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merlinjones
03-17-2003, 06:58 AM
Well, interesting Tomorrowland rumors at the DL Update today.

I'm thrilled that Submarine Voyage will be returning. I only wish there were some way to alter the facade of the subs to look more like the Nautilus in this rehab (graft on some of the WDW sub bric-a-brac?), particularly if they are going to retain the Verne-ian Tomorrowland look for the long haul (though I'd still prefer a return to UltraModern).

If Space Mountain retains its Verne look, it really needs the layered do-dads and color approach of the DLP SM facade to make it work. That current paint job and styling does not cut it.

I'm not sure about using the whole CircleVision building for SM's queue. That line was a mess for RR - - But the visual idea of launched Rockets through Tomorrowland is a good one.

If they use that part of the PM track for SM, please tear out the extra unused part over Sub Voyage and Autopia to beautify the surroundings.

If this all happens, I'd still like to see the AstroOrbitor/AstroJets return to the Tomorrowland centerpiece, up high (where Walt wanted it on his napkin sketch), with a dancing waters fountain replacing it at the entrance to Tomorrowland (there's a cool one at the Farmer's Market Grove that would be great in TL). The current set up doesn't work for ultimate visual weenie or riding excitement.

A new CircleVision film would be fine. Getting rid of Honey will not make me shed a single tear.

But please save Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress and bring it home from WDW! It belongs at DL, as a lasting tribute to Walt's futurism and a fitting bit of nostalgia for the 50th. It's all there, all paid for. Why not?

Tref
03-17-2003, 10:50 AM
I could do without the Buzz lightyear tie in, though I guess its inevitable & Buzz is a pretty cool character. HISTA wasn't all that good, anyway. Anything would be an improvement.

It would be sad to see the Circle Vision building used only as a Space Mtn queue, though the additions to SM sound, to use the nomenclature of to-days kids, FAR OUT!

Still ... I sure would miss Circle-vision. Maybe they could re-build it in DCA. Its too good a show to let slip away into dark shadows of Yesterdayland.

i.r.

YellowMan
03-17-2003, 12:08 PM
First off, I'm still skeptical about the subs returning. They only mentioned in the update that they were taking photos and doing work to see how they could bring them back, not that they were beginning the physical process of bringing them back. As good as this sounds, I'm still a little wary about whether or not they'll budget a venture such as returning a classic ride.

Also, the idea of a launch for Space Mountain from the Rocket Rods station sounds well and good, but I'm also a little unsure about this. One feature I really enjoy about our current Space Mountain is that it is to take place in space. The loading station is in a mock space-ship and you don't see the light of day while on the ride. However, with the new proposed setup (which is still just a rumor at this time) has you beginning in the middle of Tomorrowland and launching down the main street of Tomorrowland, back through the buildings along the PeopleMover track and then finally into Space, without once being angled toward the sky. This really seems to kill the idea of space flight to me.
But please save Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress and bring it home from WDW! It belongs at DL, as a lasting tribute to Walt's futurism and a fitting bit of nostalgia for the 50th. And that's just what Tomorrowland is about, tributes to the past and feelings of nostalgia.:rolleyes: Don't get me wrong, Innoventions isn't doing well at all in it's area of prime Tomorrowland real estate, but why not spend money to put in something new? I fail to see the logic in wasting millions of dollars to bring back a relic of the past that only die-hard-Disney-fans over the age of 20 are even going to understand and appreciate?

blusilva
03-17-2003, 12:15 PM
I hope that if they are realistically considering the Rocket Rods/Peoplemover track as a blast off point for Space Mountain that they do it right this time and rebuild it to withstand the stress of the attraction. Because it would bite beyond the telling of it if Space Mountain were to suffer the same fate as the Rocket Rods.

merlinjones
03-17-2003, 12:50 PM
>> Don't get me wrong, Innoventions isn't doing well at all in it's area of prime Tomorrowland real estate, but why not spend money to put in something new? I fail to see the logic in wasting millions of dollars to bring back a relic of the past that only die-hard-Disney-fans over the age of 20 are even going to understand and appreciate?<<

It's hardly an either-or-scenario. Obviously, the Company under Eisner has given up on major reinvestment.

Unless we are content with painted flat dark rides that hawk videos (Pooh, Buzz) or carnival kiddie cars (Bugs), we just aren't going to see cool major additions very often.

In that light, I would rather see extant and relatively cheap to unearth tributes to Walt's Studio's genius (Country Bears, Carousel of Progress, Submarine Voyage)... than NOTHING - - at least until the Company is under new leadership and can regain its vision.

The park would be better off as the world's most fascinating museum, than a ride-thru merchandise warehouse. Visions of Tomorrows past would please new generations more than empty promises, as we have seen the last few years.

Pleasing die hard relics over the age of 20 (!) is clearly better than pleasing no one at all (the current state of things). After all, the boomers have the cash.

And unless one is an airhead marketing clone, surely one realizes that artful things of the past are not bad just because they are old. Sometimes things become even more illuminating with age, especially when quality is on a downhill slope. Ever been to Europe... or is it just too >old< to be relevant?

YellowMan
03-17-2003, 04:35 PM
The park would be better off as the world's most fascinating museum, than a ride-thru merchandise warehouse. Visions of Tomorrows past would please new generations more than empty promises, as we have seen the last few years. Well, while we can agree that neither of us want a "ride-thru mechandise warehouse" I definitely have to disagree with a museum or "Visions of Tomorrows past." The land is Tomorrowland and things need to be done to keep it that way. Did I enjoy the Carousel of Progress? Yes, but I never really thought it fit into Tomorrowland. Spending millions (that's right, millions! As in way more than it would cost to bring back the submarines) just isn't justified to bring back an older attraction. The general public isn't going to be pleased when they get a stale-feeling attraction full of low-tech animatronics. I loved the ride and it was nice to be able to experience it again in WDW, but I seriously doubt that anybody except the Disney fanatics (not as big a group as you seem to think) would care if it was a "classic" or not.
Pleasing die hard relics over the age of 20 (!) is clearly better than pleasing no one at all (the current state of things). After all, the boomers have the cash.Oh yeah, every single person who visits Disneyland leaves crying about how terrible it was and that they will never ever visit again :rolleyes:. The claim that they are pleasing no one actually makes me laugh out loud at how your negative view of anything currently happening in the resort has distorted your view of reality. And while the "boomers" may have the cash now, in 10-15 years the "boomers" will be the "seniors" and a new generation will have taken their place. As much as you may dislike it, the park has to change with the times and offer things that the newer generations are going to enjoy as well because they are going to be the ones with the cash.
And unless one is an airhead marketing clone, surely one realizes that artful things of the past are not bad just because they are old. Sometimes things become even more illuminating with age, especially when quality is on a downhill slope. Ever been to Europe... or is it just too >old< to be relevant? Well in that case, why don't we just let everybody step back from Disneyland and not change a thing ever again. After all, an attraction in a theme park can't possibly lose its audience or its charm because of it aging away as times change around it:rolleyes:.

-YellowMan

AVP
03-17-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by YellowMan
Well, while we can agree that neither of us want a "ride-thru mechandise warehouse"

:raises hand: I would, I would!

(But that's just me :D)

AVP
The Merchandise Goddess

stevemo
03-17-2003, 04:58 PM
YellowMan, I think you may have missed MerlinJones's point. Management is not going to spend ANY money to install ANY creative attractions that meet or surpass the quality standards of the past. The option of replace older attraction with newer and better is not ever going to happen. Replace the old with a plushie store or attration that intends to sell to us more videos and trinkets is the order of the day. If the subs are returned at least the roster of attractions that have the show sensibilities of days gone by will be +1. As far as CoP, I would bet that General Electric has no interest in sponsering this anymore. I would think that it would be cool to re-tool the old Epcot Horizons attraction to work in the CoP format, or maybe the Peoplemover format.

merlinjones
03-17-2003, 05:00 PM
>> Pleasing die hard relics over the age of 20 (!) is clearly better than pleasing no one at all (the
current state of things). <<

>>Oh yeah, every single person who visits Disneyland leaves crying about how terrible it was and that they will never ever visit again . <<

Umm.... we were speaking specifically about the contents of the Carousel Theatre, which is undoubtedly pleasing very few people at this time (Disneyland as a whole obviously does... but not DCA or Tomorrowland).

You argued that it should get something new, but it won't - - that's a fact for now. So why have tacky Innoventions instead of the superior and historic Carousel for the 50th?

>>Well in that case, why don't we just let everybody step back from Disneyland and not change a thing ever again. After all, an attraction in a theme park can't possibly lose its audience or its charm because of it aging away as times change around it.<<

Sorry, Charlie, but this all or nothing argument is foolish. I'm all for cool new additions. What I am not for is CHEAP, TACKY replacements for charming, artful antiques: like a lowest budget possible Pooh for Bears, empty lagoon for Subs, Innoventions for Carousel. It doesn't add up.

If they were doing something good I wouldn't complain. I miss Inner Space terribly, but Star Tours was the right move for the time and very well done - - same goes for Thunder Mtn vs. Mine Train. But that simply is not what we are seeing these days, regardless. Your argument is a hollow hope for new things that are not in the pipeline. Mine is a hollow hope that we can still be charmed by Walt's vision instead of battered with groupthink merchandising opportunities.

Should these things be updated? - - of course, but some of the themes are timeless too. It's all a delicate balance, not something that can be done by artless curmudgeons with a spead sheet and red pen after a hot new seminar on what the public "wants".

Walt's art was labelled corny as far back as the 40's (by his own daughter no less). But people still like to eat corn and be amazed by wonders beyond expectation. No one is impressed by lame and failed attempts to get the greatest profit margin possible out of the "rubes". That aint Disney.

If they can't BE Disney anymore, leave it alone and let future generations enjoy the inspirations their futurist forebears were capable of before the dark ages of corporate greed and downward spirals.

Rule for current Disneyland Management: "Above all, do no harm." (God forbid they actually try to impress us again).

Ace
03-17-2003, 08:34 PM
I think they should put the SM queue in HISTA and put the a new version of the peoplemover on their old track. If they don't get held back by the budget (which it seems like Rasulo doesn't want to happen) then Tomorrowland might actually become... fun? again.

DisneyFan25863
03-17-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by YellowMan
I fail to see the logic in wasting millions of dollars to bring back a relic of the past that only die-hard-Disney-fans over the age of 20 are even going to understand and appreciate?
Hey! I'm only a teenager in Middle School and I know quite a few other "Disney Freaks" that would really like to see the subs return. I can still remember my first trip on the subs, when I thought the cheesy "bubble effect" really ment we were going 1000's of feet down. It was fun. You'd be surprised at the amount of people in middle school who, while trying to be 'cool' and stuff and saying that "Disney is for sissies" actually really like the place. I've seen quite a few people's eyes slightly light up when I mentioned DL, before they saw their friends and said "Hey, you know, I don't like Disneyland. Disneyland is only for little sissies". Somtimes they even beg to see my AP, just to look at the picture of the monorail, before saying, "Oh, well, my MM AP is better".
While some people are open about their feelings about DL, some are not, and insted choose to shun it. But I know, deep down, thay every mention of the place makes them feel warm. That is why I truly believe that "Disneyland is your land" and that is why I think the subs should return.

~DisneyFan25863~

Ace
03-17-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
You'd be surprised at the amount of people in middle school who, while trying to be 'cool' and stuff and saying that "Disney is for sissies" actually really like the place.


Definetly. That happens to me too.

gn2dlnd
03-18-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
You'd be surprised at the amount of people in middle school who, while trying to be 'cool' and stuff and saying that "Disney is for sissies" actually really like the place.

Originally posted by Ace
Definetly. That happens to me too.

What?!? MIDDLE SCHOOL?!?
*checks The MP Member Formerly Known as Squinky's bio*
AAAGGHHH!!! OMG, OMG, OMG!
*runs around like Lucy Van Pelt looking for iodine and hot water*
Dude, you're FIFTEEN? (I'm going to internet jail, I'm going to internet jail) Did you not have your age in your bio when you posted your picture here (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13080&perpage=25&pagenumber=3)?!? I honestly thought you were 25 or 26. No wonder you were confused by my post about your picture! My apologies to you, my apologies to anyone else who might have been confused by my post. Please don't call Martin Bashir on me!
*raises head hung in embarrassment high enough to ask,*
Do people actually use the word "sissy?" Why, back in my day, when we had to walk, um, half a mile to school in the blinding, uh, morning, the bullies were a lot more colorful in their epithets. I can't really think of any that I can post, however.
Again, my absolutely sincere apologies.

YellowMan
03-18-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
Hey! I'm only a teenager in Middle School and I know quite a few other "Disney Freaks" that would really like to see the subs return. If you look back at my post you would see that I was talking about Merlinjones' suggestion of bringing back the Carousel of Progress, not the Submarine Voyage.

DisneyFan25863
03-18-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by YellowMan
If you look back at my post you would see that I was talking about Merlinjones' suggestion of bringing back the Carousel of Progress, not the Submarine Voyage.

Whoops. I didn't notice that. Never mind! Sorry ;)

Ace
03-18-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd
Dude, you're FIFTEEN?


ajhfdkjah WORST. PICTURE. EVER. check the PPP for a better one. and yes, I am 15.... not in middle school, though. 10th grade.

MonorailMan
03-18-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd
What?!? MIDDLE SCHOOL?!?
*checks The MP Member Formerly Known as Squinky's bio*
AAAGGHHH!!! OMG, OMG, OMG!
*runs around like Lucy Van Pelt looking for iodine and hot water*
Dude, you're FIFTEEN?

Well, I beat Ace by one year, and yes I will admit also, that many High Schoolers do fluff off Disney, yet when I strike up a conversation about how some effect works, or the latest gossip, I see a lot of heads turn. :)

gn2dlnd
03-19-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Ace
ajhfdkjah WORST. PICTURE. EVER. check the PPP for a better one. and yes, I am 15.... not in middle school, though. 10th grade.

Ok Ace, now your messin' with me. Whatsa ajhfdkjah, and wheresa PPP? I LMAO at FHQWHGADS! Already e-mailed it to my friends. That ooh-aah part in the middle sounds like the Tiki Room.

Mono, no sooner had they let me out of high school than I was at Disneyland filling out an application, I got a job there within a couple of months after graduation. It was a little after the fact to shut them up in school, but I loved working there. I'm thinkin' first your driver's license, then maybe a Monorail license?

Ace
03-19-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by gn2dlnd
Ok Ace, now your messin' with me. Whatsa ajhfdkjah, and wheresa PPP? I LMAO at FHQWHGADS! Already e-mailed it to my friends. That ooh-aah part in the middle sounds like the Tiki Room.

Mono, no sooner had they let me out of high school than I was at Disneyland filling out an application, I got a job there within a couple of months after graduation. It was a little after the fact to shut them up in school, but I loved working there. I'm thinkin' first your driver's license, then maybe a Monorail license?

ajhfdkjah = frustration
PPP = padders picture page, with pictures of some (most?) of the people who post at MP.

If you liked fhqwhgads, check out the whole website. WWW.HOMESTARRUNNER.COM. In my opinion it's the totally most awesome place on the whole 'net.