref's views on smoking in the park from a previous long thread, but perhaps they believe that since Walt was a chain smoker he would want children exposed to the joys of nicotine and tar, and perhaps bugs land should contain a giant cigarette butt for kids to take a big puff!:)

Touche' I couldn't have said it better myself!

Tref
04-10-2003, 01:02 PM
Inner writ'
"The booze just makes it better, and it was the only brilliant stroke about DCA (the buzz makes the park bearable)"

I hate to start a second response with a "I could disagree with you more ..." but I couldn't disagree with you more! First the Matterhorn is hardly the restrictive ride that say, Indy, is, and second, Walt would not want parents openly drinking alcohol in his park. Period. Some may complain that we are calling them all drunkards, but be reasonable folks, not everyone knows how to handle alcohol. That is just a plain ole fact of life. Disney is many things but one thing it is NOT is a place where adults sip wine whilst their children romp on Tot rides. If you think it is -- then you don't know your history. Thats a fact, too.

And yes, I do believe its sacred ground. If I didn't believe that I wouldn't be on this site.

ESS Heckler
04-10-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Tref
Inner writ'
"The booze just makes it better, and it was the only brilliant stroke about DCA (the buzz makes the park bearable)"

I hate to start a second response with a "I could disagree with you more ..." but I couldn't disagree with you more! First the Matterhorn is hardly the restrictive ride that say, Indy, is, and second, Walt would not want parents openly drinking alcohol in his park. Period. Some may complain that we are calling them all drunkards, but be reasonable folks, not everyone knows how to handle alcohol. That is just a plain ole fact of life. Disney is many things but one thing it is NOT is a place where adults sip wine whilst their children romp on Tot rides. If you think it is -- then you don't know your history. Thats a fact, too.

And yes, I do believe its sacred ground. If I didn't believe that I wouldn't be on this site.

Disneyanity??? With it's Apostles the Seven Dwarves?
Oh my goodness.
A wonderful, valued place to visit with the WHOLE family, yes - SACRED(?) No...

Tref
04-10-2003, 01:13 PM
"Touche' I couldn't have said it better myself!"

How sad.

Walt restricted the sale of smokes to one area in the park. But you know that, right?

Cigs are also responsible for his death. If Walt had had that one particular insight to his future (or his lack of one), I am sure his opinion would have changed on the sales of cigs, too.

Touche, indeed.

I.r.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 01:23 PM
Hey - - I have no judgement on the alcohol and cigarette crowd - - imbibe away, as is your freedom and right as an American! I support you.

Knock one down for me! - - Like InnerSpaceman I agree that's the only way to go at the design deficient DCA (kids or no!). Other than not going anyway.

Still, that wasn't Walt's concept, as you well know. Or the reason Disneyland was set apart from other parks...

My target was TDA and WDI for failing to conjure up compelling full family attractions like Pirates and Mansion (or even Spider-Man and Jurrassic Park) in the modern era, due to the over-emphasis on target grouping, demographics and niche marketing and bottom line low end reinvestment. Same ol' folks at the wheel. Marketing as religion is spoiling our society.

merlinjones
04-10-2003, 01:36 PM
>>Hate to bust ya on this, merlin and Tref, but the strict families-together idea went out at exactly the moment that Walt himself authorized the Matterhorn Bobsleds. Something that young kids to this day must stand by while watching their parents ride. <<

Bustin' ya back, spaceman... The 1959 DL expansion was not just Matterhorn... but Matterhorn, Monorail, Motor Boat Cruise and Submarine Voyage simultaneously! So score one ride for the teens/young adults and three for the full family all at once from Walt (none for kiddies only)! Hardly the same score.

Also, the remainder of attractions during Walt's lifetime were full family/spectacle oriented (Swiss Family, Tiki, Pirates, Small World, Lincoln, Carousel, Inner Space, Mansion etc - - Flying Saucers were an exception). We need more of those (along with the specialties).

Tref
04-10-2003, 01:40 PM
Your incorrect Merlin. It is NOT a freedom on private property. Disney has every right to allow or restrict alcohol and cigs as they please. If Disney wants to infuse DCA with that same drunk party atmosphere of an actual pier amusement park or a traveling carnival, then so be it.

Know your rights! (but also understand them)

I.r.

scaeagles
04-10-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Tref
Cigs are also responsible for his death. If Walt had had that one particular insight to his future (or his lack of one), I am sure his opinion would have changed on the sales of cigs, too.


IT WAS A JOKE, TREF!!!!!!!! You are way too serious, dude! C'mon - do you really think I was serious about a giant cigarette butt?!?!?!?!?!

Tref
04-10-2003, 02:21 PM
Sorry, I recognised it as sarcasm, used, as it often is, to mock one point while strengthing another. Ah, yes, sweet sarcasm, the method by which I have conducted many arguments myself. Tender sarcasm. Sweet, tender, precious sarcasm -- how I loathe thee! Yet without thee bitter sarcasm, I would only have half a point. I have to admit most of my attempts at sarcasm seem to go unnoticed too, which I put down to a softening of my brain, but it may have more to do with the immediacy of the web and the emotions that can sometimes get mixed into it. That, and a general all around softening of the brain.

On the other hand, I also thought you had a novel idea (the smouldering butt ride) that would at least, spark some sort of emotion from DCA visitors beyond placid indifference.

I.r.

DisneyFan25863
04-10-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Tref
And yes, I do believe its sacred ground.

I just had this vision of somone getting out of their car in the MAFPS, looking around, then jumping to the ground, and kissing it. They then look up and scream "I'm HOME!!!!!!!" They then return to kissing the ground :D :D :D :D

Tref
04-10-2003, 04:14 PM
Kimkinney writ'
"Disneyanity??? With it's Apostles the Seven Dwarves?
Oh my goodness.
A wonderful, valued place to visit with the WHOLE family, yes - SACRED(?) No..."

Why do you automatically suspect that I mean religion? Can a word have more then one meaning? 'Sacred' is often attached to religion, but so is it also with devotion, love and respect. Just because its the first definition in your dictionary does not mean that its the only ...

Sacred: Worthy of respect; venerable. Not to be profaned or violated.

DL is/was an incredible one of a kind creation. Its stands as a monument to the genius of one man and his unique vision. Now surely you don't believe that I hold religious ceremonies on its grounds, yet, I do hold the park in high esteem and I feel that its integrity is worth preserving for future generations.

I.r.

Morrigoon
04-10-2003, 04:25 PM
Getting back to the general point: "fun for the whole family" does not mean "fun for kids while parents watch", it means "fun for the WHOLE family".

As pertains to the Matterhorn, please remember that up until recently, it was the only coaster that did NOT have a height restriction. It required only that kids be at least 3 years old (out of infancy). Beyond not allowing "babies" on the rides, which is reasonable from a safety standpoint, the Matterhorn WAS a ride for the whole family.

innerSpaceman
04-10-2003, 04:40 PM
Ok, for arguments' sake, let's say the Matterhorn is fun for the whole family - - would this anti-Flik'sFair argument hold for Big Thunder? Splash? Indy? Does anyone who hates the kids-only appeal of Flik's also bemoan the non-kid-friendly rides I just mentioned?


Merlinjones: saying that the '59 expansion was ok because it included 3 full-family attractions along with the perhaps kid-frightening Matterhorn does nothing, in my most humble opinion, to further your position. Though not opened simultaneously, there are plenty of full-family attractions at DCA along with the perhaps adult-frightening Fun Fair. My point is that, if it is acceptable for Disneyland to have some attractions that do not appeal to every age group, why is it not acceptable for DCA to have the same?


Also - - has anyone ever noticed any ill-mannered or loutish guests in DCA due to the alcohol consumption going on there? I have been drunk many times at DCA (how else could I tolerate it?) and have never acted poorly or drunkenly, and have never noticed anyone else behaving that way (even when I'm sober there).

Toady The Eighth
04-10-2003, 05:02 PM
Disneyland is fun for the whole family. Small children may not be able to ride The Matterhorn anymore, but Casey Jr's Circus Train isn't really my thing either... Doesn't mean that Walt's vision of kids and parents having fun together isn't intact...


Not every ride can please everyone.. :D