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EandCDad
08-03-2001, 07:25 AM
Did anyone read David Koenig's Column (http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/darkpark.htm) about DCA and DL closing early after the summer and maybe closing one day a week. What do you think about that? I'm not sure it's such a bad thing, but we live far enough away that we don't go every day or every week, so no skin off our nose. What about the APs who live close and like to stop by regularly. What is the upside/downside of a change like this. The one problem for me is that the park could be more crowded on the days it is open.

lisap
08-03-2001, 07:37 AM
Seems like it would be tough for passholders that come after work and such--plus...closing early does not seem fair to one day ticket people who spend a pretty penny for 12 hours or so.

Closing one day out of the week is ok with me though--IF they would spend that day painting and cleaning and maintenance so attractions would not be shut down during other days.

(Haha--you would not believe what spellcheck was suggesting in place of passholders!! Shame on them. :D )

disneyhead
08-03-2001, 07:41 AM
We live in Colorado and are thinking of flying out and staying at the Grand Californian for a 3 day visit ,which would be a Sun., Mon., Tues. and cost about $2,800. I don't think I would spend that kind of money to hang out at the pool and eat at DTD for a whole day.

Doodle Duck
08-03-2001, 08:00 AM
Well...whether any of us are personally affected or no matter how we personally feel...or even if we 'feel the Mouses pain' and sympathize with the company, (barf) the last paragraph of Koenig's piece states the ugly fact behind it all.
To quote:

"Finally, an old-timer said, "I have heard the rumors from time to time. Closing either park at 6 p.m. is shafting the public because they never lower the prices. Why spend money to see either park for eight hours when during the summer, you get 16? But I wouldn't put anything past them. Bottom line is what it's all about."

mad4mky
08-03-2001, 08:17 AM
It sure makes vacationing plans for us tough. We always take the kids out of school and go down to DL during the off season. Less crowds, cooler weather. We enjoy the parks after dark...even more magical.

But, I do understand their purpose. Even WDW are seeing less crowds this year. (Darn, I went there the past two years in a row...I should've waited until this year!).

Ralph Wiggum
08-03-2001, 11:12 AM
I doubt they will not close one day a week again, but i could be wrong. I think it would cause alot of problems...for one thing, they wont advertise on tv and such that the park will be closed one day a week so you will get alot of upset people banging on the front gates. Also, passholders would be very upset for more than one reasons, some already mentioned. Would they lower the price of the passes considering that 1/7th of the off sesaon days are not available.

WizKidRyan
08-03-2001, 11:32 AM
So...What happens to us passholders? Do we get some sort of refund should they close one day a week? what about the reduced hours?
Or has Disney covered their butts in some part of the contract I might have missed?

TheMur
08-03-2001, 11:40 AM
Let's be honest. Everything that is ultimately decided upon is based upon financial decisions.

I'm all for it if they use the time to do maintenance work like they used to do.

There would be a little confusion when it is first announced (due to previously planned vacations) but soon that is all considered in family's planning.

I am curious what kind of numbers the park has regarding AP visits on weekdays during the off-season.


The Mur

Tink
08-03-2001, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Ralph Wiggum
I think it would cause alot of problems...for one thing, they wont advertise on tv and such that the park will be closed one day a week so you will get alot of upset people banging on the front gates.

It would be like Chevy Chase at Wally World in National Lampoon's Vacation movie going postal on the maintenance crew and demanding to be let in and ride the attractions.:eek:

cemeinke
08-03-2001, 01:08 PM
I don't know about other Annual Pass holders, but now that I don't have to worry about catching all the "E" ticket rides before closing, I spend allot more time in the shops and allot more of my money on all kinds of Disneyana.

Also while I live and work about 30 miles away, my wife and I still manage to meet there for dinner often enough. A 6:00 PM closing would put an end to that.

For me the reduced hours definitely will translate into less revenue I send Disney's way.

I've got to also believe that this would negatively impact Downtown Disney as well. I've yet to go there as my only destination.

Of course Disney must have the stats to show that I'm an exception (or at least not worth the marginal costs), if this is their course of action.

Doodle Duck
08-03-2001, 01:08 PM
Come on...aside from maint. issues, which worked out fine WHEN they had a big enough crew on hand even though the park WAS 7/365...what's the point? Are you telling me this company is that strapped for $$ they can't open their biz proper? What a freakin' farce.
Shaft the public/shaft the passholders and FORCE folks into the Monkey across the lot....IF this comes to pass..the appologists and cheerleaders will be all full of understanding and I'm stocking up on air sick bags. I don't buy this spin at all.
Lower pass prices? haha. Give me a break.
PLUS: If you look at the past, weekday folks have been getting screwed for years...the big shows and other ammenities (The Corps etc.) were on the weekends...are the weekday admissions less?
It's like if Universal only had WaterWorld and some other shows on weekends only, yet charged the same.
People who could only go during the week at DL have taken it in the shorts for years. The only difference is that now there is a regime that gets off on it...and 'guests' who understand the Anti-Walt's 'true concern' and bend over.
Now let the predictable replies fly.

downingfamily1
08-03-2001, 02:24 PM
We were thinking of going to Disneyland in December, but if they shorten the hours that much I'm not sure if it's worth the 12 hour drive. I thought off season hours were too short already.
Six o'clock is way to early to shut the gates. What are we supposed to do all evening if we have small children?
If Disneyland wants to be a destination resort they need to be open enough hours to make it cost effective and entertainment filled or people will go where they can get more for their money. Who goes on vacation to sit in the hotel room all evening?

Ralph Wiggum
08-03-2001, 02:43 PM
On the off-season you can get alot more done in 8 hours than you could in 12 hours in the summer, so to an extent closing early isnt as big of a rip off as one might think. 6pm is too early to be closing though. You need at least(AT LEAST) 3 hours of dark to really get the full effect of disneyland. 9 is good, 8 is alright but 6 just sucks!!

lisap
08-03-2001, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by downingfamily1

If Disneyland wants to be a destination resort they need to be open enough hours to make it cost effective and entertainment filled or people will go where they can get more for their money. Who goes on vacation to sit in the hotel room all evening?

But of course, you're forgetting all the expensive resturaunts at downtown Disney where you can spend still more money...
Cost effective? Ha. Come on down to San Diego and we'll show you a good time at Sea World, the Zoo and Legoland. And don't forget--the beach is always free!!:D

DisneylandKid
08-03-2001, 03:09 PM
They had better not be doing that! DCA's closing after 6:00 would be really bad. Friends of mine go after school all the time (which would get us there at 6:00). That's pretty much when I go to Disneyland during the school year. What would the point of having a 2park pass be? And let's not get me started on closing both parks for a whole day........

Gandalf
08-03-2001, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by EandCDad
DCA and DL closing early after the summer and maybe closing one day a week. What do you think about that? What about the APs who live close and like to stop by regularly. What is the upside/downside of a change like this. The one problem for me is that the park could be more crowded on the days it is open.
We probably won't renew our premium annual passes if Disney does cut a day or shorten their hours to 6 p.m. closing. We like to go in after work for a few hours during the week. One day we go in Disneyland and next time we go in California Adventure. We don't really care too much for the DTD dining because we usually have to run the gauntlet of smokers while we wait to eat. We actually like the ambience of the Disney Parks at night when we sit down to eat. Especially when the day shortens and the Park is lit up - Disney style. When they closed at 8 p.m. we were still able to hang out and trickle back through Main Street.
I'm guessing Disney management is hoping that DTD will still draw the crowds even with them closed so early. I don't think it will happen because a lot of the crowd is from the hotels and people visiting the Park. Who would want to spend the money to come only during the daylight hours. The rides are a definite draw but it's the magical time after dark that makes the visit.

EandCDad
08-04-2001, 05:55 AM
I would be curious to see if it made any difference in maintenance. I seriously doubt it. Although wear and tear would go down by 1/7, I don't think it would necessarily cause the maintenance budget to increase. They might move maintenance work to the day they were closed, but in order to increase it, you need to spend more money. This is an effort to cut costs.

Napsto
08-04-2001, 10:04 AM
they would be saving money by not having all the cast members working and jut having all of maitence there.

Ralph Wiggum
08-04-2001, 12:27 PM
But they would also have less money on that day because noone would be buying tickets!

Darkbeer
08-04-2001, 12:39 PM
Let's play what if.......

What do we know, that they WILL be closing DCA at 6 PM during the week after Labor Day, and that Disneyland will close earlier than the summer hours.

I have read times from 8 PM to 10 PM for closing during the week. Now, an occisional 8 PM closing could be due to a private party. I personally don't think they would close much earlier than 8 PM, so official hours would be 10-8, that's a 10 hour day, and they still would probably have the early morning opening for hotel guests once or twice a week.

As for closing the parks one day a week, let's presume that the decision was made to close DL on Mondays, and DCA on Tuesdays.

First thing, of course would be that Summer hours would be seven days a week, along with major school holidays such as Christmas and Easter. So DCA would be closed Tuesdays From Labor Day till Mid December, then in January you go back to six days till the Easter/Spring break, then seven days for a few weeks, and then back to six until June. You probably have saved 20 to 30 days of operations.

Now, with Disneyland, if it was Mondays, would they keep the park open anytime we had a three-day weekend due to a federal holiday. I presume so.
(Which might make the closed days Tues and Wed.)
Also, DL is preparing for the big Christmas Holiday make-over, and plan to start it around Halloween. Last year, especially in December they had record setting crowds, so I really doubt they would keep the park closed one day a week between Thanksgiving and New Years, and maybe even before Thanksgiving.

These leaves even less weeks the DL are closed than DCA. You ended up with labor and energy savings from the Parks being closed. But you still need to run the parking and ticket windows. (Though with less staff.) You are also running some of the support areas 7 days a week. The rides that have water need to have pumping and chemicals 7 days a week to prevent problems, etc. There would be some savings on the maintenence if they did it on the off day, due to the lack of having to fence off the area. They would still have to do some fencing even on the off day, due to OSHA rules, but wouldn't have to be as fancy. Certain things are also done easier if there is a longer period of closure. They can use noisier equipment, paint would have longer to dry, etc. The closier does also cut down on the wear and tear of the mechanical equipment, and should extend the life of those rides prior to needing repair and/or replacement.

So, the questions comes down to the Wally World issue, that is if the money saved offsets the upset vistors and the fact that while many who arrived at the park would either go to other park or spend time at Downtown Disney, many would spend less on food and merchandise, and some people would not show up, or leave when they were told the park was closed. On the other hand, people would learn about it, and reschedule the trip acordingly. (Well, if DL is closed on Wednesdays, let's go to Universal on Wed, and DL on Thursday...).

One thing is for sure, that the management has thought about this issue in the past, and will continue to think about it as long as the company asks management to keep the costs down.

My guess is they would be quicker to try it on the DCA side first, they have enough problems already on that side, that they could use it as an experiment, and found out the real reaction, instead of taking marketing surveys. (Probelms with surveys, usually management makes up the questions, which tends to make the answers slanted to the way management expects/wants to hear the answer.)

JRob2k1
08-04-2001, 12:58 PM
Good points Darkbeer!!

I can see how it would be a good idea for DL/DCA to go down once a week to stay "maintained." What i dont see is that actually happening. If they have such a strict budget now that they cant perform regular maintainence or have a full maintainence crew, how is having this day off going to change. They still have to follow that budget, and they're will still be the same amount of workers.

If they dont have the "money" to repaint the HM, then that off day is not going to all of sudden open up a cash reserve. I feel that Disney will not save as money as it would seem. Whatever park is closed for that day, the other one will be more crowded then usual for an off-day and that means usually more staff in that park.

I really dont think its going to happen because I just dont see Disney able to part with all that money that they will loose on that closed day. And if Disney really wants this dark day, "to help with maintainence" then hire a full staff like you did just a few years ago. These maintainence issues were not that big a few years ago, when general up-keep was done all the time.

But what do I know?

-JRob

wonderful
08-06-2001, 07:17 PM
Closing the parks one day a week in the off season seems like a good idea and let me tell you why:
There are MAJOR things that need to be done at DL that have been neglected for years and a whole days' work would refinish a tikki room, recolor a Toontown home, or give the sign shop time to come up with more intricately themed signage... not to mention, ultimately, reduse lengths of major rehabs... ALL major benefits to guests
PLUS, the Disney University could use these days to drive home some guest service issues with CMs who, as many have noticed, have sunk to a collective low in Disney look, morale, and "ability to make magic"...
For the Passholders who have concerns about "getting their money's worth "COME ON!!!!!!" You KNOW that pass is a steal even if you only got six months... that's why you buy it! The pass is not your deed to Disneyland for God's sake! Would it really shake up your world to find something else to do one day a week, two months out of the year???
And since I'm on the subject, I'd just like to mention to those who love to say "I spent x amount on my pass and I expect this that and the other" that for the amount you spent on your pass families from across the world came and spent that much a piece for ONE day of magic!!! It's funny, you know, some of those pointing at the Mouse as greedy, need to look at the fingers pointing back at them... and I digress
By the way, the seven day a week thing, 365 days a year was certaintly NOTHING Walt did in his time... funny I don't hear anyone hearkening to THOSE good ol' days :cool:

Mr D
08-06-2001, 07:24 PM
Personally I advocate a one day closure of each park on different days on a bi weekly basis, has anyone ever painted their house at night? If it means safer rides and less 101's then why not? Most of these terrible accidents in the last 3 years could have been prevented IF the public would allow the work to be done.

EandCDad
08-06-2001, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by wonderful
Closing the parks one day a week in the off season seems like a good idea and let me tell you why:
There are MAJOR things that need to be done at DL that have been neglected for years and a whole days' work would refinish a tikki room, recolor a Toontown home, or give the sign shop time to come up with more intricately themed signage... not to mention, ultimately, reduse lengths of major rehabs... ALL major benefits to guests


Good points wonderful. Only problem is that no one is stopping them from doing any of those things now. Although normal wear and tear would decrease slightly with a one day off, there is no reason to think that these maintenance issues have been let go because they don't have the time. They could work when the park is closed, not just at night, but early in the morning. Also, they rehab some attractions all the time. Why not just close the Tiki Room for five days and rehab if the only thing you need is time. Time is not the problem here, so more time from a day off is not the solution.

Gandalf
08-06-2001, 07:41 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wonderful
A bit from the soap box...
"Closing the parks one day a week in the off season seems like a good idea... For the Passholders who have concerns about "getting their money's worth "COME ON!!!!!!" You KNOW that pass is a steal even if you only got six months... that's why you buy it! The pass is not your deed to Disneyland for God's sake! Would it really shake up your world to find something else to do one day a week, two months out of the year??? "

Hello there, I guess my family and I are some of the evil annual passholders who have a few concerns with getting our money's worth. Yes, the AP is for 365 days a year, but we don't go every day. Our concerns are that the Park will close too early for us to visit a few times during the week when the crowds are not so massive. That is a major reason why we decided on the expense of the premium AP in the first place. If we are unable to visit occasionally during the week then the AP expense is no longer valid. More of an economical argument for a major reason, but we do love going to Disneyland and California Adventure for the magic without too big a crowd.

"And since I'm on the subject, I'd just like to mention to those who love to say "I spent x amount on my pass and I expect this that and the other" that for the amount you spent on your pass families from across the world came and spent that much a piece for ONE day of magic!!!"

Wow, I guess I'm glad that my mom and dad decided to have me here in the good ol' U.S.A. instead of across the great wide ocean. And to think there are starving children in the world who could use the money WE all spend on our visits to the Disney Parks! I guess it's all in what side of the prism you're looking through.