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napframe
03-27-2003, 06:41 PM
Theme parks are renown for action and thrill rides. Ever since the world of technological advance and innovation the magic has been changing from carousel to coaster but something else emerged from the shadows.

The advance of the Flight Simulator has brought further frontiers to the theme park experience and it is widely used today and continues to grow in Disney parks. Things might have looked futuristic and thrilling when simulators first took publicity but most of the thrill experience is not there anymore. A lot of parks are adapting and saying these are the rides of the future because they are now more interactive than ever, but for me they are no different than sitting at home on a Saturday night and playing Grand Theft Auto with my nephew.

Simulators need to go because they are just a passing fad. In the late 90's they were considered as the "future" by people who used to think living in a society with voice activated living rooms and internet-connected refriderators that hooked up to your cellphone and toilet were innovative and useful. Use technology only when you need it because that's what it's for. These corporations thought they could replace the real rides with simulators that jolt and dip to trick the mind into a thrill. You don't need voice activated air conditioning, voice activated cars, or voice activated "thrill" rides. Parks like Six Flags take this into consideration and instead rely on the real innovation, coasters. Big ones.

People have become so used to screens and televisions that none of this star tours mumbo jumbo is real anymore. I would find nothing better than falling down Splash Mountain and flying through space with the real feeling of acceleration and natual forces. That's what thrill is all about.

Toady The Eighth
03-28-2003, 08:56 AM
I completely agree with you. I am soo tired of these rides. HISTA, Muppet Vision, Bugs Life, etc.. all of these rides are boring once you've done them once.

DO AWAY WITH THEM!!

Duane
03-28-2003, 09:24 AM
I agree 100% that simulator attractions need to go, especially the "motion" simulator type attractions. Star Tours, Body Wars, Back to the Future, and unfortunately, the new Mission Space are all motion simulators which are famous for creating nausea and dizziness. Whatever happened to the "adventure" type attractions that take you on a journey into another world? These rides are becoming less and less in existance due to the enormous cost of production and operation. I wish they would build a park with nothing but E-rides and charge a separate admission to enter, I would pay for it! Then they could have a park full of cheap carnival attractions and motion simulators and call it California Adventure II.

Toady The Eighth
03-28-2003, 09:37 AM
<<I wish they would build a park with nothing but E-rides and charge a separate admission to enter, I would pay for it!>>

They do. It's called Six Flags ;)


<< Then they could have a park full of cheap carnival attractions and motion simulators and call it California Adventure II>>

Hardy Har.. Isn't that already California Adventure I? :)

hbquikcomjamesl
03-28-2003, 09:54 AM
It seems to me you're straining at gnats, at least where Disney parks are concerned..

Consider enclosed large-capacity simulators: there are perhaps four Star Tours attractions and one, maybe two, Body Wars attraction, worldwide, ranging from four to six cabins per attraction.

There are even fewer "open" simulators in Disney parks, namely one: Soarin' Over California.

At this point, I don't know what Mission: Space is going to be like, but the ride vehicles I saw being assembled look awfully small to be a pure simulator experience.

Comparing that with the number of boat rides (thrilling and otherwise, from tame ones like Storybook Land and the one in Epcot: The Land, to the thrilling and rather innovative Maelstrom in Epcot Norway), rollercoasters, Dumbo-clones, trains, darkrides, Animatronic shows, CV films, rolling theatre rides (i.e., Ellen in Epcot, and GMR in MGM), and so forth, simulators are far from common in Disney parks.

And I'd much rather have a well-themed simulator than some off-the-shelf carnival ride with no theming whatsoever (e.g., Mulholland Mistake).

YellowMan
03-28-2003, 09:55 AM
I have to disagree. I think that simulators are very good rides (especially with children). When I was a child, I believed that the simulator was an actual space ship of some kind, and although we were never in any real danger because we were at Disneyland, we were however flying around. This made it one of my favorite attractions. Simulators are a way of doing things in a ride that you cannot do anywhere else. Also, the newer simulators are much more advanced than Star Tours and Back to the Future The Ride, just not many of them have been installed (for instance, that simulator in Las Vegas (Atlantis themed, I believe) that combines 3D effects and 3D sound into the simulator experience).

As long as you don't concentrate on the fact that it is only a ride, simulators do offer a thrilling ride. No matter what ride you're on, if you concentrate on it too much then it loses it's fun, this isn't just limited to simulators. The only type of ride excluded from this is the roller coaster.
Parks like Six Flags take this into consideration and instead rely on the real innovation, coasters. Big ones. Actually, they don't take this into consideration and they only build roller coasters. That is partially why their stock price has dropped lower than its ever been before.

cstephens
03-28-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by napframe
Theme parks are renown for action and thrill rides.

I prefer theme parks that are more than just about action and thrills. If that's all you're looking for, there are other parks (like Six Flags) that cater to that particular taste. I think what sets Disney apart is that their parks are more diversified in what they offer.


Originally posted by Toady the Eighth
I am soo tired of these rides. HISTA, Muppet Vision, Bugs Life, etc.. all of these rides are boring once you've done them once.

I've not experienced Bug's Life, but from what I know about it, and based on my experiences on the other two attractions, I wouldn't consider them simulator attractions.


And I personally really like Muppetvision and have seen it numerous times and I can see it many more times in the future. Some of us like that kind of stuff in addition to the other stuff.

dsnylndmom
03-28-2003, 10:41 AM
I love It's Tough to Be a Bug, I've seen it 4 or 5 times and I still enjoy it! My kids love Muppetvision, even though they've seen it a bunch of times. I think these attractions are great when you need to sit down and have a little break, if it's too hot outside or raining out. When we went in NOv. last year it rained off and on and these attractions were GREAT for getting out of the rain.

I'm not a huge fan of simulators but I don't consider these shows simulator's at all.

MonorailMan
03-28-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
And I'd much rather have a well-themed simulator than some off-the-shelf carnival ride with no theming whatsoever (e.g., Mulholland Mistake).

It's got theming. 2 words: Street Signs. The amount of Signs on MM has been going up, every trip I've been! :D :eek: :D

Tref
03-28-2003, 11:42 AM
I have no problem with the simulators per se. Its Tough To Be A Bug is terrific. In fact, its a blast! MuppetVision less so. And Star Tours was at one time cutting edge and a whole lot of fun. Disney's real challenge is just to improve on the technology and keep the rides fresh. I can hardly wait for the new Epcot simulator ride, as I am sure it will be state of the art. I just hope I can afford to take the trip.

For more on this check out the Star Tours 2.0 thread.

I remain,

hbquikcomjamesl
03-28-2003, 12:11 PM
I quite agree with "cstephens": ITTBAB, MuppetVision, HISTA, EO, and Magic Journeys (remember that one?) aren't simulators; they're shows (and rather good ones, although I'm in no hurry to do ITTBAB a second time).

AliKzam
03-28-2003, 12:31 PM
If you think about it (even if you don't, really), the simulater ride is actually a very Disney thing. When Disneyland opened, there was "Rocket to the Moon" in Tomorrowland. Guests looked at a screen and felt like they were going up to the moon. Then came "Mission to Mars", where guests felt like they were going to Mars. And those weren't even the good simulators, because all you could really do was watch what was going on.
Then came "Star Tours", where you can watch and feel the ride, and have an AA voiced by Paul Ruebens be your captain.
Now, at Tokyo DisneySea, you can not only watch the ride and feel the ride, you can also be part of the whole experience. There's that weather ride, where you're in a plane that's supposed to start storms, and then the needle comes crashing down into your cabin, and wind and rain come at you. That's what they need to bring here. Someone needs to upgrade our simulator rides to the next level.
I just hope Disney does it, first.

Tref
03-28-2003, 12:32 PM
Well, Disney may have a 'proper' name for what they call these specific sort of rides/shows, but as far as 'simulating' a certain environment with sounds, movement, effects, etc., I'd say Bug's Life et al, fall into this category.

I.r.

kennyhues
03-28-2003, 12:50 PM
Napframe wrote: "Parks like Six Flags take this into consideration and instead rely on the real innovation, coasters. Big ones."

Serious? Please. Ever more thrilling variations on a hundred-year-old theme, yes, but not innovative.

I don't care if the Diz gives us simulators, coasters, dark rides, sensory-enhanced movies, or entirely new kinds of experiences as long as they're executed to the Nth degree in theming and story. THAT's what we really want, right? Rides and attractions that spark our imaginations and make us feel something a little deeper than "Whoo-hoo!" I think if all you're looking for is an adrenaline rush, you're missing out.

napframe
03-28-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
I quite agree with "cstephens": ITTBAB, MuppetVision, HISTA, EO, and Magic Journeys (remember that one?) aren't simulators; they're shows (and rather good ones, although I'm in no hurry to do ITTBAB a second time).

EO rocked.

Tref
03-28-2003, 02:06 PM
Kennyhues writ,"I don't care if the Diz gives us simulators, coasters, dark rides, sensory-enhanced movies, or entirely new kinds of experiences as long as they're executed to the Nth degree in theming and story. THAT's what we really want, right? Rides and attractions that spark our imaginations and make us feel something a little deeper than "Whoo-hoo!" I think if all you're looking for is an adrenaline rush, you're missing out."


Here, here! Exactly on the mark.

I.r.

Toady The Eighth
03-28-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Tref
Kennyhues writ,"I don't care if the Diz gives us simulators, coasters, dark rides, sensory-enhanced movies, or entirely new kinds of experiences as long as they're executed to the Nth degree in theming and story. THAT's what we really want, right? Rides and attractions that spark our imaginations and make us feel something a little deeper than "Whoo-hoo!" I think if all you're looking for is an adrenaline rush, you're missing out."


Here, here! Exactly on the mark.

I.r.

Exactly! Soarin Over California is amazing!!

Star Tours is outdated. And maybe HISTA, and the like aren't simulators. You guys are right. But they still suck. I do like It's Tough to be a bug, but I may never enter Muppetvision or HISTA again. I've seen them a couple times, and that's enough!

innerSpaceman
03-28-2003, 02:35 PM
I think Star Tours was a death knell.

I mean, unless you're the tiniest child, can you for a moment believe you're not looking at a movie screen? I may not think I'm in a real haunted house when riding through the Mansion or that I've actually been transported to the Spanish Main while cruising through Pirates of the Caribbean, but I know darn well I'm not looking at a movie.

Yeah, yeah, Rocket to the Moon was nothing but a cheap, early simulator. Yeah, sure, the environment being imitated on the Star Tours movie screen is one you've only seen on a movie screen anyway. Well, I can watch a StarWars movie on my big screen at home and rock my chair from side-to-side to get the same effect. There's just nothing whatsoever amazing about it.

And, like all movie-based attractions - they wear out the repeatability factor (for most folks) far earlier than totally immersive, physical environment attractions do. Maybe if they'd realize how cheap they got away with on these simulator rides and freaking change the movie every, what, once every ten years or so???? jeesh!

Luckily, I think they are a fad that has mostly run its course (Soarin' over California notwithstanding). But the lure of cheap, cheap, cheap ride can never be overlooked. Let's just hope they keep a lid on it and limit this type of unattractive attraction to the current level of one per park.

refurbmike
03-28-2003, 02:53 PM
I like simulators.

There is few things better than walking onto Star Tours and getting a fresh wiff of recently burned hydraulic fluid. I get the same smell when I get into an elevator, every morning. Can't beat that smell.

Tref
03-28-2003, 03:07 PM
I couldn't agree more refurb, that's why every morning, I cook my eggs & bacon in Hydraulic fluid. It makes ordinary food taste like an elevator trip to Endor.
I.r.

hbquikcomjamesl
03-28-2003, 03:15 PM
I cook my eggs & bacon in Hydraulic fluid.Reminds me of my days at the ice rink, repairing the Zamboni, dealing with "Type F" by the gallon. (The auto parts clerk always tended to give us funny looks whenever we were picking up multi-case lots of "Type F" and/or multiple tubes of blue boat trailer grease.)

I once missed a hose when I was tightening a valve into place, and as soon as I tested the system, I managed to nail myself right between the front teeth with the stuff. When I die of old age, they'll probably still be able to detect the stuff in my bloodstream.

cujosr
03-28-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Tref
Well, Disney may have a 'proper' name for what they call these specific sort of rides/shows, but as far as 'simulating' a certain environment with sounds, movement, effects, etc., I'd say Bug's Life et al, fall into this category. For the purposes of this discussion I think the original poster "napframe" was talking about Motion Simulators. With that I will put in my two cents.

I happen to disagree. Simulators can leave a great impression on you if you let it. For example Soarin' Over California let's you know exactly what it is. You know it is a movie. You see the screen when you walk through the door. Even the pre-show video shows the simulator "lifting off." So why do thousands of guests enjoy this experience every day even though they know it isn't real? Because the information presented to your eyes, ears, body, (and in Soarin's case your nose,) tricks you into thinking you are flying over different parts of California. If you let it. When you start looking around for objects that take you out of the world presented to you you ruin the experience for yourself.

A better example would be "Star Trek: The Experience" in Las Vegas. For those of you who have not ridden it I will give a quick description. As you walk in the queue is filled with Star Trek memorbilia and a timeline of ST history. Then you enter a waiting area where you see a preshow video somewhat like Star Tours. Then the fun begins. The room goes dark and you are transported to starship Enterprise arriving on the teleporter pad. After engaging with live actors, playing roles of the ship's officers in scale replicas of sets, you are taken to the shuttle bay for a trip through time and space and Klingons. The point is after battling with Klingons and avoiding death many times, I knew it wasn't real. So does everybody that gets off the ride also. But for the time It was fun.

These two are fine examples of great simulator rides there are some that are not. Star Tours is NOT one of these rides. When I first saw the commercials for Star Tours, back when I was little, i wanted to go! After getting off I had really thought I had flown into space and was asking my uncle where they came out from looking for the next shuttle! This kind of feeling can only come from the mind of a child but adults can enjoy it just as much. Just suspend your disbelief. I will admit that Star Tours is in DIRE need of refubishment, but all it really needs is touch ups of the facades (including anamatronics,) some work with the hydrolics and a new film one that is a little different. The film is where Star Tours is really showing it's age using effects from over twenty years ago is a real strain on the imagination. I think that napframe's real problem is with the age and deterioration that is showing through.

In summation, Motion Simulators are still the ride of the future. They will not replace the old standard rollercoasters but maybe a hybrid of the two may be seen in the near future. We have already seen something that is close to a coaster/simulator with the "Spiderman" ride at Islands Of Adventure.

napframe
03-28-2003, 08:12 PM
The verdict is in. The best way to enjoy simulators is if you're drunk or hallucinating from sleep deprivation.

iAmJacksDLand
03-28-2003, 08:57 PM
You guys are quick to forget!

Motion Simulators are what power rides like Indiana Jones and SpiderMan! While a motion simulator may never add up to the physical thrills of SM or MM, they still offer a different and fun experience. At least Star Tours offers a line you can be engaged in and an attraction that is themed with story. The cabin is outfitted with interactive lights and its own animatronic... and while you know it isn't real, you can still have fun.

I never rush straight to ST or other simulators, but they're good every once in a while - especially if they are done the innovative Disney way.

cujosr
03-28-2003, 09:03 PM
I wasn't forgetting about Spiderman. I did mention it but the topic at hand is the Motion Simulator in the traditional sense. Spiderman and Indy are hybrids of a sort. Although Spiderman is closer to a Motion Simulator, Indy is just a motion base on wheels.