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GoldenEars
03-30-2003, 12:11 AM
I just got back from the Park tonight and was able to ride the new *Pooh* attraction. First, even tho I loved the CBJ and I wish it were still there, I still enjoyed this new attraction!

Like many of you, I have read a lot of negativity about *Pooh* & how bad it is. But quite honestly, I had a good time on it. I thought the sets and characters were really cute and the story flowed pretty well. And I especially liked the music score, it was very clear and easy on the ears.

I also found the attraction to be VERY bright and cheery, and that put a big smile on my face. This new attraction is going to be great for kids and kids at heart...like me!:D

Perhaps it could be a *better* show, but until then, I'm going to enjoy what it is and recommend it to others. By the way, I thought the rain scene was done very well. And yes, I was able to see the *3 classics*...Max, Buff and Melvin!

Over all, I would give *Pooh* a 7 out of 10.

Patrick:)

PS It was strange seeing *Pooh* in the hot air balloon, knowing that was the exact same spot that Teddi Beara came down.

danyoung
03-30-2003, 04:57 AM
I'll be experiencing the new ride later this week. It's been interesting reading the early feedback. I've gotta wonder sometimes just what people are expecting. It's been evident for months that this was not going to be an E ticket attraction, but rather another dark ride. It sounds like it succeeds on that front. I'm not sure how it'll compare to WDW's version. While I enjoy that one, again it's just a dark ride, not a full blown audio animatronic stuffed extraveganza. Can't wait to make up my own mind.

merlinjones
03-30-2003, 12:08 PM
I went on Pooh yesterday (a visiting friend treated me to DL).

Overall, it is very cheap and ugly, but still has promise. Could be cute on the scale of Fantasyland if it were better art directed and there was more dimension, immersion, dynamic layout and movement in the ride, as well as some clear and clever gags and improved storytelling. These are things that Alice, Peter Pan, Roger et al posssess that Pooh does not.

The Bad:

The art direction looks nothing like the films. The pen and ink sketchy Shepard like illustration with soft watercolor hues has been abandoned in favor of a garish palette of off the shelf paints in generic design use.

The characters do not look soft and cuddly like anthropomorphic stuffed animals, but like hard and glossy Disney Store mannikins.

There is little enveloping three dimesional "ride through" layout to the ride, as there is in all of the FL rides, but most of the subdued action takes place on the sidelines, like a wall hanging. There is little movement to the figures or scenes in general and they are usually staged in very static situations sans gags or twists. More like dioramas than ride through environments. The furniture and sets are nearly all flats, again poorly drawn and not to the style of the film.

The flow of the story is choppy and too brief, with awkward transitions between setpieces.

The Heffalumps and Woozles room is completely redesigned from the film, which features only heffalunmps and woozles in a spookily blank environment and not generic crazy background shapes like in a funhouse or Superstar Limo (as it does here). There is little of the thrust and movement of the film and the character gags are poorly staged. A real "could have been" scene.

Some atrocious flats are featured in the honey room and especially around and on the doors of the exit. Hardly Disney animation in appearance, and again, not in the style of the films.

The Good:

The rain and other weather effects were cool and charming.

The rocking motion of the vehicles was more effective than expected. Pleasant.

The pepper's ghost and floating snoozing-Pooh projection effect were the highlight of this version.

Music is very nice and sounds like the film.

The Missing:

This ride could be vastly improved... and become an acceptable companion to the other Disneyland dark rides with the following simple additions:

Animated storybook projections that ease the transitions between scenes and provide more movement and eye candy throught ride. This will help the storytelling. These are very effective in other versions of the Pooh ride - - and they look great in action.

A better narrator that sounds more like Sebastian Cabot could help immensely with story transitions and amusing side observations.

Repaint and redecorate the sets with good on-model drawing and painting in the style of the film. Add some three dimesional ride through set elements to break up the static layout. We should feel we are inside those illustrations, not a Disney Store.

Soften the look and texture of the characters to make them look like stuffed animals. Add a few full motion characters here and there to pump the life into scemes (adapt a few of the small country bear animatronics to Poohs).

Add some wall size projection screens in Heffalumps and Woozles to use patterned character animation from the film and give this nightmare some dynamics. Take out the squares and zaps and funky shapes and put in more heffalumps and woozles figures with better and more clearly staged gags. Some dimensional H & W characters too, please. Use specially mixed colors from the film's palette.

Add some better effects transitions between the woozles and the honey - - some sort of big gag here... an explosion of honey perhaps? A spritzy sticky effect? A scent?

The whole thing needs a new ending with some capper. The bouncing Tigger and bouncing vehicle surprise would send everyone out smiling here if it could be added. And some more attractive exit panels must be conceived.

The above is not all that much more work, but it would make the difference between a hack kiddie ride job and a real ride through Walt Disney's Pooh film that would appeal more broadly (the kids will still like it if it's better).

FabShelly
03-30-2003, 01:18 PM
I rode it six times, using the AP that I paid for, for admission.

I loved it every single time I rode it. The effects are great, the sets well-done. It's a very good Disney dark ride.

Fab

tiggerandtink
03-30-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by DsneNut
I just got back from the Park tonight and was able to ride the new *Pooh* attraction. First, even tho I loved the CBJ and I wish it were still there, I still enjoyed this new attraction!

Like many of you, I have read a lot of negativity about *Pooh* & how bad it is. But quite honestly, I had a good time on it. I thought the sets and characters were really cute and the story flowed pretty well. And I especially liked the music score, it was very clear and easy on the ears.

I also found the attraction to be VERY bright and cheery, and that put a big smile on my face. This new attraction is going to be great for kids and kids at heart...like me!:D

Perhaps it could be a *better* show, but until then, I'm going to enjoy what it is and recommend it to others. By the way, I thought the rain scene was done very well. And yes, I was able to see the *3 classics*...Max, Buff and Melvin!

Over all, I would give *Pooh* a 7 out of 10.

Patrick:)

PS It was strange seeing *Pooh* in the hot air balloon, knowing that was the exact same spot that Teddi Beara came down. Hey what are you doing? You know the rules, no positive statements about anything Disney has done in the past 10 years, especially the Pooh ride. What are you new?
Et tu FabDisBabe? You should know better!
The above commentary does not reflect the opinion of MousePlanet or Tiggerandtink. Personally I can't wait to ride Pooh in all it's plywooded glory!

merlinjones
03-30-2003, 08:31 PM
Interesting to note that even with a moderately crowded park on Saturday, not very many people were waiting to look at the Pooh preview during peak hours, though it was clearly operational (but obviously not advertised). FastPasses were nearly a direct return time.

I was wondering if the location simply is too hidden away, too remote, for spontaneous riding.

Could it be that the Country Bears had sparse crowds as much due to its location as its alleged lack of appeal? I wonder how it would do, say, on the Ranch road to Fantasyland with a steady stream of passers by?

merlinjones
03-30-2003, 08:53 PM
>>I loved it every single time I rode it. The effects are great, the sets well-done. It's a very good Disney dark ride.<<

Vive la difference! Some people like DCA, Bug Land and Tomorrowland '98 too...!

danyoung
03-31-2003, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
There is little enveloping three dimesional "ride through" layout to the ride....

I have no comment about most of your post (although I enjoyed reading it). I just wanted to give you your "props" for using a statement like "enveloping three dimensional ride through layout". Nicely presented! ;)

Thomas
03-31-2003, 06:53 AM
I rode it on Saturday night with my kids. My opinion is that this ride is for the kids. Every kid I saw on it had a great time and wanted to get back in line to ride it again (the line was only a 5 minute wait at approximately 7:30pm).

If you don't like the paint, the movements, the way the car moves, or whatever else is going on in the ride, then don't ride it. To criticize it so much you must keep riding it to know so much about it.

The part I enjoyed the most was seeing the excitement on my kid's faces and that of all the other kids riding it.

merlinjones
03-31-2003, 07:03 AM
>>If you don't like the paint, the movements, the way the car moves, or whatever else is going on in the ride, then don't ride it. To criticize it so much you must keep riding it to know so much about it. <<

I only rode it once (ever), then moved on to delight in It's a Small World and Alice in Wonderland!

I only rode the WDW version once as well. Haven't seen the TDL version, but I'd love to.

Criticism is a vital part of the arts (if these efforts can still be described as such).

The art direction issues were obvious to me without any Pooh-like effort to "think, think, think" about it. But I've been watching "Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day" since it came out in 1968, so I've had plenty of time to absorb the proper design and overall "look" of Pooh environments. This wasn't it.

>>My opinion is that this ride is for the kids. <<

Wouldn't they like it just as much if it were more artfully conceived and executed? ...Then Kids of All Ages could enjoy it too.

How does shooting for the lowest common denominator enhance a child's experience of this ride?

After all, Fantasyland does both. Isn't that the whole point of it all?

I rode Casey Jr with as much enthusiasm as any little kid the same day Pooh disappointed me. Attention to artful detail and quality is never a bad thing, is it?

Thomas
03-31-2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
[B
The art direction issues were obvious to me without any Pooh-like effort to "think, think, think" about it. But I've been watching "Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day" since it came out in 1968, so I've had plenty of time to absorb the proper design and overall "look" of Pooh environments. This wasn't it. [/B]

And by watching this since 1968 you have experience in applying it to a ride?

merlinjones
03-31-2003, 07:12 AM
>>And by watching this since 1968 you have experience in applying it to a ride?<<

No. But I know pretty and ugly when I see it.

merlinjones
03-31-2003, 07:56 AM
You know, the Walt era rides were largely designed by the same people who had made films and cartoons all those years. They brought that consistent taste and eye and humor and storytelling ability to the attractions at Disneyland. It seems to me that efforts like Pooh would benefit from more animation story, layout and art direction types to give this continuity and verve to the projects.

It seems like more and more product design, illustration, theatre arts, real estate development, archetecture and theme park design people have taken on WDI and the results show in the lack of dedicated cartoon/movie story and art ideas in the rides. That, along with quality and taste, is one of the unique Disney factors that has slipped away in recent years.

Instidude
03-31-2003, 08:49 AM
While I usually don't agree with merlinjones on things on this board, I do have to agree some with his last statement regarding the "lack of story". This seems to be a trend from WDI during their huge growth of the 90's. The group started moving away from R&D, cutting edge technology, and rider/park friendly attractions, to become more of a "corporate design engineering" function as most large companies have. The reason I feel this is the case is based on a job interview I had at WDW for and Engineering Services Manager position about 6 years ago. After talking to the park engineering/maintenance group about the struggles they were having at AK, I had an interview where a comment from an upper manager seemed to sum it all up for me. That was, "Imagineering designs and installs the ride, then we have to make it work". This tells me that WDI had really begun to lose touch with what it takes to make a really good ride, since part of that overall design includes making something that will work when it is installed. Like the large company I used to work for, the design gets made, then "thrown over the wall", so to speak, to let the park operations group deal with.

I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but it is a symptom of a large corporate structure, where some of the finer details can get overlooked.

merlinjones
03-31-2003, 10:39 AM
>>I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but it is a symptom of a large corporate structure, where some of the finer details can get overlooked.<<

It's a crime when the actual entertainment value of a "product" is considered a fine detail or a side issue. The lack of technicians, politicians, marketers, accountants, pollsters and corporate executives to realize the simple importance of the artist/storyteller/entertainer in the process of creation is the primary reason the WDC is in the toilet today across the boards. This disrespected POV is where everything came from in the WDP heyday.

Instidude
03-31-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but it is a symptom of a large corporate structure, where some of the finer details can get overlooked.<<

It's a crime when the actual entertainment value of a "product" is considered a fine detail or a side issue. The lack of technicians, politicians, marketers, accountants, pollsters and corporate executives to realize the simple importance of the artist/storyteller/entertainer in the process of creation is the primary reason the WDC is in the toilet today across the boards. This disrespected POV is where everything came from in the WDP heyday.

I agree that it is a problem for all entertainment companies when they look at a movie/attraction/TV show as just the equivalent as another "widget" coming off an assembly line. All the media companies do it (which is why we see an endless line of sequels or remakes hitting the ceneplexes all the time), and it is painful to see Disney do this, since they have a higher standard set for them by both the public, and themselves, over the years.

innerSpaceman
03-31-2003, 03:14 PM
Although I've gone into some detail about my particular Pooh impressions on that other thread, I have to say that merlinjones' fix ideas presented in his intitial post to this thread are right on the money and could simply and fairly easily turn an averageish dark ride into a delightful dark ride.

I'm not gonna hold my breath, though. Rarely have I seen a Disney attraction receive upgrades after opening, while I have often seen things slide in the opposite direction (e.g., the fog that used to fill the scary forest in Snow White, the purple smoke that used to issue from the chimneys atop Toad Hall, or any of a dozen previously working effects on Indiana Jones). To see a Disney attraction at its best, it's often necessary to see it in its early days. It's usually all downhill from there.

furbE95
03-31-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
I went on Pooh yesterday (a visiting friend treated me to DL).

Overall, it is very cheap and ugly, but still has promise. Could be cute on the scale of Fantasyland if it were better art directed and there was more dimension, immersion, dynamic layout and movement in the ride, as well as some clear and clever gags and improved storytelling. These are things that Alice, Peter Pan, Roger et al posssess that Pooh does not.


Translation: The ride sucks, but it could be better if they made it an ENTIRELY new ride :)

furbE95
03-31-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Although I've gone into some detail about my particular Pooh impressions on that other thread, I have to say that merlinjones' fix ideas presented in his intitial post to this thread are right on the money and could simply and fairly easily turn an averageish dark ride into a delightful dark ride.

I'm not gonna hold my breath, though. Rarely have I seen a Disney attraction receive upgrades after opening, while I have often seen things slide in the opposite direction (e.g., the fog that used to fill the scary forest in Snow White, the purple smoke that used to issue from the chimneys atop Toad Hall, or any of a dozen previously working effects on Indiana Jones). To see a Disney attraction at its best, it's often necessary to see it in its early days. It's usually all downhill from there.
But then again, how often have you seen a ride get such a bad reception before it even opened. Usually newer rides are better, not worse, than previous ones. The only ones that go against this are rocket rods, and they are already gone. If pooh recieves the same review as the public as it is on this board, maybe it wont be operating too much longer. But maybe they will make a good decision now that Pressler is gone rather than diminsh ride capacity even further.

danyoung
04-01-2003, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Rarely have I seen a Disney attraction receive upgrades after opening, while I have often seen things slide in the opposite direction...

While this is sadly true, there is a glaring example of the opposite. When Alien Encounter first was previewed in Florida, Eisner himself shut it down for months while the story was retooled. Who knows if the current version is actually better than the original, but it did set a precedent .

merlinjones
04-02-2003, 08:53 AM
There's still time to fix it before the public responds!

cstephens
04-02-2003, 03:04 PM
I happened to be in the park today and had a chance to ride it. Around 12:30, the wait time was about 10 minutes. I thought the ride was ok, but I wasn't that excited about it. I'm figuring that's mostly because I'm not much familiar with or enamoured of the Pooh stories, so there wasn't much about the ride that made a lot of sense to me. I can certainly see how someone who does like the Pooh stories could really like the ride.

Two things I noticed that were cool:

1. When you're in the queue, Tigger is the one doing the safety spiel in English. I thought that was really cool.

2. When they take you from the line and put you in the rows to board, the row number markers on the ground are in the shape of honey pots. Very cool.

One thing I did notice that I didn't like was the ride rehicle. While I think the vehicle is very cute, I wish it was smaller, though I understand there can be capacity issues. I sat in the third/last row, and I had trouble seeing over some of the adults in front of me since many of the things to see are at the same level as the ride vehicle. I can't imagine how difficult it would be for a kid to see over the adults in the first two rows. I would have preferred if they'd made a smaller version of the vehicle, with two rows like some of the Fantasyland dark rides.

To me, it's another dark ride like the Fantasyland ones, so I can't really see the fuss one way or another.

merlinjones
04-02-2003, 03:40 PM
Wow. Even cstephens didn't like it!

cstephens
04-02-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Wow. Even cstephens didn't like it!

I didn't say I didn't like it. I said it was ok.

I didn't like the ride vehicle, even though I apparently couldn't figure out how to spell that in my previous post.

merlinjones
04-02-2003, 04:10 PM
Let's all sing:

"Mind over mat-ter will make the Pooh ride phat-ter."