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Teddi
10-13-2009, 07:46 PM
Is it probable that Disney may change (add) blockout dates to the So Cal and DAPs next year in response to the Holloweentime attendance? Or is this year more "off" because of the Celebrate promo? I just wonder if something will end up having to "give" in terms of traffic control and if it will end up coming out of the AP population.

In general I'm conflicted about how "busy" the parks would be ideally (for all). Obviously we like quiet and slow and fast lines.... but i appreciate they are a business and that the more visitors justifies the ability to keep growing the "resort". The more they add, the more incentive there is for my family do to longer stays in Anaheim (so that might get the city to be on board too). Looking back, it turns out we were there on a capacity day- and it really is just aLOT of people. I don't mind busy, but I do mind it when it's hard to walk around.

I compare to DL as I grew up. It wasn't until the 90's that we ever actually stayed more than 1 day. I love the change. DCA isn't perfect, but it's added stuff that we all like to do. I really can't wait til I get to at least try GCH, and have enjoyed stays at the DLH.

Bottomline, is, I really wonder if pressing 1,000,000 APs is really just too much from a logistics POV.

Walt'sbirthdaygirl
10-13-2009, 08:19 PM
one millions AP's is a scary thought. It's gotten to the point that even off season Friday's and Sunday's are so packed they are crowded to the point of discomfort. I can't even imagine thousands more crowding the walkways.

AVP
10-13-2009, 09:26 PM
I think we're going to see another significant change in the AP program, to include higher prices and more blockout dates, in the very near future - probably before the Christmas gift pass buying / renewal season begins. When DCA opened, most existing APs had their passes pro-rated to a 12/31 expiration date, and it's clear a huge number of APs are purchased and given as holiday presents each year. I don't know what percentage of APs expire in December/January, but I'd guess as high as 60%. This makes late November the ideal time to announce any changes, as you'll catch the largest wave of renewals within 2 months.

AVP

Teddi
10-13-2009, 10:03 PM
This makes late November the ideal time to announce any changes, as you'll catch the largest wave of renewals within 2 months.

Ughh.... if they did add blockout dates, those would apply to all APs active, or just to those purchased under those rules? We AP'd in the end of July... though we WERE going to AP my DH is Dec. It would really a PITA if we end up w/substantially different block out dates.

olegc
10-14-2009, 07:17 AM
I think we're going to see another significant change in the AP program, to include higher prices and more blockout dates, in the very near future - probably before the Christmas gift pass buying / renewal season begins. When DCA opened, most existing APs had their passes pro-rated to a 12/31 expiration date, and it's clear a huge number of APs are purchased and given as holiday presents each year. I don't know what percentage of APs expire in December/January, but I'd guess as high as 60%. This makes late November the ideal time to announce any changes, as you'll catch the largest wave of renewals within 2 months.

AVP

i know it was proposed elsewhere that the blockouts may be staggered in order to offset the mass of humanity that comes in on non-blockout dates. It's been overly documented on MP from guests who say now the off-seasons are more crowded than the traditional on-season. I just wonder if the resort will REALLY take the time to analyze this and come up with a unique program - or will they simply raise prices and add dates because it's the easier thing to do. The whole notion of customer service and satisfaction is now secondary to simply controlling operational costs and improving profits. Please - I understand it's a business - I have paid the Premium price for 10 years now (2 of them while still unemployed) so I buy what I think is valuable to me - but for the overall program, and enjoyment for all, there has to be some way to make the program different.

And, selfishly, the price point increase using linear math needs to change a little too. Seems like price increases are treated across the board simply by how many days you get - when if supposedly controlling the price helps limit attendance, increasing the top end is really just a way to ensure up front revenue - and let everyone else fend for themselves with the massive crowds..

VickiC
10-14-2009, 07:25 AM
Ughh.... if they did add blockout dates, those would apply to all APs active, or just to those purchased under those rules? We AP'd in the end of July... though we WERE going to AP my DH is Dec. It would really a PITA if we end up w/substantially different block out dates.

No, I don't think they would change those already published, they'd make modifications further out, or add new levels.

Most likely no changes just more $$$.

maui0512
10-14-2009, 07:31 AM
I still think we have too many levels of passes. Florida has two levels of AP's. We have four. Seems like we should go with Premium and Deluxe and adjust the price. On Saturdays and Sundays, while the park is still busy, it's nothing like Fridays when all four levels of passes can get in. That and the free birthday ticket is making for crazy attendance levels. And I'm not picking on the lower level passes but unfortunately alot of the two lower level passes are the kids showing up. Not supervised and running around misbehaving. It may not be a bad thing to lose some of those kids. I'm not saying all the kids, just a select few.

Bytebear
10-14-2009, 08:30 AM
I agree with removing the lower passes. And I think think the monthly payment plan is adding a lot more people than they expected. I really don't know what Disney's strategy has been? Are they trying to make the parks as crowded as possible? Do they get more money out of people who buy any level of pass than they would via a single ticket entry? I wonder if they will make the Premium very expensive, and have a Deluxe that is more reasonable but with lots of blackout days. Then they could have special SoCal deals, like buy a 4 day hopper for a great rate, or have them valid for up to 3 months.

I am just glad that I recently renewed my AP so I don't have to deal with these issues for another year.

SoCalSteven
10-14-2009, 08:32 AM
Given the crowds experienced last Friday, it wouldn't be unreasonable to black out the SoCal passes on Fridays as well. It seems that the SoCal passes are cheap enough that they would still be a good value.

Seeing as I always get the Premium pass (at a Premium price I might add!) I would hope that they do what they can to make sure that the park isn't unreasonable crowded every day. That seems counter intuitive for a business, but if I'm shoulder to shoulder with everyone all day, every day, I'm going to drop my AP. When I go to Disneyland, I want to relax, not fight crowds!

MouseDad32
10-14-2009, 09:07 AM
On buying a AP.... whats the fun of it if your just standing around all day shoulder to shoulder with no room to breath.

houseofmouse
10-14-2009, 09:14 AM
Are you talking about next year? They just raised prices on AP's and parking for AP's in September. Really they may do it again before the end of this year? Surely no.

AVP
10-14-2009, 09:20 AM
Are you talking about next year? They just raised prices on AP's and parking for AP's in September. Really they may do it again before the end of this year? Surely no.I think there's a good chance they will.

AVP

K & S
10-14-2009, 09:43 AM
In reality the prices next year will be higher than this year simply because no one will have the benefit of the "Get in Free on Your Birthday" credit to apply as either a down payment on an AP, or just to reduce the cost.

That may reduce the number of people renewing their AP next year.

houseofmouse
10-14-2009, 09:52 AM
I think there's a good chance they will.

AVP

Well I will be thinking about getting my pass soon if I hear any inkling of a raise here on MP. :)

I still think it will be wrong to raise prices twice in less than 3 months!

maui0512
10-14-2009, 09:54 AM
That's a good point about the Get in Free on your birthday. I wonder how many AP's are from that promotion and won't be renewed next year when they have to pay full price. :rolleyes:

DaDuckFan1955
10-14-2009, 10:02 AM
...............is really just a way to ensure up front revenue - and let everyone else fend for themselves with the massive crowds..

I think this statement sums it all up perfectly;)

club33az
10-14-2009, 10:54 AM
Well I will be thinking about getting my pass soon if I hear any inkling of a raise here on MP. :)

I still think it will be wrong to raise prices twice in less than 3 months!It's to reduce the number of AP's. 850k to 1 million AP's are just too damn many. They really need to get rid of the SoCal version and then go from there.

houseofmouse
10-14-2009, 02:23 PM
It's to reduce the number of AP's. 850k to 1 million AP's are just too damn many. They really need to get rid of the SoCal version and then go from there.

While I get what you are saying. Tons of theme parks have annual passes. I think the lowest So.Cal pass is useless and can be gotten rid of but I don't think that they should jack the price up so high only the uber wealthy can get in.

It is easier for us to AP's although expired right now, than to buy hopper passes and we live in CO. I think everyone has the right to an AP if they can afford it and crowds just become the norm. It just should not become so expensive regular middle class families like mine are now out of the game to get them.

I have been to Elitch's where you get on two rides all day and while it is not fun, I don't think an wealthy people only AP system is the way to go.

Just my opinion. Not meant to offend anyone.:)

club33az
10-14-2009, 02:33 PM
I hear ya. And our posts are actually kind of similar. What I'd like to see Disney do is get rid of the SoCal pass and see where that leaves them. THEN make a decision as to the over crowding/over use of the remaining AP's. I think ALOT of the AP's used now are of the SoCal variety.

Leofoenget
10-14-2009, 03:00 PM
I think there's a good chance they will.

AVP

No they won't. They raise AP prices once a year. Now they probably will raise gate prices soon, it seems they do that in January.

cstephens
10-14-2009, 03:04 PM
I think everyone has the right to an AP if they can afford it and crowds just become the norm.

I'm sorry, but I seriously disagree that *anyone* has a "right" to an AP. Yes, if a family can afford it, great, but I don't see where ANY family is entitled to be able to easily afford an AP.

Bytebear
10-14-2009, 03:21 PM
It's all about supply and demand. To reduce demand, you increase prices. Right now the supply is too great and the park is flooded with AP holders. So, raise the prices and you will reduce the crowds. But the question is, does Disney really want to do that, or will they keep crowds high despite the complaints and logistical issues.

olegc
10-14-2009, 03:32 PM
It's all about supply and demand. To reduce demand, you increase prices. Right now the supply is too great and the park is flooded with AP holders. So, raise the prices and you will reduce the crowds. But the question is, does Disney really want to do that, or will they keep crowds high despite the complaints and logistical issues.


that's been the dilemma for a while - because it appears that the resort overall is trying to appease two masters - revenue and operations costs - and it seems they are looked at independently. THe revenue side worries about up front money and getting your dollars now (that's why the monthly option surprised me - but not after I figured it was a neat trick to make folks think it was cheaper). The ops side worries about costs of running day to day, both labor and hard goods (and services), and I bet the two sides try to one up each other during meetings at TDA..

club33az
10-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Right now the supply is too great and the park is flooded with AP holders.I think you meant that demand is too great. I don't think they have a huge supply in that Disneyland can only hold so many people and they're closing DCA early.

Which is amazing to me, btw. If EVER they needed DCA's help in handling crowds, it's now and they close it early. and I'm not even talking for the Halloween party's. The fact that DCA closes at 6 pm when DL is open until 9pm, or 9 pm when Disneyland is open until midnight, is a disaster waiting to happen. Disney wanted a 2nd park to handle bigger crowds. Well, they have one now. And they have bigger crowds. They just aren't utilizing it.

Bytebear
10-14-2009, 05:04 PM
I think you meant that demand is too great. I don't think they have a huge supply in that Disneyland can only hold so many people and they're closing DCA early.

Which is amazing to me, btw. If EVER they needed DCA's help in handling crowds, it's now and they close it early. and I'm not even talking for the Halloween party's. The fact that DCA closes at 6 pm when DL is open until 9pm, or 9 pm when Disneyland is open until midnight, is a disaster waiting to happen. Disney wanted a 2nd park to handle bigger crowds. Well, they have one now. And they have bigger crowds. They just aren't utilizing it.

No, I mean the supply is too great. The cost of APs is cheap making it easy to get. Hense there are just too many cheap APs around. The demand is simply matching the supply (if APs were free, we'd all have one). Disney cannot control the demand, only the supply.