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D1Prnzs
01-13-2010, 04:39 AM
Has anyone had a potentially dangerous experience on Big Thunder Mountain while riding with a smaller person?

I have been trying to get Disney to put in individual lap bars on Big Thunder for years (I know they can do this because they did for Space) because my sister always has a scary potentially dangerous time on the ride. All Disney ever does is have their personal injury lawyer contact me to let me know the statute of limitations on suing them. I always tell them I have no interest in suing them and that I only want the situation improved to prevent any injury to others. I kind of let it go over the years and we just avoid the ride, but now I'm wondering if others have had this problem? Maybe we can get Disney to improve their ride.

My sister is tiny for an adult (the size of an 11-year old) so whenever she rides with anyone, the lap bar always leaves a huge gap for her (I'm large, but she has the problem with her very skinny BF also). She slides very badly on the ride (to the point that she is on her back on the seat and her chest is against the bar) that it can potentially be dangerous. No matter how we try to hold her up, it's almost impossible and she always ends-up on her back with terror in her eyes. There have been occasions when she was completely off of the seat, her face against the bar and her hands gripping onto it for dear life.

I thought the problem was mutually exclusive to her until my friend also reported that she had problems keeping her little sister from sliding off the seat (but she was able to do so because her sister only weighed 40 pounds instead of the 100+ pounds my sister weighed). I reported the "new" development to Disney and they had their lawyer talk to me again and advised me that I have however long to seek damages. I told them I only want the problem fixed. If they can't install individual lap bars on the trains that they have, I'm sure ordering new seats will be a lot less costly than if someone actually gets hurt on the ride because of this problem. I tried a few more times and pointed out different things to them (how they improved Space, pointed out different ways someone can get hurt, etc.) to no avail so I finally gave-up. No more BTM when I take my sister:crying:.

She does not have this problem on any other fast moving ride at DL and DCA because they all have individual lap bars to keep her in her seat. I really don't understand their inaction. I want a video of what happens during a ride with her to show how bad it gets, but I consider ourselves fortunate so far she hasn't gotten hurt we don't want to tempt fate. She's already disabled, it would really suck if she broke her back and became paralyzed. Has anyone, especially parents riding with small children, had a similar experience where their child practically slips out of their seat? Maybe if there are a bunch of frightened parents that contact Disney about this problem, they might finally do something about it to make BTM as fun, safe, and enjoyable for everyone as possible. It seems like such a simple fix to me, am I wrong to try to advocate this minor change?

orchid2
01-13-2010, 04:54 AM
I've never had this problem but just don't understand why Disney doesn't take your problem more serious. This scares me just thinking about what could happen, sad that we can't get you to people inside Disney that would try to help with this problem.

My problem is with any ride with the brace that comes over the head (screaming) I'm short and my head bangs from side to side and end up with a headache, don't do those kind of rides anymore, and I love them, sadly it's my lost.

Tinkermommy
01-13-2010, 05:27 AM
There have been occasions when she was completely off of the seat, her face against the bar and her hands gripping onto it for dear life.

Under the circumstances described, I'm wondering why you would have continued taking her on the ride.

I do know what you're describing. A few months ago, I rode Thunder with a 7-year-old who was considerably smaller than me. But when I pulled the lap bar down and saw the gap, I just put my arm around her, and we had no difficulty at all.

I'm not sure individual lap bars would work on this ride. On Space, it's a one-butt per seat design. On Thunder, you can have two people or three people on a bench. It seems to me it would be a pretty significant redesign to make individual lap bars, and would change the loading dynamic because you'd eliminate the three person option.

I would hazard a guess that thousands of children safely ride Thunder every day. I understand it doesn't feel safe to you -- can you ride as a group of three, with her in the middle? That's how we used to ride when my daughter was small. Just a thought.

Drince88
01-13-2010, 05:44 AM
I would hazard a guess that thousands of children safely ride Thunder every day. I understand it doesn't feel safe to you -- can you ride as a group of three, with her in the middle? That's how we used to ride when my daughter was small. Just a thought.
The other solution would be to ask the loader to let her ride by herself, so that SHE controls the height of the lap bar.

Mullholland Madness used to have one lap bar (again a two-person only ride) but it was a T design. If there was a significant size difference, the smaller person got a big foam donut over their half of the T. Again, though, that would take a major redesign of the ride vehicles.

Malcon10t
01-13-2010, 05:51 AM
Under the circumstances described, I'm wondering why you would have continued taking her on the ride.

I do know what you're describing. A few months ago, I rode Thunder with a 7-year-old who was considerably smaller than me. But when I pulled the lap bar down and saw the gap, I just put my arm around her, and we had no difficulty at all.

I'm not sure individual lap bars would work on this ride. On Space, it's a one-butt per seat design. On Thunder, you can have two people or three people on a bench. It seems to me it would be a pretty significant redesign to make individual lap bars, and would change the loading dynamic because you'd eliminate the three person option.

I would hazard a guess that thousands of children safely ride Thunder every day. I understand it doesn't feel safe to you -- can you ride as a group of three, with her in the middle? That's how we used to ride when my daughter was small. Just a thought.I have to agree with TM. Why do you keep taking her on a ride you feel is dangerous.

I am a large person. I ride this with a small 6yo (and a small 4yo.) I generally put my arm around them. That said, I have looked at the gap by the door, and realize while they can slide all over the seat, they will not be able to slide out the door. The gap from their lap to the bar is huge, so they can bounce up, which is why I hang on to them.

You are talking about a massive redesign of the ride vehicle.

mechurchlady
01-13-2010, 06:06 AM
I would not take someone on a ride if there was a safety issue. I do not ride Indy though I so want to ride because of my back. Same for Autopia and if I ever get back to Animal Kingdom I will ride the safari up from or not at all. Disney has people who can make mock ups of the ride and see if what you are saying is true. It has been reported online for years and is a known danger.

Disney either can cough up the bucks now for redesigning the lap bars or wait until a tragedy occurs and they pay with bad publicity and lawsuits. They reconfigured Mullhulond Madness so they can reconfigure other rides. Over the years they have added loops between the legs, safety gates, and other features so why not make this safe.

The last time I rode with a smaller person I was very concerned for their safety and was hurting from squishing the bar down very tight. I like a little hang time and the feel of my rump off the seat but not if I could go flying out of the ride.

houseofmouse
01-13-2010, 06:56 AM
This has been an issue for forever! My kids are now, 15,13 and 11 and I have been hanging on to them for as long as they were little. Even this summer, I still held onto my daughter who is 11. However, I never felt she would be hung by the bar, I just felt like she bounced too high. I usually would make the lap bar pretty snug on my legs, so I was pretty uncomfortable. If I ever felt my kids were in real danger I would not let theme ride.
I agree though, individual bars would have been a better idea to start with. A redesign is possible, but the question becomes do they want to spend the money and time on it?

Does your sister have issues keeping her body upright? Does she have special needs? Forgive me if it is insulting but the way you describe how she ends up on the ride makes me wonder. So yes, I would keep her off the ride for now. As much as a downer as that is.

lauramaynot
01-13-2010, 07:21 AM
We always have our 3 kids older kids who are relatively the same size ride together so that the lap bar comes down as far as it possibly can (even then they have some room though since the bar doesn't go down far enough) With our very little ones, we always ride DH and I with the little one in between us so they don't slide around too much and we hang on to them. I like the ride the way it is with one lap bar since I like being able to ride 3 to a car, but I wouldn't mind having the removeable sleeve thing like they use on mulhulland madness for younger kids. The only problem with that is that it might make the load/unload times longer and of course expense since they would have to redesign the cars...

I don't think your wrong at all, to want to have things as safe as possible for your sister. I do however believe that Disney does it's best to post information and warnings about all of their attractions. Not everyone can ride every attraction - which can seriously suck - I have little kids who can't ride any of the mountains. Sometimes one of us will wait out and sometimes we will just choose to only do things that we can all do together. You make the most of your situation YK? If she enjoys all the other attractions at DLR then she has alot of other choices.

The old man
01-13-2010, 07:48 AM
I have to agree with TM. Why do you keep taking her on a ride you feel is dangerous.


I was wondering about "taking her." She's an adult, doesn't see make her own decisions? The OP talked about "terror in her eyes." I guess I wouldn't go on it if it was me.

The old man
01-13-2010, 07:50 AM
This has been an issue for forever! My kids are now, 15,13 and 11 and I have been hanging on to them for as long as they were little.
My daughter has been riding, and loving, this ride since she was 5. I have never seen any problem with it and she's petite. I've never felt she was going to fly out of the ride.

cstephens
01-13-2010, 07:54 AM
I do have problems with the lap bar when I ride with the husband because he has long legs, so the bar doesn't come down all the way on me. That means I get lifted off my seat during some of the drops, which is fun and a little frightening but I just know to hold on.

I agree with the questions of why your sister keeps going on if it really is that terrifying for her, and yes, the solution is to let her ride by herself or someone else of equal height. And yes, I've seen plenty of kids ride with adults who have their arm around them.

adriennek
01-13-2010, 08:03 AM
I want a video of what happens during a ride with her to show how bad it gets, but I consider ourselves fortunate so far she hasn't gotten hurt we don't want to tempt fate. She's already disabled, it would really suck if she broke her back and became paralyzed. Has anyone, especially parents riding with small children, had a similar experience where their child practically slips out of their seat? Maybe if there are a bunch of frightened parents that contact Disney about this problem, they might finally do something about it to make BTM as fun, safe, and enjoyable for everyone as possible. It seems like such a simple fix to me, am I wrong to try to advocate this minor change?

Does your sister have the upper body strength to even ride this ride? It sounds to me like there's an issue here that is over and beyond the average visitor.

Thunder Mountain has been one of the first rides my children have been able to ride when they are tall enough. When they hit 40", this is the first coaster they try. I have never been on this ride with a child who did no have the upper body strength to hold himself up.

Adrienne

CariBelle
01-13-2010, 08:06 AM
I have to agree with TM. Why do you keep taking her on a ride you feel is dangerous.


Ditto. If the ride is "filling her with terror" why even go on it? Is it because you want to ride and you have to take her along? I highly doubt Disney has any plans for changing these ride vehicles anytime soon, the risk for danger isn't that high or people would be flying out of the cars left and right because different sized people ride together all the time, as shown by this thread.
And like someone else said, not everyone can ride every ride. If this is the only ride that you can't do in all of Disneyland and DCA because of your sister's disability (which I assume makes her not be able to hold on? I can't see another reason why should would end up laying down in the car) then I would just write it off and enjoy my day.

houseofmouse
01-13-2010, 08:33 AM
My daughter has been riding, and loving, this ride since she was 5. I have never seen any problem with it and she's petite. I've never felt she was going to fly out of the ride.
I am overprotective that way, or maybe my DD is super light.

I do have problems with the lap bar when I ride with the husband. That means I get lifted off my seat during some of the drops, which is fun and a little frightening but I just know to hold on.


Guess it is just not me Old Man. I never said she would fly off just that she gets bounced pretty good. As did my very light son when he was little. However, everyone may have rides they have to skip, maybe D1Prinz this one is yours.

DwarfPlanet
01-13-2010, 08:54 AM
Sorry never had this problem on Big Thunder when my kids were younger or with my wife.

MammaSilva
01-13-2010, 08:55 AM
Note that pretty young woman in my avatar....she has multiple disablities and she gets to experience Disneyland on average 3 or 4 times a year. Every trip she rides Big Thunder, she's tiny...4'10" runs about 100 pounds soaking wet (after riding splash) on average...we have never had the issue you are describing, I'd say you are the one putting your sister at risk by taking her on an attraction that is beyond her abilty to enjoy due to the ride vehicle lap bar or her own strength issues.

Missy has been riding BTRR since she was tall enough to and she uses a wheelchair most days in the park, she has extreme right side weakness so her strength is an issue. Those of us who ride with her (and the list is long from her 'babies' who are now 11 and 8 ...littles is still too short to ride with her, to their mamma to her cousins to her MOM who is not petite by any stretch...she never is at risk of sliding under the bar or being 'hung' by it.

While I do appreciate that not all the attractions are as 'accessible' for the disabled guests as they 'could' be I say Disney in general does a damn fine job of making the park a place I can safely bring my daughter and her peers to enjoy the fun and imagination that was intended at the park.

bennette
01-13-2010, 09:52 AM
Hmm. I'm was a small, 100 pound woman for many years as the result of a health condition. I don't ride Big Thunder Mountain with someone who is much larger than I am because of the problem with the bar height. It's not that I think I'm going to fall out, but I do slide around which lessens my enjoyment of the ride. If there is a significant size difference between our parties and little kids riding with us, either the smallest adult rides with them or they ride alone. We do fine, although I am tend to point it out to first time guests.

I also have an unstable spine; I have a condition that can lead to paralysis in rare instances. I limit my rides on Big Thunder Mountain and a couple of other DLR rides not because I think I'll end up paralyzed, but because they aggravate my spine too much to enjoy my day in the park. I think Disney does an excellent job of posting warning signs for people who might potentially be injured. If I thought there was a chance of paralysis on a ride, however, I wouldn't wait for signage or ask Disney to redesign it for my very rare condition. I'd just stop riding it. (There are a couple of rides at other parks I simply do not ride. Ever.)

I miss Indiana Jones, for example, but I like my spine better. There is still plenty I can do at the parks.

Malcon10t
01-13-2010, 10:28 AM
I miss Indiana Jones, for example, but I like my spine better. There is still plenty I can do at the parks.
I also skip Star Tours, and limit the rides on BTMRR and Space Mountain.

If we are ever at the park at the same time, you can join me on the bench and pet the puppy while the kids ride?

TowerofTerror
01-13-2010, 11:26 AM
still big thunder mountain has one lap to go across everyone and not individual one

bennette
01-13-2010, 12:30 PM
I also skip Star Tours, and limit the rides on BTMRR and Space Mountain.

If we are ever at the park at the same time, you can join me on the bench and pet the puppy while the kids ride?

Oddly enough, Star Tours don't bother me, nor does Space Mountain since the redo. Nor Matterhorn, which I can't quite figure out (it's bumpy but maybe it's too slow to bother me?). I am finding the start of Toy Story Midway Mania a little rough, so that one is probably coming off the list. (Don't ask me! I thought it was weird, too.)

I do one round on Indy or BTMRR on the occasional basis. One or the other, never both. But Expedition Everest was a one time only experience for me. Fortunately I like most Disney queues and I don't mind walking through with someone and then just waiting for them at the exit.

IF I ever see you at the parks, I'll probably pass out! But we can certainly discuss the bench thing if the opportunity comes up.

MikenTra
01-13-2010, 12:42 PM
I like the idea above of asking for her own seat so she can cram the bar down nice and tight! I don't think I've ever heard of anybody getting thrown out of the BTMRR trains under normal operating conditions and with thousands and thousands of people of all different sizes riding the ride together without being ejected (under normal conditions) it would lead me to believe that the ride is OK as is. And I don't think that fitting the existing trains with two lap bars per seat would be that easy so until it is shown to be a problem (by someone being thrown out) they won't change the restraints.

mswong40
01-13-2010, 01:59 PM
I sometimes wonder if maybe they could put seat belts in for smaller riders? Still keep the lap bar for more bigger riders and for extra precaution? and then the smaller person can easily strap themselves in, although I suppose in the OP's case it seems more of a problem with her sister being unable to maintain herself upright? (Maybe our guesses are wrong) But definitely a plus for us wanting to ride with our smaller kids? Just a random thought.

AJDerrick
01-13-2010, 03:08 PM
My body topped out at 4'11" and 100 pounds, but even when I was just barely tall enough to ride I was never frightened of slipping under the bar. I'm not entirely sure I could bend that way if I wanted to!

That being said, seat belts probably wouldn't be the worst idea for any ride--it's surprising what people get hurt on. Redoing the lap bars would be wayyyyy messier than just bolting some seat belts in. Plus I think part of what makes individual lap bars work on things like Space is that the seats are bucket-ish, molded deals. Even having a tight bar on BTRR can't mold you into the seat to keep you from sliding left and right.

Really, though, I think if we have realistic expectations we'll all admit there's something there we opt out of one reason or another. If you're terrified, no matter why, that's probably the thing to opt out of.

adriennek
01-13-2010, 03:13 PM
It would take a lot to make seatbelts happen on Thunder Mountain. Thunder is one of those rides that has a short time-frame to get riders on and off before the ride has to go down. It's not as tight as Space, but it's a tight time-frame. Seatbelts would be an added complication.

Adrienne

aznewsboy
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
I have noticed the bar doesn't seem to come down enough on my now 6 year old since he started riding BTM. It concerned me enough to hold on to him but not enough to not go on it. He never noticed though.