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View Full Version : Unlimited FastPass (and the debate rages on...)



Sailor Butterfly
12-21-2002, 05:05 AM
For those of you who haven't read about this yet, here's a link to Kevin Yee's article at MiceAge.

http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky122002a.htm

Personally, I don't think this is as big of a deal as he makes it out to be. Up until just recently, hotel guests had Early Entry as their added perk for staying on-site. This is obviously Disney's attempt at finding a cheap replacement for that. And Mr. Yee's assertions to the contrary, I don't think that, on a percentage basis, the number of people who stay on-site is huge in relation to the total number of guests at the park, so this shouldn't significantly increase the number of FastPass "sell-outs." What does everyone else think?

By the way, since we've hashed and rehashed the pros and cons of FastPass as a whole, I'd appreciate it if everyone else could limit their comments to just this new "twist" in the system. Thanks.

EandCDad
12-21-2002, 05:40 AM
It's a good article and Kevin is one of the true good writers writing about Disneyland (that doesn't mean I always agree with him, it means that I think he writes well, a rarity at Disney fan sites). However, Kevin is anti-Fastpass so Kevin is going to write negative things about the Fastpass system unless it just goes away.

I'm not worried, as an AP, about this unlimited FP. I don't go on really crowded days (days with the highest level of out of town visitors). If I don't get to ride a ride this time, I'll ride it next time. That's the joy of being an AP.

I haven't seen alot of the anger supposedly being shown by AP's with this change that Kevin mentions in his article. Maybe he is talking about personal experience talking to people or in emails. I can't see most of the AP's I know caring that much. They all go to the park about 300 days a year, I think they can skip Indy a few times.

mousey_girl
12-21-2002, 06:44 AM
I would rather have early entry. When we go on our annual trip we always get 1 "free" fastpass and then spend 4 days waiting to use it. With this new system, yes it will be more convienent but, I don't see it as much of an incentive to stay on property.

Darkbeer
12-21-2002, 11:14 AM
I have been one that has been discussing this for a couple of weeks now, I started some conversation, more with the intent of how the new system works, than any type of anger. I think that we won't see any type of anger until the new system is implemented, and people see the actual impact.

As for the impact, there are just under 3,000 hotel rooms in the three Disney owned hotel rooms, plus all the Good Neighbor packages sold at the neighbor hotels. Plus if all Walt Disney Travel tickets get this option, that will include all the tickets sold at AAA, Disney Stores, and the 5 day for the price of 3 ParkHopper sold online at Disney.com.

So, we know that thousands, and maybe tens of thousands will have the "Unlimited" feature (Heck, if you take just the DIsney rooms, and an average family of 4, you have about 12,000 folks.), so until the system is put in place, we won't start to see the impact. Also, the are starting this during the slow season, so we might not see the true impact until Easter break......

Berry Princess
12-21-2002, 12:44 PM
There is a thing in the Disneyland update here on Mouseplanet. It says


Unlimited Fastpasses for AAA travel customers – Travelers who book a Disneyland package through AAA in 2003 receive an "unlimited" Fastpass.

So it may not have that much of an impact on Apers or others that don't book this way. I for one am an Aper and could care less. I know I can come back whenever and ride whatever so no biggie if I miss something. It is a good way to try to bring in more people though to stay at the hotels. Of course I'm surprised they haven't given you a choice to buy something like this for the day. I know I won't be shocked if they ever do.
Anyway, as for the "angry Apers". I haven't seen one yet. If there are ones mad about it then they can go book package like they rest have to to get it.

davebert4
12-21-2002, 08:11 PM
quote from Kevin Yee " The only caveat is that you cannot get ANOTHER FastPass for a given ride until the first FastPass reaches the "Start Time."

Am I missing something? How is this different from fast pass for everyone else? Once any fastpass reaches the start time you can go to another ride and get antoher fastpass. I was there today and held a pass for BTM (even though it shut down during my time slot and for the rest of the night), Star Tours, Space Mtn, Indy, and HMH. :confused:

MickeyD
12-21-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by davebert4
quote from Kevin Yee " The only caveat is that you cannot get ANOTHER FastPass for a given ride until the first FastPass reaches the "Start Time."


The "for a given ride" is the caveat, as I understand it. So with unlimited fastpass, you can hold multiple fastpasses for multiple attractions at the same time, you just can't hold mulitiple fastpasses for the same attraction at the same time. So you could hold an Indy fastpass and a Space Mountain fastpass, and a Splash Mountain fastpass, but one person couldn't hold three Space Mountain fastpasses at the same time.

disneyscott
12-22-2002, 07:00 AM
How many people realy know how to use fastpass???? Most of the AP's do but for a guest comeing out here on an AAA vacation I dont think we have much to worry about. Now if they extend this to AP's it would kill the fastpass as we know it. 11 am would role around and ALL fasspasses would be sold out.

Hydroman
12-22-2002, 07:20 AM
It seems to me that those (and I am NOT passing judgement here) who favor Fastpass appreciate it because they can ride more rides (the E-tickets anyway) within a given time frame; those that disapprove of it prefer the Immersive Experience. I think this new system will result in the Fastpasses selling out sooner, so that everyone will get a chance to experience a great qeue. Although I do appreciate Fastpass myself, I do miss the IJ qeue. I even have to explain to my kids (who have never ridden IJ w/out FP) what is going on with the ride, what's up with Mara, etc.

If Unlimited FP were made available to APers and other non-DLR hotel/AAA guests, how much would you be willing to pay for it?
$10? $20? (Monty Burns voice) EXCELLENT!!!!
:~)

stinkerbell
12-22-2002, 02:04 PM
When we go to Disneyland for 4-5 days, we do a combination of "plans." Usually the first day and a half, we want to hit as many E-tickets as we can and we use those fastpasses in every combination imaginable, with our parent switchpasses, etc.

On other days, we get a fastpass here and there, slow it down and reride rides, go on rides we don't often get to--Storybookland Canal, etc.--see some shows, parades, etc.

Our last day, we use those fastpasses again like crazy, because we want to go on HM or Indy three more times before we leave.

I think it would suck for us to have those fastpasses sell out. We don't just cram a bunch of rides in before 11 am, although we try. The kids will see Mickey or whoever, and the best-laid plans are worthless. It's nice to have the best of both worlds. Know that we can stop and see Mickey on Main St., and also ride Indy twice before 11 am, with a jaunt on Pirates and have a fastpass for Splash in hand.

I'm a tourist and an AP. I know how to use fastpass. I would give anything to have that early entry back. Those were truly special times. Magic. And I never stayed on property OR used the Walt Disney Travel Co. We always got the early entry as part of our package, through Alaska Air, our travel agent, whatever method we used.

This is just another way to make us "pay" for fastpass privileges. It sucks. But I would never get angry about it. :)

ldsguy
12-22-2002, 04:27 PM
Ok, well, as I have posted before and these numbers have been confirmed time and time again, and we'll even take the numbers that favor the tourists (busy tourist days):
CMs visiting the park: 40%
APs at the park: 40%
This leaves 20% that could possibly be under this new system, so yes some fastpasses might sell out 20% faster than before, so maybe instead of being sold out at 8 pm, thier sold out at 6 or 7 pm, still gives plenty of time to get there and yes, this onl;y happens on the really busy days anyway.

But let's disect this further, how many attractions have fastpasses, but don't really need them?

DCA:
It's Tough to Be a Bug
Muppet Vission 3-D
Who Wants to be a Millionare, Play It!

DL:
Pirates of the Caribean
The Hunted Mansion (Non-Holiday version)

We that frequent these boards know that they are not needed, but many that will have the "unlimited Fastpass" will not know it, as well as the fact that they will not know, as a general rule, that the Fastpasses can be used even after they expire, so they will figure, well, what's the point of having three fastpasses, if we can't make it to that ride before they expire?

So, given everything there is, after thinking about this, at first I was completely opposed to it, I don't think the impact is going to be enough to worry about and it can be a good thing, in that it allows the park to open earlier for everyone and still gives them some sort of benefit.

Hydroman
12-23-2002, 07:31 AM
I think there may be a perception that FP is not yet being fully utilized. I was wondering about this a couple of months ago when I was there with my family and the standby wait for BTMRR was much longer than the fastpass wait time (60 min. vs. 30 min.) Either there was something wrong with the posted wait time, or the FP system wasn't working right. Or perhaps everyone (everyone that knows how to use FP anyway) at the park that day already had a FP in hand and were unable to get one for BTMRR so that there was an ample supply of BTMRR FPs at that time.

It makes me want to compare FP with carpool lanes, and how Caltrans tries to maximize their use by allowing clean-fuel vehicles, motorcycles, and off-peak single drivers. Disney would probably be happiest if they could shut down all of the FP machines before lunchtime, and "Unlimited FP" may help do that....

ldsguy
12-25-2002, 08:34 PM
FP line is never supposed to be more than a 15 minute wait, if it gets to 30, they eseentially shut down Stand-By, not letting them on, until FP is down to 15 minutes......Or at least that's what a lead told a person on California Screamin' when I was in the FP line and the wait was way too long, after I went in it.

Kuzcotopia
12-25-2002, 10:58 PM
Well, there can always be shoddy operation of the fastpass system by the employees, but that aside... I really don't see the big deal, or the anger over this system (except from Kevin Yee).

I am pretty sure that I am the person he talks about in his article as arguing with him (true) and ridiculing him (really false) on the mouseplanet boards about the operation of fastpass.

Search on my name and fastpass to find the thread where we discuss the reasons why Fastpass makes lines shorter for even those who ride standby all day, because they load-balance all the rides in the park (not completely balanced, but enough better to be worth the cost).

Kevin complains in that article"two classes of guest", those with regular fastpasses, and those with unlimited ones. He gloats a bit with an "I told you so, all you complaining APers".

Huh?

Who's complaining?

I think it's a cool way to get people to stay on-property. I don't see anything wrong with it. It still allows the computer to load-shift those guests to times when there are fewer patrons traditionally, so it still saves everyone time. Yes, certain people have it a little easier, and can line up their fastpasses. It cuts down on their walking, but it still keeps ride capacity at peak levels longer in the day, which is good for everyone.

"Two classes of guest?" That's not new. APers and one dayers. Multi-dayers with early entry. Company private party guests, the night of a mix-in. Magic Kingdom club patrons. Club 33 guests. All day guest and after 6-pm guests. Unlimited-use tickets and ticket book users, for those old enough to remember THAT!

People who know the park will get more out of it than people who don't. APers will know tricks that others don't. But before fastpass, my knowledge made almost everything a near walk-on, because I moved opposite the crowds (Space mountain during the parade, etc.). After fastpass, not so much, because the loads are balanced. Worse for me, better for most.

I am for fastpass, because I know it lets more people ride more rides per day. If this was the zero-sum gain, as Kevin Lee writes it as, wouldn't there be thousands of guests complaining that they didn't get to ride anything because the waits were too long?

Ride Max Mark shows that the lines are shorter, even standby, even on the busiest days. That efficiency comes from Fastpass.