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SweenyTodd
11-18-2002, 09:00 AM
I love fireworks.

And I really, really, really love "Believe... There's Magic in the Stars." I tell my non-Disney Obsessed friends that if they go to Disneyland, missing this show is like missing Pirates or the Haunted mansion.

But, boy, do I dislike "Believe... in Holiday Magic."

It's not that there aren't some cool firework effects. Because there are. As a matter of fact, the opening ten-seconds of this show are probably the best 10-seconds of fireworks I've ever seen. But then, I dunno, the whole thing just falls apart.

The regular show has drama, a sense of narrative, and for lack of a better word a "story." It goes through these wonderful phases - a "fantasy sequence," a "fun sequence," a "adventure/villain sequence" and so on. It all builds and builds. There's a wonderful false ending (at the end of "When You Wish Upon a Star) that leads into Tinkerbell's flight, then a huge closing sequence (including it's very own hidden Mickey), and I always get get goosebumps when that solitary "comet" makes it's way across the sky. Finally, there's that moment of "remember... just believe" and the sky goes ablaze in white. Amazing.

Conversely, the holiday version seems slapped together, disjointed and at times downright slow. There's nothing leading your through. There's no narrative except for the bookended song and the woman's narration (both of which I do enjoy, but not enough to save the whole show). And the selection of music is uneven and doesn't really seem to be very well thought-out.

Yes, yes, yes, the snow effect is neat at the end, although I think the transition into it is slow. And could they have picked a more boring version of "White Christmas?"

This is all just my opinion, of course. But my wife and I make an effort to see the regular "Believe" show at least once a week when it's running. This show doesn't inspire me to take the 30 mile drive to Anaheim.

.... remember... just believe.
JM

Master K
11-18-2002, 09:14 AM
I was going to post today about how much we LOVED the Holiday fireworks!!!

I guess people see these things differently. I thought the Nutcracker sequence was perfection and I appreciated the effort to put in a Chanauka song too even if it seemed just stuck in there.

We took a big group for my daughters 6th birthday. It was a very busy day and it was tough to get much done. The fireworks made everyone happy about having stayed that late.

odnamraortsac
11-18-2002, 09:16 AM
I agree. After all the hype about the holiday fireworks show I was excited to see it. When I finally did this past Saturtday I was left with an empty feeling. I enjoy the Summer fireworks but this one, I don't know why I was let down. O.K., maybe I'll blame it on the wind conditions which had a tendency to "smear" the fireworks as soon as they were launched. So I'll give it another chance. But the "snowfall" on Main Steet was a real yawner. None of the snowflakes seemed to reach the guests below. Again maybe due to wind conditions. The "snowfall" effect is seen to better effect during the Fantasyland show "Minnie's Christmas Party".

Ghoulish Delight
11-18-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Master K
and I appreciated the effort to put in a Chanauka song too even if it seemed just stuck in there. :rolleyes: Ugh, please no. As a Jew, I'd much rather it NOT be in there. I don't need to be tossed a bone. I don't need to be patted on the head and patronized. I'd much rather Hannukah be left out of the picture entirely. I hate the "Christmasification" of Hannukah. I hate blue and white Hannukah light strings. I hate dreidel shaped frosted cookies (okay, hate is too strong a word for any cookie ;) ). I, of course, can't speak for all Jews, but myself and the Jews I know can do without it all.

tabacco
11-18-2002, 10:28 AM
GD: ever heard "Christmas Wrapping" by Save Ferris? :)

http://www.theonlywaytobe.com/lyrics/xmaswrap.htm

One of the band currently works for DLR as a Jungle skipper, I believe.

Lani
11-18-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
I hate the "Christmasification" of Hannukah. I'm just waiting for a program that exploits Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Japanese New Year's, American New Year's, Chinese New Year's... and Winter Solstice for atheists. Have I covered everything?

DJ_MENTOS
11-18-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by tabacco

One of the band currently works for DLR as a Jungle skipper, I believe.

He actually works as a lead in Fantasyland. Unless someone else left the band.

-DJ_MENTOS

Ghoulish Delight
11-18-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by tabacco
GD: ever heard "Christmas Wrapping" by Save Ferris? :)

http://www.theonlywaytobe.com/lyrics/xmaswrap.htm

One of the band currently works for DLR as a Jungle skipper, I believe. Yes, and that's actually a cover of an 80s song by the same name by The Waitresses. Great song.

disneyscott
11-18-2002, 12:33 PM
To me a firework displays means to me, shorter lines in the park....I have never really cared about fireworks. Then I was in the right place at the right time and saw "Believe". The sound the color was just great, and everytime i had to get to the castle to see the show.

I too last night 11-17 saw the show and feel it wasn't what I fell in love with before. It least i can go back to the short lines again.

innerSpaceman
11-18-2002, 03:12 PM
I completely disagree with the O.P. in that I think the Holiday version of Believe is superior in every way to the Summer version of Believe.

Let's start at the end, shall we? The finale is fantastic! (I'm referring to the fireworks, not the snow). Bunches of shells lobbed into the air to explode in a myriad of colors is SO much more exciting that the same amount of shells all destined to explode in white. The white explosion of summertime is very pretty, but it is not nearly as dramatic and satisfying as the wonderful world of color finale of Holiday Believe that harkens back to the astounding finales of Fantasy in the Sky (whose like I had feared we would never see again).

As for the body of the show, there may be too many slow parts that are inappropriate for a pyro display - - but there are far fewer of these slow sections in Holiday Believe than in Summer Believe. Fireworks work best, in my opinion, with lively music. Both versions of Believe use slow music as their mainstay rather than as punctuation to let the smoke clear, so to speak. The slow sections produce an "aaw, isn't that pretty" reaction from the audience, whereas the more dramatic music and pyro combinations produce the customary "oooh, ahhh" that fireworks are meant to elicit from the viewer. In this department, the excellent Nutcracker Suite Russian Dance segment of Holiday Believe knocks the socks off of anything in Summer Believe.

Let me add that the Pyro Fan effect used twice in the Holiday show is an amazing new wrinkle that we may yet find added to next summer's Believe.

Finally, let me say that I despise the simpering narration and so-called storyline of the regular Believe. It's sickeningly saccharine, makes me cringe with embarrassment, and ensures that the fireworks show starts and ends with a whimper instead of a bang. Pyrotechnics are dramatic and, IMHO, they work best with a forceful opening and a whiz-bang finale. Give me Fantasy in the Sky any day.

cstephens
11-18-2002, 04:28 PM
Innerspaceman wrote:
Let me add that the Pyro Fan effect used twice in the Holiday show is an amazing new wrinkle that we may yet find added to next summer's Believe.

Is this the same effect that's been used in the special Fourth of July Believe show prior to this year? Or the effect that was periodically sprinkled into Believe following September 11, 2001?


With the caveat that I haven't seen this year's Holiday show yet, I've preferred the regular Believe show to the Holiday version since they started running both of them. My preference has a lot to do with the music. The music for the holiday show doesn't touch me as much as the music for the regular show does, and somehow, for me, the fireworks "fit" with the music better in the regular show than in the holiday show. If I'm in the park during Believe, I always try to watch the fireworks or at least listen to the soundtrack. I'm usually interested in watching Holiday Believe once, but otherwise, I'm wandering the park or doing other things there if I happen to be there when Holiday Believe is on.

I do like watching the little kids when the snow effect happens in Holiday Believe though. But then, I also like listening to the roar that goes up once or twice from the audience during Believe.

HBTiggerFan
11-18-2002, 06:02 PM
The fireworks are awesome! However they either need a longer Hanukkah section or take it out completely. There is more than one Hanukkah song they can use, unfortunately I don't remember any others than I have a little dradiel (and I can't find the correct spelling). :(

And I finally got snowed on. Every year I stand in the wrong spots. This year my goal was to be snowed on, and it happened. :D

Sophie832
11-18-2002, 06:08 PM
Ghoulish, I completely agree with you. Every time I've heard the "Hannukah" part of the fireworks, it just seems like they're patronizing me. The blue and white decorations they sell are too funny! It strikes me as a goy's idea of what goes on during Hannukah. I don't know about most Jews, but there's no such thing as Hannukah decorations in my family.

We saw the fireworks for the first time this past weekend. The fireworks themselves are spectacular, and a big improvement on last year. However, as far as the total package, the show is inferior to the usual Believe, in my opinion. I think they're gonna add better fireworks to the regular show when it comes back, and then there will be nothing to make the Holiday Believe better. The only musical sequence I really love is the Nutcracker. That grandma's voice is just comical to me (yes, more comical than the little boy who never grows up), and there are serious lulls in the show where I'm brought completely out of the magic. The snow at the end is nice, but it doesn't mean I can ignore the deficiencies in the rest of the show. Bottom line: great fireworks, but the show needs work.

Not Afraid
11-18-2002, 07:30 PM
I think I disagree with everyone. I LOVE it all!

I'm such a fireworks freak I get excited during 4th-of-July-throw-'em-up-in-the-air shows. Disneyland shows have ALWAYS been spectacular, and have been head and shoulders above other shows for as long as I can remember (1965, ouch). We've gone a while without any "Believe" and I am grateful to have it back. I honestly couldn't tell you which show I like better. They both give me chills and tears. I can't even BEGIN to dis a DL FW show. Just think what we COULD be seeing.

Disclaimer: Both Swans and Fireworks are perfect and should not be criticized - ever.;) :D :p

zapppop
11-18-2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Let me add that the Pyro Fan effect used twice in the Holiday show is an amazing new wrinkle that we may yet find added to next summer's Believe.
Oh hell no !
They tried that last year during february and march. They changed the single shooting star at the end to that fan effect and it totally changed the vibe and didn't look or feel right. They found a spot for it in the christmas fireworks show; let's leave it at that.

tabacco
11-18-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by DJ_MENTOS
He actually works as a lead in Fantasyland. Unless someone else left the band.

Eh... weird. I heard Jungle. Ah well, whatever.

Morrigoon
11-18-2002, 08:49 PM
Okay, for starters, the new effect..... STUNNING. I saw one effect that I thought was the new one and I went, oh, that's nice that they put that i-WHOA! (as the actual new effect happened)

I really wish they'd pull out the "all I want for xmas is my two front teeth" bit. I hate that song. I have always hated that song. And it slows down the show :mad:

The version of White Christmas is a two-sided coin. When the fireworks have just ended and people are discovering the "magic" snowfall, it's just what the Dr. ordered. However, seeing as how the song's several minutes long, it's slowness gets annoying. I'd like to see them do something different each year. How about getting Granny to do a voiceover for the post-finale as the lights are just starting to come up, encouraging us to sing along, then play a standard version of some really well known Christmas song? Or even change it for the sake of having a tradition of changing the final song? White Christmas would work, as would many other classics: Silver Bells, Silent Night, the Christmas Song (chestnuts roasting...), Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas, It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas, It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year (for a more upbeat finale). Of these, White Christmas is probably still the best choice, but either make it a singalong, or at least pick a more upbeat version. Frankly, for the length of the finale, you could probably get away with a small medley. If they could use their grad nite lasers to project the lyrics onto the Matterhorn (where they usually put school names), that would be REALLY cool for the singalong - that or across the front of the castle. And get the GC CMs to start singing to encourage others to join in.

Ghoulish Delight
11-18-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
The fireworks are awesome! However they either need a longer Hanukkah section or take it out completely. There is more than one Hanukkah song they can use, unfortunately I don't remember any others than I have a little dradiel (and I can't find the correct spelling). :(
Dreidel. Well, actually, it's a Yiddish word and requires Hebrew characters to spell correctly anyway so whatever works (that's why there are about 8 different spellings of Hannukah/Channuka/Hanukkah/Channnnuuukkahhhh). As for the sequence, I'll say it again (and again and again and again until someone listens). I don't want it in there, I don't want it longer, I don't want it at all. That kind of display and celebration has nothing to do with Hannukah. Hannukah does not belong in it at all. Like I said, I feel like I'm being patronized, being tossed a bone. Don't want it, don't need it.

Sophie, our Hannukah decorations growing up were a few drawings of hannukiot and dreidels my sister and I drew in pre-school, and this weird accordianing 3d Judah Macabee thing (don't ask). No lights, no stocking, no ornaments.

Morrigoon
11-18-2002, 09:29 PM
Well now that there's a thread linking the fireworks show video, folks can judge for themselves, but that final bit is just absolutely stunning. (Looks even better in person!)

HBTiggerFan
11-18-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight Dreidel. Well, actually, it's a Yiddish word and requires Hebrew characters to spell correctly anyway so whatever works (that's why there are about 8 different spellings of Hannukah/Channuka/Hanukkah/Channnnuuukkahhhh).

Thanks GD :) I have mastered several ways of spelling Hanukkah, however I have never seen it spelled "Channnnuuukkahhhh" ;)



As for the sequence, I'll say it again (and again and again and again until someone listens). I don't want it in there, I don't want it longer, I don't want it at all. That kind of display and celebration has nothing to do with Hannukah. Hannukah does not belong in it at all. Like I said, I feel like I'm being patronized, being tossed a bone. Don't want it, don't need it.

I want it longer because then it doesn't appear (to me) that they are tossing a bone or patronizing me. The entire show is full of Christmas songs, except for a tiny portion of one song. That in itself is patronizing. Expanding that portion or mixing in more Hanukkah songs throughout the show would not appear patronizing to me.


Sophie, our Hannukah decorations growing up were a few drawings of hannukiot and dreidels my sister and I drew in pre-school, and this weird accordianing 3d Judah Macabee thing (don't ask). No lights, no stocking, no ornaments.

Quite possibly my feelings on the fireworks come from my feelings developed while growing up. We had Hanukkah decorations, such as Menorahs that clinged to the window, each night I would add a "flame" to the "candles". We also had hanging decorations. However growing up I always wanted the blue and white lights, and the tree to decorate because I was never given a reason why it was only a "Christmas thing" while my other Jewish friends had blue/white lights and a tree to decorate. Just given a "because I said so" reply.

Sophie832
11-19-2002, 09:31 PM
Hannukah is not the "Jewish Christmas"...that's what I was trying to say.

Crazytigger
11-19-2002, 10:12 PM
I just have to say that I really enjoyed them. We saw them this Saturday. I think there is good theme to them. I mean it is Christmas after all. How many themes can there really be? They do 3 or 4 popular songs and I think the timming of the fireworks with the music is great. Well thats just my opinion for what it is worth.

Mukta
11-20-2002, 08:19 AM
I watched the fireworks yesterday. I didn't notice the new effect that you spoke of, Morrigoon. Wind was a problem with the snow, but kids were thrilled anyway. I liked the show overall, but I was mostly watching for the effect. When is it?

HBTiggerFan
11-20-2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Sophie832
Hannukah is not the "Jewish Christmas"...that's what I was trying to say.

I know what you were trying to say. Unfortunately thats how I was raised. And now that I am an adult and have no strong religious convictions this time of year is all about "holiday time" and "family time" for me.

Crazytigger,
The theme is "Believe in Holiday Magic", not Believe in Christmas Magic. There are lots of holidays in December. Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, I think Ramadan falls in December also. If they are going to call it Believe in HOLIDAY Magic they should put songs in from every holiday, not just Christmas with a token Hanukkah song. Or else they should rename them to Believe in Christmas Magic.

Sophie832
11-20-2002, 09:25 PM
Yeah, I guess it really does depend a lot on how you're raised.

This Hallmark-created "Holiday" season just bugs me, I guess. I'm a bit grinchy when it comes to forced "togetherness". LOL Plus, lumping all the different "holidays" together pretty much ensures the religious side to each is lost, and the traditions along with it. Soon, people will think Hannukah garlands like the ones they sell are part of the tradition.

I wonder how they could incorporate Kwanzaa and Ramadan, though. I'm not sure what songs there are for each, and I'm pretty sure Ramadan is a serious, very religious time, not a "holiday" (although Hannukah is not as serious as Yom Kippur, I don't think of it as a "holiday" per-se).