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Lost Boy
04-02-2003, 08:17 PM
I notice some real griping about Disneyland lately and that nothing is being done for the 50th and all that other stuff. While we wait to see how long Cynthia stays, and how long it takes Jay to get a handle on things, lets just run down what has been done now, and will be there for the 50th.

1. Small World looking fantastic and sounding better than ever.

2. King Arthur's Carrousel looks gorgeous.

3. Town Square looks like it did (vegitation wise) in 1955.

4. Haunted Mansion fixed up and looking good.

5. The Matterhorn reopened and the changes don't matter. And we got a new Yeti cave at the top of the lift.

6. The subs will be back.

7. Space Mountain will be completly redone.

8. Rivers Of America rehab going on now.

And I saw lots of new paint being applied everywhere.

The Park is sparkling right now and I am happy about that.

There is more to be done, for sure, but let's let things happen as they happen. Have a little faith in the Magic.

I know, I know. But I am tired of being so cynical about the place I love more than anything in the world. I am going to smile about Disneyland now, even if it kills me.

merlinjones
04-02-2003, 08:50 PM
You, know - - I agree with almost everything on your list. These things made my last visit to Disneyland a fun and postitive one (despite the much discussed stuff & fluff and worries for Tomorrow). Very promising. I just want them to keep it up. Thank goodness for restoration!

>>1. Small World looking fantastic and sounding better than ever.<<

What a treat. Seeing the restored facade and hearing Walt's proper musical and choral arrangements really did my heart good... I was almost teary-eyed (seriously!).

>>2. King Arthur's Carrousel looks gorgeous.<<

Looked great (except I could do without the new pink parts). Good work!

>>3. Town Square looks like it did (vegitation wise) in 1955.<<

Okay, but I think they only did this because of the old tree that fell in Frontierland. But still, it looked fine!

>>4. Haunted Mansion fixed up and looking good.<<

Great. Still... I can live without the FastPass signage cluttering the gate.

>>5. The Matterhorn reopened and the changes don't matter. And we got a new Yeti cave at the top of
the lift.<<

Excellent. And the track seemed much smoother!

>>6. The subs will be back.<<

Incredible. This will make me cry with joy! (No Pixar fish, please). Can we say Nautilus?

>>7. Space Mountain will be completly redone.<<

No Stitch, please. Don't wreck it! Paint it white!!!!

>>8. Rivers Of America rehab going on now.<<

Cool! And Tom Sawyer Island fixes!

>> And I saw lots of new paint being applied everywhere.<<

Hit those far Toontown hills, please. And whitewash Tommorow! No gold castle!

:D

innerSpaceman
04-03-2003, 06:09 AM
Sorry, Lost Boy, but I have my own gripes about most everything on your "improvement" list.

1. Small World looking fantastic and sounding better than ever.
No problems here. An unadulterated success. Best thing Disneyland's done in 10 years!

2. King Arthur's Carrousel looks gorgeous.
Not unless they've permanently removed that purple queue sunshade that blocks the view of Fantasyland from pedestrian guests and carrousel riders alike. The new roof is garish, and not nearly as attractive as the one it replaced. And I'd have been much more impressed with the restoration if it did not take 14 months to rebuild the carrousel - longer than it took to originally build all of Disneyland!!

3. Town Square looks like it did (vegitation wise) in 1955.
That's hardly a compliment. Disneyland vegitation was in a laughable state in 1955. Town Square has lost its gorgeous trees and now looks sparse and uninviting. It will be at least five years before the place has any shade or beauty.

4. Haunted Mansion fixed up and looking good.
A perfect example of fix it, leave it alone, never maintain it. The sound effects do not match up with Madame Leota's seance chants. It's been off for weeks. My prediction (based on decades of Disneyland observations): the attraction will continue to degrade for nine more months until the installation of next years' Nightmare overlay.

5. The Matterhorn reopened and the changes don't matter. And we got a new Yeti cave at the top of the lift.
Admittedly, this was not as bad as I expected. The widening of the rock openings do not negatively impact the ride experience. I must disagree, however, with merlinjones' assertion that the ride is smoother. There is an annoying bobsled-slow on the hill before the Tomorrowland side splashdown that results in a mild dip instead of a splash.

6. The subs will be back.
I won't complain - but it's a desperation move that will revive an outdated attraction that, well, I never go on - slowest load in the park, and smelly icky.

7. Space Mountain will be completly redone.
But will it take 2 years to complete (ha - twice as long as it took to originally build all of Disneyland) and miss the Park's 50th anniversary?

8. Rivers Of America rehab going on now.
Work on the river is nice alright. I'm glad they are restoring the bridges on TSI, and I suppose I should be glad that they are not simply tearing down Fort Wilderness. Still, guests will no longer be allowed inside and that's a step down in my opinion.

And I saw lots of new paint being applied everywhere.
Yep, but some parts of ToonTown (the city background) are literally peeling off the walls. Still, I have high hopes they will get to it.

Sorry to go all negative on you, Lost Boy. In truth, I think the Park is generally on an upswing. I'm certainly gonna give Jay Rasulo a chance to show his merits.

But I'm not celebrating quite yet.

merlinjones
04-03-2003, 06:29 AM
>>I must disagree, however, with merlinjones' assertion that the ride is smoother. There is an annoying bobsled-slow on the hill before the Tomorrowland side splashdown that results in a mild dip instead of a splash. <<

Well, I went on the Fantasyland side and my cheeks and kneecaps didn't get trashed.

Otherwise I'll have to share your circumspect nature overall.

The fact that a restoration of Small World to Walt era elements is the most popular thing they have done in years is rather telling. I say keep going in that direction if they can't manage any comparable vision of their own.

justagrrl
04-03-2003, 07:01 AM
I think it's going great! I can't wait to see what happens next.

Lani
04-03-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
1. Small World looking fantastic and sounding better than ever.
No problems here. An unadulterated success. Best thing Disneyland's done in 10 years!Boy, I can't agree more. I had a chance to ride it the other weekend, and it almost brought tears to my eyes!

When I was really young and my dream was to meet Mickey at Disneyland, my dad came back from a business trip where he'd visited Disneyland briefly. He brought back with him a record of "it's a small world" -- the ride narrated by a host, and you got to hear all the different languages and variations on the song. Riding the rehabbed attraction brought back a flood of memories of that record, and it made me weepy!

Ghoulish Delight
04-03-2003, 09:00 AM
Another note about Haunted Mansion. I've ridden it about 5 times since it reopened after being un-Nightmared. And every time, I've noticed the same thing, that the audio is messed up, big time. Not just that Leota's audio is out of sync. Here's what I've noticed:

1) Ambient audio track that used to play on the in-buggy speakers is completely gone! This track contained music (especially in the ballroom), as well as Leota's speech, making it much clearer to the rider. Without this ambient track, the whole experience feels very bare, and transitions in the main spiel are very abrupt.

2) The entry hallway/corridor of doors. One of two things happens. Either right after the safety speil, you don't get anything (no hot and cold running chills) and the audio doesn't begin until "unfortunately, they all seem to have trouble getting though." OR, the exact opposite. You get "hot and cold running chills," but it stops after "hardly contain himself" and you don't get anything until "Maybe Madame Leota can establish contact."

Like I said, it has been like this ever since it came out of rehab, I'm 5 for 5. It's really depressing.

FabShelly
04-03-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Lani
Boy, I can't agree more. I had a chance to ride it the other weekend, and it almost brought tears to my eyes!

When I was really young and my dream was to meet Mickey at Disneyland, my dad came back from a business trip where he'd visited Disneyland briefly. He brought back with him a record of "it's a small world" -- the ride narrated by a host, and you got to hear all the different languages and variations on the song. Riding the rehabbed attraction brought back a flood of memories of that record, and it made me weepy!

I LOVE that one - I had it as a kid and listened to it all the time - as an 8-Track Tape!!!

Fab

Toady The Eighth
04-03-2003, 09:42 AM
I agree that Disneyland is looking pretty well lately. However, I have two complaints, and both concern Space Mountain.

First, I think that closing it down for 2 years is RIDICULOUS!

And second, they should have, (and still should) fixed the music YEARS ago.

Laffite
04-03-2003, 09:48 AM
Hi Shannon!

Well, I thought the Matterhorn rehab was very well done. They REALLY clean that place up, even replaced some tracks with more banks so it appears a LOT faster and wilder, kudos!! :)

stinkerbell
04-03-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by FabDisBabe
I LOVE that one - I had it as a kid and listened to it all the time - as an 8-Track Tape!!!

Fab Double ditto!! I, too, was a bit teary-eyed on my last visit (last month) riding IASW.....and I, too, had that on 8-track. It was my one and only personal 8-track tape. I felt like a dork being all verklempt because I was on the ride with like 10 MousePadders.......

I'm not used to how the Carousel looks yet. I'll get used to it and love it eventually, I'm sure.

And Space Mountain closed for two years? That hurts my heart. :(

I loved the Matterhorn on my last visit, too. I didn't notice anything but how much I loved being on it, on the Fantasyland side, which is my favorite. :)

I was only there for a day on my last visit, but I was impressed.

scaeagles
04-03-2003, 10:54 AM
Need a little bit of Pollyanna on this board. So many things are so negative. What I can't figure out is why all of these people who are slamming on DL and DCA keep going! Well, maybe not going to DCA......

It seems pretty obvious to me.....the money normally used on upkeep for DL went to construct DCA. Now that DCA is...complete? maybe not the best word....DL is getting the funding to do some grantedly long overdue upkeep and changes.

It is obvious to me what will happen with Space Mountain as an issue on this board. Most will complain that it is taking too long, and when it is done the same will be underwhelmed. They will say that TDA should have invested more time and money to do it right. However, if it goes any faster, than the criticism will be more so because they obviously didn't take enough time.

This is not to say that DL is above criticism, but it sure seems like half the posters here are on the board of directors at Knott's!

Toady The Eighth
04-03-2003, 11:24 AM
This is not to say that DL is above criticism, but it sure seems like half the posters here are on the board of directors at Knott's!

Hardy Har...

I think you may be right.
:p

Tref
04-03-2003, 12:30 PM
Why all this grousing about gripes? I say, nay, demand, a stop to all this ill-tempered groaning about gripes so that I may get back to my griping. Your griping about my gripes interupts the smooth flow of my sweet grousing. How dare you! I am insulted and offended. I demand an apology forthwith!
I remain,

Toady The Eighth
04-03-2003, 12:47 PM
Soooooorrrryyyyyyyyy ;)

JPIVERSON
04-03-2003, 01:11 PM
To quote Lost Boy.... "Have a little faith in the Magic. "

:)

merlinjones
04-03-2003, 05:13 PM
>>This is not to say that DL is above criticism, but it sure seems like half the posters here are on the board of directors at Knott's!<<

Actually, it seems like half the executive ranks of Team Disney and WDI are on the board of directors at Knotts!

It's irrational to blame the customers for noticing bad product!


>>"Have a little faith in the Magic. " <<

See the "Magic Happens" thread from last year.

stan4d_steph
04-03-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Another note about Haunted Mansion. I've ridden it about 5 times since it reopened after being un-Nightmared. And every time, I've noticed the same thing, that the audio is messed up, big time. Not just that Leota's audio is out of sync. Here's what I've noticed:

1) Ambient audio track that used to play on the in-buggy speakers is completely gone! This track contained music (especially in the ballroom), as well as Leota's speech, making it much clearer to the rider. Without this ambient track, the whole experience feels very bare, and transitions in the main spiel are very abrupt.

2) The entry hallway/corridor of doors. One of two things happens. Either right after the safety speil, you don't get anything (no hot and cold running chills) and the audio doesn't begin until "unfortunately, they all seem to have trouble getting though." OR, the exact opposite. You get "hot and cold running chills," but it stops after "hardly contain himself" and you don't get anything until "Maybe Madame Leota can establish contact."

Like I said, it has been like this ever since it came out of rehab, I'm 5 for 5. It's really depressing.

I've also noticed this and I was going to start a thread about it. It's a major issue to me that a significant portion of the ride narration is missing every time. Anyone have any insight into the cause?

Baloo
04-04-2003, 05:50 PM
I am excited about the space mountain rehab and hope some of the money they were going to spend on the subs which WILL NOT return go into adding more theming inside the building and queue.

I am also excited about some of the 50th entertainment and exibits which look great. Hopefully some more is added.

Paint is good.

Lets just hope that the next big attraction to get a good rehab is Indy Jones when it goes down later this year

Germboy
04-04-2003, 06:51 PM
OK scaeagles, maybe I can help...

We complain (me being one of the biggest complainers) because we are amazed at how much the park has lost. The magic is dying and we do not want to see that. We continue to go for a number of reasons...speaking for myself: If you don't go, how is that going to make the situation BETTER? The park just continues to decline and now there are less and less people to remember how it SHOULD be. Newbies and younger generations coming up will accept an increasingly lower standard because they have nothing to compare it to. You can already see this happening--both with Disney losing their hallmarks (innovation, creativity, immaculate attention to detail, loss of "money is no object" showmanship, degradation of quality attractions being introduced, etc etc) AND the public accepting this lowered bar like it is no big deal.

Since there is no effective way to express our concerns with the park (you are treated as a number at City Hall, or worse yet aren't even heard by those making the decisions), we are forced to go online with the hopes that someone within the company who has clout is reading this. I believe they are.

Since us locals are DL's largest demographic as the economy turns south, I believe they are looking very closely at sites like this one. The park's pollsters ask questions of out-of-towners who may have never been to the park and don't know what to expect. These people, understandably, might complain about long lines. They might complain about not enough shade, food prices too high, rides being shut down...etc etc. If they were never at a Disney park before, what are these complaints going to do about CORE issues that put the Disney name on a pedestal? If I were from out of town, I may overlook peeling or faded paint. I may not notice that 3/4 of Tomorrowland is closed. I may not remember Jack Wagner's park announcements. I may not notice that patriotism is almost gone from the park. I wouldn't question the "un-Disneyfying" of the parades and fireworks and on and on....

You may say that the best way to "boycott" this is not to go to the park. I say "How so?" 1) How is staying away going to tell them what the problem is? It just allows them to degrade further and less and less people are around to notice. And besides, I love going to Disneyland and don't want it taken away from me, either by my actions or those of the current park management.

merlinjones
04-04-2003, 10:47 PM
Germboy, I sincerely hope you infect the right people with your message! ;)

Germboy
04-04-2003, 11:58 PM
Merlinjones, tell you what...I think I am a disgruntled employee who never was. I was a vendor for the park. It was a childhood dream for me to be a part of that magic and it was literally the high point of my life to have Disneyland in my territory (and to have them use our equipment almost exclusively) AND to be able to converse with some of their senior engineers and maintenance supervisors. I often secretly wanted to work for the park in a technical sense, but knew (after reading job requirements) that I just didn't have enough years of experience. Now...when I see how things are actually run there, I realize that I know more about Disney than many of the people running the show. All I can say is...if I were in charge, things would be FAR different than they are now. Perhaps Eisner would shoot me down before I had the chance, but I know what would bring the awe back to the park. And thanks, I hope they hear too. I hope I'm contagious.

Tigertail777
04-05-2003, 01:53 AM
Very well stated Germboy! I couldnt put it any better, particularly the lowering of the bar... its unbeleivable how far downhill they have gone in quality, and how out of touch they are with Walt's original ideals. People just cannot understand it, or "get it" when I point out how much Walt accomplished with the park in such a short span of time (1955-1966) in eleven short years, animatronics were invented practically from scratch, omnimover vehicles were invented, all manner and form of magic in the rides at the parks were invented in ELEVEN YEARS! (ok some research was done prior to that, so we'll say 13-14 years still a remarkably short time period for accomplishing so much). Do you relaize how frantic of a schedule that is? with all of the rides ever made, and other attractions... some years got 2 or more brand new rides opened, in fact subs, Matterhorn, and Monorail all opened on the SAME DAY... 3 brand new attractions of high caliber opening at the same time! There was practically no empty time space between inventing attractions for WDI, they were working on more than one project at time so they all overlapped, there was no down time at WDI EVER while Walt was alive. And this wasnt just "theorizing" work, this was actually building things into real rides and attractions. Most importantly Walt understood one of the oldest and truest maxims: if you spend money to do it right the first time, you will make that money back ten fold. It's sad how much is forgotten of Walts legacy, it is truly incredible all he and his artists and workmen accomplished, one would almost have to say it was magic that built the park, because its hard to rationalize that so much beauty could be made in such a short time. By all rights, all of the major AA rides (Pirates, HM, Tiki etc) should have taken far longer to build, and by todays standards they are considered miracles of acheivement.

Germboy
04-05-2003, 02:59 AM
Tigertail, I don't know if you've seen it, but there is a film from 1966 that Walt made regarding his ideas for Epcot and the "Florida project". He was pitching a spiel to companies like IBM and Ford to secure capital for the massive project.

It is interesting to note what he actually envisioned, and what actually came to fruition. The company was creating a CITY attached to the amusement areas. A district outside the city would be reserved solely for American "In-dus-try" (as Walt called it), where industry could display their wares for the public, and also get input from it.

Obviously, this never happened. Epcot was not meant to be just an amusement park. Far from it. And if the company couldn't realize that larger vision out of a huge desolate swampland, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that they can't maintain the dream here.

I guess the lesson is that the company needs a visionary to run it. Not a greedy stock market insider, nor a shopping mall merchandizer. Disney deserves better.

scaeagles
04-05-2003, 03:34 AM
Germboy, I think you've helped me to understand a bit more of the underlying....resentment? disappointment?.....with DL. I don't know if I am in a position to ever share in it, though. But even to the 2 to 3 times/year visitor, I have noticed problems, too (particularly with mechanical maintenance - almost half the times I've tried to ride Indy in the last 2 years it's broken down).

I suppose I say I'll never share in it because I'm not a Disney traditionalist or a Disney historian in any sense. I grew up in No Cal (Napa Valley), further from DL than i am now in Phoenix. I always enjoyed chances to go, but never went prior to being around 14 or 15. So to me the experience of DL is seen through the eyes of my kids. As long as they love it, I will take them, and believe me, Disney magic exists in their eyes the entire thime they are there. Are things TDA could do to mke them enjoy it more? Undoubtedly. But my kids love everything about DL, and even enjoy DCA (even the lame rides, unfortunately).

I realize that it is true that DL isn't simply to be for kids, but for all. I just can't imagine having as much fun there without my kids. And there is a tremendous amount of reason to be optimistic about the future of the park from what we've all read here and other places.

I suppose I'm back to my original "pollyanna" point.