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Laffite
01-09-2003, 04:01 PM
So what happen to the Mark Twain crews now that they have no Mark Twain to go to work at? I assume that they just get transferred to another attraction. But some of them never worked on anything but the boat. Guess they'll have to get re-trainned for another attraction (ie: tram :) heh eh) until the boat will float again.

Preston

rexfarms
01-09-2003, 04:56 PM
I doubt that somebody would work Mark Twain and not any other attraction. They are normally trained for more then one right CMs? Like when an attraction goes down for rehab, they would just work at another attraction if they were in attractions.:) Confusing?:confused:

Lost Boy
01-09-2003, 07:41 PM
I happened to get into a conversation with one of the "old timers" on the Mark Twain a time or two ago and found out something very interesting.

The Mark Twain is steam operated by the person on the lower deck, not the "pilot" up in the cabin. All he does is signal the person on the lower deck, "the Steamer" who actually operates the big lever that makes the boat go and stop.

The Trains around the Park are Steam Operated.

Guess what?

It takes a very knowledgable person to operate either one of these two "Steam Operated" attractions (yes I know the are 4 trains, but I am calling the Trains an attraction). They trade off stations. Some work the Mark Twain while some work the Trains. Then they switch. So I imagine right now, there is a lot of Mark Twain people getting some time on the Trains.

Lets' give our thanks that there are still people around who know how to operate these glinchy old steam operated attractions. There are not many people left who can do this.:D

tabacco
01-09-2003, 08:07 PM
They've got a really good union, too. They make a lot more than regular CMs. As for the Attractions people who run the wheelhouse and load, unload, etc. aren't neccesarily trained on multiple attractions. My roommate was trained on the canoes only, and couldn't get the okay to cross-train even after months of trying. The Twain/Columbia people who aren't signed off on another attraction were probably cross-trained awhile ago when the date was set for the draining.

rexfarms
01-09-2003, 08:33 PM
Why couldnt your friend cross train?

tabacco
01-09-2003, 08:41 PM
His managers and scheduler insisted that because he was CT he couldn't cross-train, despite having been there for over a year.

GoofyDad
01-09-2003, 08:55 PM
I saw the CMs at BTMRR passing around a flyer advertising training for Pooh.

Perhaps we may see highly-trained steam engine engineers loading kiddies into honey-pots?

DisneyGuy03
01-09-2003, 09:23 PM
His managers and scheduler insisted that because he was CT he couldn't cross-train, despite having been there for over a year
Ok, not to sound dumb here, but I am not up on all of the abreviations, what does CT stand for?

HBTiggerFan
01-09-2003, 10:19 PM
CT = Casual Temporary (I think)

My friend who works on the canoes told me they were trying to get him cross-trained on Indy but he didn't want to be for some reason. I think he was holding out for Pirates or something else.

tabacco
01-09-2003, 10:19 PM
Casual Temporary. We're hired to work seasonal periods only, and usually get gypped on benefits.

driftwood714
01-09-2003, 11:00 PM
and pay!

tabacco
01-09-2003, 11:20 PM
yep!

Laffite
01-09-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by rexfarms
I doubt that somebody would work Mark Twain and not any other attraction. They are normally trained for more then one right CMs? Like when an attraction goes down for rehab, they would just work at another attraction if they were in attractions.:) Confusing?:confused:

The girl I've met said she worked on the Mark Twain ever since she was hired. They just put "her there" since day one.

Laffite
01-09-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Lost Boy
So I imagine right now, there is a lot of Mark Twain people getting some time on the Trains.


Who? The engineers or the crews? The engineers will just go back working on he train. The crews will probably get transferred to go to another attraction (but most likely not the trains, not even as conductors. Being a conductor has a steep learning curve)


Originally posted by GoofyDad
I saw the CMs at BTMRR passing around a flyer advertising training for Pooh.

Perhaps we may see highly-trained steam engine engineers loading kiddies into honey-pots?

Nop. The engineers will go back and work on the trains exclusively until the Twain is back up.

Polar33
01-09-2003, 11:34 PM
And CTs tend to get scheduled worse than dirt. A few CTs in ODV this past few weeks got no sleep at all due to their 12 hour shifts with double back for two weeks strait. CTs gain no seniority, so theoretically a CT who has worked at Disneyland for 10 years gets worse shifts than anyone who has just hired in as a CR (casual-regular). Although, all the CTs I know have very good reasons not to up their classification despite the downsides...but they have my respect for sticking through it.

Oh, and typically Attractions CMs that are only trained in one location (and who are not CT) are still able to pick up guest control shifts for the duration of the rehab.

hefferdude
01-10-2003, 07:15 AM
They've got a really good union, too. They make a lot more than regular CMs.

I read somewhere ( Van Arsdale France's "Windows Over Main Street" book...) that Mark Twain operators had to be members of an inland river pilots assoc. or union or some such since it was a passenger water craft - over a certain tonnage, length and beam. Even if it is in a theme park and travels in a circle. True?

PS - anybody for having the MT go counter clockwise?:)

smd4
01-10-2003, 08:20 AM
Notes on the Mark Twain/Steam Train engineers overalap:

When you become a train engineer, you begin going up the ranks in job seniority. If you have the knowledge, skills and inclination, you can become one of the men who work on and repair the steam trains. Usually, one or two trains is always undergoing some kind of repair or cleaning during the day, when the trains go out. That's what these guys usually do. They wear uniforms known as "blues;" dark blue slacks and medium blue work shirts. These are different from their "stripes"--the traditional hickory-striped engineer costumes.

The train engineers out on the line need lunch and other breaks, which these roundhouse mechanics provide.

These are also the operating engineers who generally operate the engines on the Mark Twain. They are eminiently knowledgeable in steam power, and, while the Mark Twain is excedingly easy to operate (most of the boiler being automatically operated) they still can handle just about any problems that might arise with the boiler/engine operation.

The operators of the Steam Trains and Mark Twain do belong to a union--Operating Engineers Local 501, Los Angeles. They do not belong to any inland waterways union. They do get paid significantly more than other cast members, obviously, because they are required to have a great deal of job skills and knowledge. Some of the more knowledeable OE's I know, who have worked there nearly 10 years, earn over $50,000, and have full benefits. However, the reason most of these guys seem a little older, is because ofte they are retired. And when they started out, $8/hr was OK supplemental retirement income. Not too many young families can be raised on $8/hr.

They do earn their money. Operating the boilers of the MT and the trains safely in order to prevent boiler explosions that might kill and maim hundreds, is clearly a little different than asking guests if they want extra salt on their popcorn.

rexfarms
01-10-2003, 01:11 PM
Wow Steve you really know a lot about that that. So if I were to work at the DLR I probably wouldnt get to work either of these attractions? How close is the Mark Twain to the Columbia in operating procedure?

smd4
01-10-2003, 01:34 PM
Disney doesn't really allow anyone to "request" any specific jobs. With the steam trains, it's very political. It really pays to know someone who works on the trains (not conductors--they are considered regular CM's), but if you have an interest in steam engines and want to run them, it helps to know the folks who work there, and go in "through the back door."

You might get there by chance, but if this is what you're looking for, you might want to apply in the spring, when they're gearing up for the busy summer months. Assuming you get a position on the steam trains, you would probably be laid off after Labor Day, but you'd have seniority when they hired again for the Winter of the next summer. And, of course, you wopuld be required to join the union.

The Columbia and the Mark Twain operate on completely different principles. The Mark Twain uses a fully-fnctioning marine steam boiler to produce steam to operate the two long-stroke steam engines near the stearn. You can look at this boiler, and see some interesting things, like the fire peephole, and the pump on the floor that moves back and forth to "inject" water into it. The fuel tanks are located in the deck, and if you look hard enough, you can find their fill holes.

If you go half way up the "companionway" (stairs) on the port side at the stern, you can see the steam gauges that tell the OE what pressure he's dealing with. The large handwheel on the cieling is the throttle, and the big lever the engineer pushes or pulls (the Johnson Bar) directs the "valve gear" to admit steam on one side of the cylinders or the other, thereby making the boat go forward or reverse.

The boiler runs by iteslf, meaning water is replaced into it automatically, and the fire shuts itself down when there's too much steam. It also "blows down" automatically into the ROA, meaning the boiler is opened up and pressurized water is expelled, carrying with it impurities from the boiler water. That's why you can sometimes see steam emanating from the waterline near the stern.

The boiler used to be conected to a WWII submarine steam generator, and that's what would produce the electricity for the lights, spiel, etc. Now, they use a gas operated generator in the room at the very stern. The rumbling roar heard near here gives may people the impression that the boat uses a gas engine, and not actual steam power.

I don't know as many specifics about the Columbia, since my primary interest is steam power, but that boat uses a standard diesel marine engine turning a screw propeller. Just like any power boat, it's merely a matter of putting a throttle in forward and reverse, and setting your speed.

rexfarms
01-10-2003, 01:48 PM
I see. So they Trains and Mark Twain are totally steam. Do you work on the Twain? I go up and often talk with the "pilot" but they dont seem as knowlegelable as you. What does OE stand for? And can you ride up with the engineer on the trains? Whats the best way to talk to them?:)

smd4
01-10-2003, 02:56 PM
No, I don't work at the park, and never have. Several of my good friends are OE's (Operating Engineers). I have a lot of knowledge about steam power from a large library of steam textbooks I've collected over the years.

In 1995, when I was about 29 years old, I had seen folks riding in the engine cabs of the trains. I finally got up the nerve to ask a conductor to ask the engineer if I could have a cab ride. He said yes (one of the happiest days of my life!). That engineer could see that I wasn't just a guest who wanted a ride in the cab because it was cool. He knew I knew what I was talking about, and we became good friends. Anotehr OE and I also became friends after I got my AP, and he and I would go down and run an actual steam locomotive belonging to a mutual friend.

When I had my AP, I would always plan to be on the Main Street station platform around the time they gave lunches (around 7-7:30 pm) for the night crew. They were always kind enough to invite me into the cabs for multiple trips around the park.

I would also see them running "the boat" as they call it--the MT. So I'd spend countless hours riding around the river with them, asking them to explain everything to me.

Unfortunately, there is a huge liability issue with steam train rides--for the time being. The problem is that the seats that guests could ride on were located on the front of the "coal car," or tender, with your feet resting on a plate connected to the engine. The floor literally would move around beneath your feet, making it a challenge to keep balance. Also, the backhead of the boiler is absolutely scalding hot--not something you want guests to be too close to.

There used to be great observation platforms in Frontierland and Tomorrowland that allowed one to get withing a couple feet of the engine. From here, it was very easy to introduce oneself and chat with the crews. Now, since Disney decided that the trains were better kept in the background, the platforms have been removed in favor of such important things as shrubbery and FastPass areas.

If you have an AP, try hanging out in Main Street Station for a few hours one night. The Steam Train CM's often hang out there, especially if it's raining, and it can be a very congenial environment to meet the engineers.

rexfarms
01-10-2003, 04:26 PM
Oh cool thanks for the info Steve.:)

Laffite
01-10-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by smd4

There used to be great observation platforms in Frontierland and Tomorrowland that allowed one to get withing a couple feet of the engine. From here, it was very easy to introduce oneself and chat with the crews. Now, since Disney decided that the trains were better kept in the background, the platforms have been removed in favor of such important things as shrubbery and FastPass areas.


And the HM fastpass distribution area isn't bad either. I found that the track is raised up high enough so you can see things pretty well.

I happened to be there when Fred Gurley stopped at the New Orleans station and I got a picture of the bottom of the firebox, showing the fire. And the engineers released the blowdown valve, making (more than) quite a bit of noise :)
http://home.earthlink.net/~captbulldog/fb.JPG

smd4, do you think that little "flap" is missing from our drawing?

smd4
01-10-2003, 08:55 PM
Well, Laffite, I think that little flap is just a piece of sheet metal hanging below. I'm not sure why it's there. But a great picture, though. Should placate all the guests who ask the cast members, "Those locomotives aren't really steam operated, are they?"

gn2dlnd
01-11-2003, 01:03 AM
Mark Twain, cross-train, steam train. This is just too-too. :p