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mowsluver
05-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Before I offend anyone, PLEASE understand that is not what I am intending to do, only voice my opinion....
We were at the park yesterday 5/14, arriving in the afternoon. Was kind of busy but have seen MUCH worse!
Anyway, we were waiting for the tram. Myself and 3 kids, 2 in a stroller. They were loading wheelchairs/walkers/disabled before moving the tram up. What I was noticing was that there was 1 'disabled' person and 5 or 6 others in the party, all sitting in the big open seat. This went on.
And on. And on....8 trams later (and they weren't coming one after the other) someone said something to the CM. If the REST of the party sat in the seat BEHIND the open seat, they could have at least fit on a stroller or two. I am 'disbaled' to a point myself, I have a number of health issues. But I wait just like everyone else. But I do have averyone else with me sit in a different seat, because I know that it's tough with strollers.
He was telling everyone to go to the other stroller seat but thats where everyone was heading and THAT line became super long!
OK now 11 trams later I give up and walk. For me (with arthritis in my knees), that is about as far as I can go in one shot. I was in pain before ever getting in the park. For the first time ever, I wished I had not gone to DL!:eek:
Anyway, am I wrong to feel it's ok for part of a 'party' to sit in the seat BEHIND????
Sorry for the long rant....:(

nbaum
05-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Why couldn't you sit in a different part of the tram?

adriennek
05-15-2010, 03:27 PM
When I go with a stroller, I never wait for the front tram car because that is usually the longest line. My first choice if I'm taking the tram is always the back car.

It also helps to fold up the stroller because that greatly opens up seating options beyond those two trams. When I've gone alone with just my kids, I've usually found that if I ask a CM for help, they will help me load the stroller onto the tram. This is another reason I like the back of the tram because there is always a CM back there.

That said, and this is much easier for me because I don't have any health issues, if I can see that the tram line is that long, I always walk.

Adrienne

mowsluver
05-15-2010, 03:28 PM
I couldn't sit in one of the 'regular' seats because I have a double stroller and was hold an 8 month old. The 2 1/2 year old usually sits in the next seat with the 10 year old.
The double stroller will not fold enough to fit in between the seats.

mowsluver
05-15-2010, 03:35 PM
I have always been ok with the waiting, especially at the END of the day, but this was just a little bit much for me yesterday...
The CM's have always been a great help, as well as others waiting in line. I have been helped and I try to help others. I know about waiting, in fact I expect to wait. BUt as stated, I will have anyone else with me, sit in the next seat so that one more stroller can be loaded.
It doesn't help that I am not a small person and have bad knees, have a baby and diaper bag...LOL! All in all it is not an easy day out for me, but always worth it. Yesterday I was just too tired and uncomfortable before even getting to the park for me to enjoy it.

Malcon10t
05-15-2010, 03:55 PM
It was my understanding that the front row was for the disabled, and if there was space left over, then others could use it.

That said, to the point of others sitting with the handicapped user, I don't agree. If there are 6 people, yes, they should consider splitting up so additional HA folks can join them. But if there are 3-4 of us, I am not going to agree. I would feel separated from my group if I sat in the front row and the rest of my family sat elsewhere. Yes, we should be able to sit together. I am sorry if it delayed you. When you boarded, there were 4 of you, did you have 2 sit in the row behind you to make room for others?

AVP
05-15-2010, 04:36 PM
It was my understanding that the front row was for the disabled, and if there was space left over, then others could use it.Sorry, I have to strongly disagree with this. The front row is accessible, it's not reserved. Guests in wheelchairs usually have priority for that very front row when the tram is loading at a ramp station, but that doesn't mean each wheelchair party has claim to the whole darn thing. There are four rows in each car where people who are not dealing with a wheelchair / large stroller can sit, and only one where they can. I think it's inconsiderate to fill that entire car with people who CAN easily sit in another row, thus preventing other people who really don't have a choice from sitting there, just because you don't want to be separated from your party for the whole 5 minutes it takes to get to/from the parking structure. When I'm visiting with a group, we frequently split up into multiple rows so we can fit on one tram. It's just not that big of an issue.

And mind you - this is spoken as someone who has had to wait for many, many, many trams so we could get into the wheelchair-accessible row, and we've ALWAYS had the ambulatory members of our group sit in the next row to free up space. It's simply common courtesy.

AVP

MammaSilva
05-15-2010, 05:32 PM
It's been our experience loading that the trams stop at the load zone for wheelchairs/scooters, load the folks there then pull up. As a rule our group is a wheelchair and a scooter and 4 others but the CM's seat us all together because realistically between the two there really isn't room for yet another wheelchair or stroller. Accessible means the trams stop and load those groups first and the load zone is not set up to move the ambulatory members to the rows behind the wider row. I'm not disagreeing that it's designed to be accessible not reserved, I'm just saying that the way they have the load zone designed I see why the groups are together. You don't have to sit with your group to get to the structure or the gates but it would be nice to be on the same tram and seperating at the loading zone will impact that issue.

We used to have a stroller included in our group and we would get glares but you know what, I am sorry 'you' had to wait, I'm sorry I need the use of a mobility device and that my daughter needs her wheelchair accessible, your child will out grow the need for the stroller, my child won't outgrow the need for her chair.

mowsluver
05-15-2010, 06:07 PM
Malcon10t..yes, I sat holding the 8 month old and I had the other 2 sit in the next row. I always do that. That way another stroller can fit up front.
And I would never expect a group to be split up on totally different trams. But when they are loaded first, at the ramp, the rest of the group can easily sit right behind them. I also understand that some people NEED a person or 2 with them, but 5 or 6? Sorry, I do not see the need for that.

Mamma Silva, please, you are the last person I would ever want to offend! I have 'followed' you and Missy on here and hope someday to run into you at the park. My daughter was in USMC boot camp a few years ago when Missy was in the hospital and though she doesn't pray, during the little rest they got during the crucible, she carved Missy's name and a cross into a tree, at Parris Island.

I myself am trying to enjoy my days before I need a wheelchair or scooter. My knees get worse everyday, it seems. Right now my daughter is in Afghanistan, and I am trying my best to keep her children occupied and a grouchy grandma is not much fun...

If I offended anyone, believe me that was not my purpose.

Toocherie
05-15-2010, 06:10 PM
IIRC, when you load at the handicapped accessible ramp, I don't believe other members of the party have the choice to sit elsewhere. The ramp leading in to the handicapped accessible row only goes to that row. I guess the other members of the party could go and stand in line, but then they might end up on different trams. I doubt it would be safe for them to load otherwise in that area.

The fact that the front rows aren't labeled "handcapped priority" has always been a sore subject with me. When I am alone or with friends, I will usually sit in a "regular" row--however, if I am having a bad fibro/arthritis day, some days it would be very difficult for me to get up and into a row without the extra room to move my legs around--I know that some stroller users have given me the "eye" for taking up valuable 'stroller' room--but then they don't know about my disability (and I'm not about to tell them). The WDW busses are clearly marked as to handicapped accessibility and priority--why not the trams?

I usually rent a scooter so don't usually have a GAC card--but if I had one I would not hesitate to flash one at a CM if someone gave me much hassle. At least one large row should be RESERVED for handicapped==whether having to use the ramp or not. And not to to offend the OP, but I have definitely felt that some stroller users feel a sense of entitlement about using those rows. I don't know this for a fact, but it seems to me that one of the cars (at least) has an extra large opening/area--which I think is for handicapped--and the rest of the cars have a larger than normal area that would accommodate strollers.

Toocherie
05-15-2010, 06:12 PM
And I would never expect a group to be split up on totally different trams. But when they are loaded first, at the ramp, the rest of the group can easily sit right behind them. I also understand that some people NEED a person or 2 with them, but 5 or 6? Sorry, I do not see the need for that.

If I offended anyone, believe me that was not my purpose.

You did not offend anyone!

But see my prior message--I don't think they can "easily" sit right behind them--the metal ramp goes across and only into the handicapped row. I don't believe there is a chance for anyone in the party to get to another row.

disneyfn
05-15-2010, 06:15 PM
I may be wrong but isn't there a special van that takes wheel chair folks to the park? This should free up the front of the tram for strollers only.

Malcon10t
05-15-2010, 06:24 PM
IIRC, when you load at the handicapped accessible ramp, I don't believe other members of the party have the choice to sit elsewhere. The ramp leading in to the handicapped accessible row only goes to that row. Thank you for clarifying this. I've only used the parking structure once in the last 10 years, and it was such a PAIN, we make sure we are at a nearby hotel that will allow us to leave the car on the last day.

The one time we did use it, it was very difficult to load as the CMs were insisting we needed to be in the first row, but we weren't at the HA loading area and strollers kept pushing us out of the way until the CMs blocked them for us and we were able to load. (Yes, we got the stink eye as there were only 4 of us with the dog and they didn't let strollers on that row.) We just said NEVER AGAIN. So, while we have parking on our APs, it doesn't get used. I wish they would let us deduct it.

adriennek
05-15-2010, 06:27 PM
I may be wrong but isn't there a special van that takes wheel chair folks to the park? This should free up the front of the tram for strollers only.

Sometimes but it's not always available. That said, the trams car in question is designed for HCA. If strollers get to use it so that they don't have to fold up, that's a bonus!

I do agree with AVP that the trams are accessible, not reserved. But, the first priority should be HCA. The front tram isn't ever supposed to be "strollers only". It's a convenience not an entitlement. :)

Adrienne

MammaSilva
05-15-2010, 06:48 PM
Mowsluver, first of all let me say thank you to your daughter for her service to our country. I remember your sharing the crucible story when Missy was so ill. Other Marines in my life thought it was fantastic. Having said that ...


I am not offended.

I'm just discussing the fact that it is not as simple as it sounds to split a group to open up that space, in MY original post I mentioned that the load platform is first so everyone with the wheelchair/scooter is going to be loaded before the others, the line moves too fast for a CM to stop the groups waiting to let the group 'split' into another row to make room up in the wider row. Others have discussed the ramp area vs splitting groups. If they redesigned the load zone then possibly but not as it is currently designed to load.

Mowsluver, as for your group splitting up, I don't know anything about your 10 year old and while I adore the 11 year old in my life and he is a very responsible 11 year old I don't know that I'd task him with the safety of a 2.5 year old on the tram in a row behind me or even ahead of me. Toddlers are notoriously fast and a 10 year old doesn't have the reflexes a mom would to keep the toddler in a safe space IMHO.


As for the HCA van, that is very hit or miss, they have 2 and if one is broken and the other driver is on break it can be an hour before that service is available. We use it whenever possible more for the fact that we aren't fighting strollers and pushy tired want to go home NOW folks.

codewoman
05-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I think what we're talking about here is a curb-cut issue.

Remember when sidewalks used to have a normal curb at the corner? If someone was in a wheelchair, they had to go into the street at the nearest driveway. Often this would take them into or pretty close to traffic and it was very dangerous. Handicapped advocates lobbied for and won the right to make curb-cuts at the corners so those in wheelchairs could cross safely at the corner, like everyone else. And many people protested that it was going to be terribly expensive, just to benefit a small number of the population. Then it was discovered that this curb-cut was also very useful to many others: those who used walkers and canes, strollers, bicycles, skateboards, and eventually scooters.

The parking lot trams have wide rows for the use of handicapped people who need extra room (please know that I have never actually seen an actual parking lot tram). And because this is very handy for people in strollers, they are allowed to use them when handicapped folks don't need them (much like the curb-cuts). And, as is practice at Disney, so are the remainder of the people in their party. Just as those people in their party "get" to park in handicapped parking (sometimes), have access to the rides, sit with them in theatres and otherwise accompany the handicapped person in the park. Sometimes, it has its advantages, true. Sometimes, it doesn't. But the whole idea is to try to treat the handicapped person as close to "like everyone else" as possible. And that means they get to enjoy the park with their friends and family. Even if that means that folks with strollers have to wait a while.

Eleven trams does seem like a lot! And I agree that would be very frustrating. But I think it bears no comparison to the many daily frustrations of the people with handicaps (visible or not).

SigalTchelet
05-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Very well said, Codewoman! I had never considered the troubles and inconveniences that the handicapped went through, until I became handicapped myself. I am grateful for all the conveniences provided for the handicapped, especially at Disneyland, so we can enjoy the park as much as the next person! I went last October and really had such a great time. It was especially fun riding the scooter!

AVP
05-16-2010, 10:06 AM
I'm just discussing the fact that it is not as simple as it sounds to split a group to open up that space.You are correct, if your entire party walks up the ramp with the wheelchair user, you're all going to be loaded into the front row because there's no access from the ramp to another row.

Knowing this, back when Tony was using a wheelchair and we were visiting with a group, one person would accompany Tony up the ramp, and the rest of the group would load into the second row from the ground. This served a dual purpose - it allowed for more space in the front row for people with wheelchairs / strollers, AND those folks waiting on the ground could act as a "barrier" to make sure someone with a stroller didn't jump into the accessible row before the CM could get out of the cab to lower the ramp.

That was our solution for making the most of a very limited resource.

AVP

MammaSilva
05-16-2010, 10:38 AM
I agree AVP that your solution was very considerate but under the circumstances described by the OP that process wouldn't have worked in this particular situation. If all the lines were long but the HCA ramp was empty then Tony and whoever went with him would have ended up at the destination several trams ahead of the rest of the party. While we've been known to transfer missy into a seat and fold her chair to make room for more people in the HCA area, however in our particular case splitting into two groups with that level of difference in load times would not be something we'd be willing to do. It would fall under the same situation as everyone riding in my car gets to walk from an HCA parking spot vs the top floor of the structure. Even in the OP's situation I can't see her splitting that into two groups if she couldn't gaurantee them both being on the same tram in two adjoining rows.

I think that in this case there was no 'win' situation for someone with a large jogging stroller that didn't get into the back row as soon as they arrived at the load area. The front row is accessible and even the HCA G.A.C. policy inside the parks are for groups up to six which pretty much fills the row when you include the space that the wheelchair or ecv takes up so I don't see the CM's asking a group to split up.

kpcrone
05-31-2010, 10:06 PM
Don't ride the trams, just walk! :)

lovindisneyland
06-01-2010, 12:06 PM
the op's question is good.. i can see why he or she had a problem, but then again that front two double seats are not reserved but they are there for disabled. but even so, every car attatched to the tram has a double seat in the front! :) although i have to admit i have seen stroller families not consider the disabled and just take up all the room possible! and that is not cool!

MammaSilva
06-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Well the 'double/HCA' row is the front row on every tram so is a double wide row that accomodates oversized strollers the last row on every tram. If I were a family with an oversized stroller I would automatically find a 'last row' line so I wasn't competing with HCA guests for space. The front line in the loading area might look shorter at first but that line is in direct competition with any disabled guests that would load from the platform and have the space before the tram moves forward for general loading, the last row is as long as it is with no surprises when the tram arrives, if that makes sense?

ginap73
06-05-2010, 01:38 PM
We use the front row when we use the tram with my grandma's wheelchair. there's 4 in our party. it's quite an adventure in itself just to get grandma from the parking structure to the park on the tram, sometimes she doesn't do well on the tram cause she doesn't know where she is until she gets into disneyland and hears the music on main street. so all 3 of us usually are talking to her so she knows we are all there.

TDASuit
06-11-2010, 11:12 PM
I can't recommend parking at the Toy Story lot enough. The last four visits, we have parked there and it is so much easier for our family to get in and out of DLR.

newhdplayer
06-12-2010, 07:48 PM
I can't recommend parking at the Toy Story lot enough. The last four visits, we have parked there and it is so much easier for our family to get in and out of DLR.


We did that yesterday. No lines, no crowds, and a 7 minute bus ride to the "unbusy" side of the entry plaza.