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stan4d_steph
09-25-2008, 12:50 PM
A lawsuit was filed by a Santa Ana family on Tuesday alleging that a dog bit their then two-year-old daughter at the Big Thunder Ranch petting zoo.

Here's an article from the LA Daily News, including a link to a pdf scan of the actual complaint (http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_10550959).

Reading the article and the complaint, some questions come to mind.

Has anyone ever seen a dog at Big Thunder Ranch? At the time of the alleged attack, it was in the midst of the Woody's Halloween Roundup overlay. Scanning through archives of photos, I don't see any pictures of a dog, just goats, cows, donkeys and sheep.

An October 1, 2006 trip report from poster cstephens' webpage (http://www.colddeadfish.net/dlr/dlr100106tr.html) has no mention of a dog or photos of a dog just 2 days before the alleged attack when the dog was supposedly on display as noted in item II.9 of the complaint. In fact, the Roundup was not even open for the first week of the time period they indicate the dog was on display (Sept. 22 - Oct. 3, 2006); the first day it was open was September 29.

The complaint also states that the dog was walked in parades where fireworks were going off. The only dog I know that has ever been in a parade at Disneyland was the beagle who had a spot shaped like Mickey's head. This parade took place in broad daylight. Also, there is no parade that has fireworks going on at the same time.

All of these details add up to make this story very suspect to me. No doubt the child was injured, as there are hospital records to prove that. However, the complaint raises more questions than it answers.

When was there ever a dog in the petting zoo? Did anyone see one there between September 22 and October 3, 2006?

Why wasn't there some mention of this incident back in October 2006? I would have thought that a dog biting a 2-year-old inside Disneyland would have received some media coverage.

Drince88
09-25-2008, 01:47 PM
I like that the lawyer said "...the public needed to be warned" Yea. Like that's effective. Two years later.

Hmmm, I wonder what the statute of limitations civil equivalent is on this type of suit. I'm guessing probably 2 years!

Rufus T Firefly
09-25-2008, 01:48 PM
I don't remember ever seeing a dog there. :confused:

dawnid
09-25-2008, 02:47 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I don't ever remember a dog at Big Thunder. I wonder if the parents mistakenly thought that Disney doesn't go to court to fight lawsuits and that they would just settle to keep it out of the news.

I'm very sorry the little one was hurt but the story sounds hinky.

Niwel
09-25-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm very sorry the little one was hurt but the story sounds hinky.

I agree ...something seems off.
Why would Disneyland put a dog in its petting zoo?

It either
1) Wasn't a dog at all
or
2) Was a dog that belonged to someone who was visiting the petting zoo area
or
3) Was a dog -- but NOT at Disneyland

ChipmunkStar
09-25-2008, 03:43 PM
I'm just going to quote myself from another board:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember seeing that dog... he was very quiet and loving, and very calm. I remember returning to the area a few weeks later and hearing about some jackass parents who placed their child ON TOP OF the dog, trying to let her ride it as though it were a horse, and that's when it tried to defend itself.

But of course, that's all hearsay. And I'm pretty sure he was never in any parades or shows, he was simply there to laze around the Ranch area while the Roundup was going on.

stan4d_steph
09-25-2008, 03:54 PM
Interesting. It's strange that no one noted seeing it, since a dog that isn't a service dog is kind of unusual inside DL. I suppose we'll see how it plays out with the suit.

Malcon10t
09-25-2008, 04:07 PM
From the article: "The family continued to play with the dog - which Disney also used in parades as fireworks exploded overhead, the suit alleges - for a few minutes before Lena's parents decided to leave."

Since 2005, the Parade of Dreams has never ran while fireworks were going off. This is really hinky.

ChipmunkStar
09-25-2008, 04:10 PM
The dog was removed after the incident with the child. He was only there for a week or two after the Halloween Roundup opened, and then whatever happened with the child happened, and he was taken out.

cstephens
09-25-2008, 04:12 PM
From the article: "The family continued to play with the dog - which Disney also used in parades as fireworks exploded overhead, the suit alleges - for a few minutes before Lena's parents decided to leave."

Since 2005, the Parade of Dreams has never ran while fireworks were going off. This is really hinky.

Actually, in the time that I've been going, I can't remember fireworks ever going at the same time as a parade or something like Fantasmic even. They time them to be going on at different times.

disneyperson
09-25-2008, 05:53 PM
The petting area was open at night? I've never seen that area open during the firewoks.

Donalds Duckie
09-25-2008, 06:10 PM
I caught the end this report on KTLA news this morning and wondered what in the heck? A dog in Disneyland????:confused: Why would a dog be in Disneyland:confused: I have never seen a dog in the Big Thunder, petting zoo, parade, or an other area and I've been going to Disneyland since the week it opened in 1955.

It's a good guess that someone thought they'd get an out-of-court settlement from Disney.:~D

Thanks for this post. I've wondered a couple of times today what in the heck I really heard this morning.

Tinker Bell
09-25-2008, 07:05 PM
KTLA Says


The claim says a German shepherd-Labrador retriever mix named Hemmingway attacked 2-year-old Lena Dickerson. The family says the dog bit her several times on the face, and the bites have left her with permanent scars.

livingpixie
09-25-2008, 07:31 PM
I personally going to DLR for as long as I can remember.. (22 years now) have never seen a dog at the big thunder ranch, and after reading the complaint, i feel some things are fishy.. first a dog who had shown ANY signs of agression would not have been adopted out... family or otherwise.. any pissy dog would just not be safe for anyone.. a dog maybe snappig at a child being placed on its back for "riding" purposes i would expect some grouchyness... parents, (being one myself) use common sense! thats about all I can say on the subject

tchatters
09-25-2008, 07:39 PM
I know nothing about this complaint, but a lot about dogs. I would assume that Disney would have some of the same standards that I'm required to follow with my hospital therapy dog. She's a 10 year old golden retriever who has passed rigorous behavior tests and I have to demonstrate every year that she is not aggressive. One of the things they do in the behavior test is stand over the dog, push on their back and pull their tail, ears and paws. My dog doesn't even move, growl, flinch or blink. Obviously the goal isn't to hurt the dog- but to make sure that the inevitable child who pulls her tail doesn't get hurt.

I can't imagine that this story is actually true. If it is, then my next guess is that the Disney employee did NOT have permission to bring his new pet to work.

MickeyDogMom
09-25-2008, 09:51 PM
I have found a dog picture of a dog in the reindeer roundup.

http://render-2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6lQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3Axxr%3D0-qpDPfRt7Pf7mrPfrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6 xqpxQQQlxeaaxQaJxQQQleaaQaJ0QlqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqq y7XH6gX0QPaJ%7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,332,442

http://render-2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6lQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3Axxr%3D0-qpDPfRt7Pf7mrPfrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6 xqpxQQQlxeaaxQaJxQQQleaaQaJ0QQqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqq y7XH6gX0QPen%7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,332,442

I know... I know... I'll shut up now. Just kidding everyone. If there had been a dog in the reindeer roundup as a pet I'm sure I would have found it. Although I don't know if I was there during those dates.


A dog in Disneyland????:confused: Why would a dog be in Disneyland:confused: I have never seen a dog in the Big Thunder, petting zoo, parade, or an other area and I've been going to Disneyland since the week it opened in 1955.

We have never met then... ;) See pics below.

My 3rd dog on Dumbo with his Mickey ears...
http://render1.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6lQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxWtUq4PJfrj%3DQofrj7t%3 DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQQ0xPaoxn0GxQQQ0 Paon0GQQlqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJa%7CRup6aQQ% 7C/of=50,332,442

My 2nd dog meets Pluto!
http://render1.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup60lQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7Kofrj%3DQofrj 7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQQPxPPaxPGlx QQQPPPaPGlQlQqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXoQl%7CRup6 JaQ%7C/of=50,332,443

FYIE- My dog is not the one in the 'lawsuit'. I assure you.

I'll go back to my corner now.

MickeyDogMom
09-25-2008, 10:01 PM
After reading the article, I don't think Disney is quite dumb enough to allow a "not social" dog to be in the play area. But yeah if a kid steps on their tail or rides them dogs will react; some cry, others bite. I love how they said something about "Disney letting kids pet stray dogs." I know parents that do it all the time! About half the parents I have ever met allow their kids to go up and pet my 75+ lb. black dog without asking. And then the parents ask "does he bite?" Although my dog is possibly the least vicious living thing on Earth besides a fern.

Drince88
09-26-2008, 04:14 AM
MickeyDogMom, your links aren't working....

I NEVER ask if a dog will bite. That's not a fair question - all dogs bite (even if just their toys/food!) - I ask if they're friendly/can I pet (based on the situation).

I had a TSA agent ask if my cat bit - I had to say "He might" because he HAS bitten me at times when I really piss him off, and a strange person reaching around him in his small airplane carrier could EASILY have been enough to piss him off!

stan4d_steph
09-26-2008, 05:23 AM
Since it seems there was a dog at the Roundup, however briefly, as witnessed by Chipmunkstar, the next question would be who is responsible for it being there? Because it is on Disney property, and the person in possession of the dog was an employee of Disneyland, most likely the liability falls to the Disney Corp.

I'm kind of surprised that no one raised an issue about safety issues regarding the dog before the incident. If I were the EHS person, I would definitely have been asking a lot of questions.

Malcon10t
09-26-2008, 07:14 AM
Here is MDM's pup on Dumbo (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q133/Malcon10t/LaceyandDumbo.jpg). And another with Pluto (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q133/Malcon10t/of50332442.jpg).

As far as the shelter releasing this information, I believe they have just set themselves up for a major lawsuit also, as most are not allowed to adopt out aggressive animals. This sounds SO made up!

ralfrick
09-26-2008, 07:31 AM
I have read reports of security dogs being seen on property, although one would think they'd have training to be around people. However, it is my policy not to offer opinions without all the facts.

A bientot.

corona
09-26-2008, 07:35 AM
http://www.new.facebook.com/album.php?aid=158002&l=3fd6e&id=878810622

smd4
09-26-2008, 07:46 AM
http://www.nametagmuseum.com/hemmingway1.jpg

http://www.nametagmuseum.com/hemmingway2.jpg

There are many reasons why you all did not hear about this. Things happen in the park all the time that, believe it or not, you're not aware of.

As I mentioned on another board, a few years ago, in a big wind storm, a tree came crashing down onto one of the Disneyland Railroad trains. The train kept moving as the tree crushed cars, eventually knocking the top of the caboose off! There were probably 250 people on that train--250 witness to one of the most bizarre things to happen to a train.

There was not one peep on the Internet about it. Not one.

I suspect there were a lot fewer guests than 250 in the BTR area when this occurred; and only a fraction of them would be paying attention.

So why is it shocking to you that you haven't heard about it?

The statute of limitation is two years. However, if a child was bitten, that statute extends until the child turns 18. So, they are well within the statute. They actually filed the complaint before the two-year mark. Points for being timely, even if you didn't need to be.

If you read the complaint, there is a LOT of detail given--dog's name, breed, pound it was adopted from, CM's name, dates, etc. The family could not have gotten all this information on the way to the hospital.

In other words, the law firm and Disney were negotiating for the past two years, each side presenting it's case, trying to avoid going to court. A lawyer would generally much prefer this route than filing a lawsuit. Anyway, those negotiations are how the law firm got all those details.

For obvious reasons, during negotiations both sides no doubt wished to keep the public unaware.

When negotiations broke down, all that was left to do was file a complaint--which is a public document that the press then reported on.

I'm sorry that you all believe that an incident like this could not have happened because you never heard about it. That was deliberate.

stan4d_steph
09-26-2008, 07:57 AM
Thanks for the photo. Did you take that, smd4?

I'm sure all kinds of things happen in the park that don't get reported. It just seems odd that something like this, that would obviously grab headlines, did not. You anecdotal evidence of the one train incident is another, but doesn't quite make a pattern.

With all of the detail that was put into the complaint, it seems highly suspicious to me that they would put details in there that are easily disproved, such as a parade with fireworks. The lawyer should have been more careful, since that is a court document.

I have a feeling this one will be settled and we won't hear much more about it.

Drince88
09-26-2008, 08:02 AM
I went through the court document - and the first part with the summary mentioned parades and fireworks, but in the later section it just said the dog was in an area with fireworks overhead, and NO mention of parades - let alone 'during fireworks', so that really does point to sloppy work by the lawyer.