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jojofitzh2o
07-25-2008, 05:39 AM
We just finished a wonderful visit to CA and Disneyland Resort last week, however I was very disappointed in Disneyland in regards to an event that happened to us. After riding Winnie the Pooh we took our 4 year old and 13 month old over to the "honey pots" for a picture. I let my 13 month old down to explore and he got his leg stuck in the small honeypots on the ground. By stuck, I mean really stuck, he could not move and we could not move him. With my husband with my son, I ran to Splash Mountain to alert the first employee and told them of the situation and that we needed immediate assistance. I returned to the situation, with my 4 year old now freaked out and crying to see her brother like that. A couple of visiting patrons began to help us. We tried water to loosen him and a patron even was tring to find some liquid soap to use. Several minutes passed by with no help from the park. Another employee from Splash Mountain came over to see what was going on and then left. Luckily with the help of others, we were able to get him out successfully. However, not one person from Disneyland came to assist or to see if he was okay. We are not people to complain and were just happy he was okay. After returning home and unwinding, I send Disneyland an e-mail regarding the event and telling them at what times just in case they had some video surveillance and needed to confirm my story. What would you have done in regards to this? I just expected Disneyland to have a better action plan in place.

Crazy4DL
07-25-2008, 05:43 AM
How frightening for you and your family - and your poor little one! I am glad it ended well.

It really surprises me that no one from Disneyland showed up. I think the CM you talked to dropped the ball big time.

Sending an email informing DL of the events seems like a good thing to do, imho.

ChipmunkStar
07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
I think if other people were still with the child, you should have stayed with the CM and keep insisting that Security was called, and not left until they did. I'm not saying you were in the wrong at all, and it is an unfortunate situation that would make anyone not think clearly and in Panic mode. But at least you informed the Park of the incident and now they can make an adjustment to the honeypots so that it doesn't happen again. "Training" for the CMs in the case of another similar incident, however, probably isn't going to happen.

Malcon10t
07-25-2008, 09:44 AM
Part of the issue here is, and I may be wrong, but the CM you encountered was probably not a lead, therefore does not have a radio, and is working a solo position, so there is no one to replace her/him so they can get you assistance. Instead of dashing back, I would have asked "Where can I find Security?" Or I would have gone to the store, where they have the ability to have a back up radio and get assistance. A ride attraction CM, while very helpful, often doesn't have the resources to summon help without shutting down a line. As soon as they see another CM, they can pass on the urgency.

ChipmunkStar
07-25-2008, 09:55 AM
Security, I believe, is accessible by phone to any CM, not just the ones with radios. Leaving a position such as Greeter should be OKed in the case of such an emergency to try and contact Security. Especially since we all know the first "Key" is Safety.

MickeyM00C0w
07-25-2008, 09:58 AM
Part of the issue here is, and I may be wrong, but the CM you encountered was probably not a lead, therefore does not have a radio, and is working a solo position, so there is no one to replace her/him so they can get you assistance. Instead of dashing back, I would have asked "Where can I find Security?" Or I would have gone to the store, where they have the ability to have a back up radio and get assistance. A ride attraction CM, while very helpful, often doesn't have the resources to summon help without shutting down a line. As soon as they see another CM, they can pass on the urgency.

Right you are. And on top of that, I'll bet the CM that was contacted was the one over near the fastpass or a safety position, meaning even if they wanted to leave, they couldn't go very far. Most positions on the rides do have phones where you can call the control tower or lead and then have them use the in park phone to call security and what not, but as you can see, it takes some time considering you have to go through a few more people to get to security. Also, you are aware that security and First Aid are located on the completely opposite end of the park? It takes me a good 7 minutes to trek across the park with the crowds, so you shouldn't have expected help to materialize out of no where. You probably would have gotten much better assistance had you gone to, say, the greeter over at Winnie the Pooh or a CM who is wandering around task optimizing...someone who can leave their position and assist you.

I know this is a scary situation and it's incredibly difficult to think straight, but there are a lot of factors here that add in to you not receiving immediate help. First and foremost was that the child was not injured, meaning you shouldn't expect your child's case to become priority. Also, it seems like you went into a small panic, which could have easily produced a miscommunication between you and the CM, leaving you running off back to your family and the CM completely confused. We get this all the time with people that lose their children. They run up to us in a frenzy, tell us the kid is lost, and then run away without another word looking for your kid. Obviously, we can't help you if we don't get anymore information out of you other than your kid is lost. Now I'm not defending the delayed response here. It is highly unusual since I know we're all very good at helping out guests in these situations, even if it is just to sit and tell jokes to the kid, but there are way too many factors in here that make it appear it really isn't the fault of the CM, especially if he was new.

carolyn
07-25-2008, 05:05 PM
Security, I believe, is accessible by phone to any CM, not just the ones with radios.

When I worked at DL, I never had a phone or radio or secret button to reach security - not once. If I were the CM in that situation, I would have wanted to help of course, but I probably would have been just as useless.

I am glad everything turned out OK.

ChipmunkStar
07-25-2008, 05:18 PM
When I worked at DL, I never had a phone or radio or secret button to reach security - not once.


But I'm sure you knew where the nearest phone could be reached, correct? Even if it were a pay phone, as I've been told those also directly connect to DL Security as well. The options are there, it's just whether they were used or not.

AVP
07-25-2008, 05:39 PM
But I'm sure you knew where the nearest phone could be reached, correct? Even if it were a pay phone, as I've been told those also directly connect to DL Security as well.From what I've been told that is no longer the case - dialing 911 from any park phone now directs the call TO 911. I believe this change came about after one of the accidents, (I don't remember if it were RRSC, Thunder or Columbia) as I seem to recall that CMs who tried to call 911 were instead routed to DLR security, delaying the response.

AVP

PanFan
07-25-2008, 07:24 PM
From what I've been told that is no longer the case - dialing 911 from any park phone now directs the call TO 911. I believe this change came about after one of the accidents, (I don't remember if it were RRSC, Thunder or Columbia) as I seem to recall that CMs who tried to call 911 were instead routed to DLR security, delaying the response.

AVP

I haven't called 911 recently, but I did long after either of those incidents and it was routed to DL's emergency response. We're trained (and I haven't been told to train otherwise) not to be afraid of dialing 911 for any situation where First Aid would be required since we wouldn't be tying up the city emergency response line. If the circumstance warrants outside assistance, the DL dispatcher will call for it. But they have easy and quick access to Anaheim PD and ambulances when necessary.

I think the delay here was a result of either 911 not being called at all because the CM who was notified didn't have access to a phone or radio or the fact that First Aid is quite far away from CC, so even if they were called it could take up to 10 minutes for them to walk there.

Bolivar
07-25-2008, 10:35 PM
Right you are. And on top of that, I'll bet the CM that was contacted was the one over near the fastpass or a safety position, meaning even if they wanted to leave, they couldn't go very far.

Are saying that a CM who is maning a "safety position" can't leave to deal with a safety issue -- the CM is stuck at position A to prevent an unlikely but possible safety issue and can't deal with a real and actually in progress safety issue at spot B?

That sounds like a Monty Python skit.

carolyn
07-25-2008, 10:59 PM
But I'm sure you knew where the nearest phone could be reached, correct? Even if it were a pay phone, as I've been told those also directly connect to DL Security as well. The options are there, it's just whether they were used or not.

I guess I could have found a pay phone, but I know I would have been fired for leaving my post. Being stuck in a honey pot, while definitely scary and unfortunate, is not a life or death situation. I worked in outdoor vending so that would have meant leaving money and merchandise unattended. The best I could have done was scan the crowd for a CM with a radio and sent a good samaritan guest to alert them to the problem.

MickeyM00C0w
07-25-2008, 11:30 PM
Are saying that a CM who is maning a "safety position" can't leave to deal with a safety issue -- the CM is stuck at position A to prevent an unlikely but possible safety issue and can't deal with a real and actually in progress safety issue at spot B?

That sounds like a Monty Python skit.

Whether you like it or not, I am hired to make sure the ride runs properly and safely, not to go save children who have somehow gotten stuck in a honey pot. Since I am hired in attractions and not security, yes, I am required to stay where I am no matter what the situation.

ChipmunkStar
07-26-2008, 12:17 AM
There's a slight difference as to leaving a Cart with merchandise and money (which the vendors are generally wearing, anyway... you know, when the office actually has aprons available [been there done that]), v. walking about 10 feet away from the entrance of a ride and asking a couple of people to hold tight for a few moments while you help take care of a pseudo-emergency situation. I'm just sayin'.

evrythngwmn
07-26-2008, 01:20 AM
A better place to go would have been the Pooh Corner store. Most of the register areas have resort phones.

MickeyM00C0w
07-26-2008, 02:45 AM
There's a slight difference as to leaving a Cart with merchandise and money (which the vendors are generally wearing, anyway... you know, when the office actually has aprons available [been there done that]), v. walking about 10 feet away from the entrance of a ride and asking a couple of people to hold tight for a few moments while you help take care of a pseudo-emergency situation. I'm just sayin'.

In an ideal world, that would be easy. But welcome to Disneyland, where more often than not, those people you told to hold tight will not.

Anyway, the base of the matter is if you are at a safety position and you stray from where you're supposed to be located, you've just placed yourself in a position to be fired. Plain and simple. As I said earlier, I don't think the original poster left much room for the CM to speak, cause if she had, the CM would have probably told her to go to one of the shops or to the Winnie the Pooh ride operator since they have access to a phone.

Side note: If you call 911 with any of the phones in the park, it goes directly to Disneyland security. This is to ensure maximum efficiency when it comes to emergencies. If you were to call 911 and get connected to APD, you would have to go through quite a few questions before they act and patch you through to Disneyland security. It's much faster to call the people in the park who can get to the site quickly and have them call outside help if necessary.

Leap for Joy
07-26-2008, 08:10 AM
I completely understand why some CMs would not be able to leave their post. But, if that was the case in this situation, the CM should have said something like, "I don't have a radio and am not allowed to leave this location, but if you cross over to ___ you'll find a security guard who can bring immediate assistance."

It's not the guests' job to understand the workings of CM placement. It is the CMs job to offer as much assistance as they can within the confines of their post.

Katlovett
07-26-2008, 12:01 PM
I agree that a CM who is not able to leave their post to render assistance should explain where to go to get assistance. I am surprised Disneyland does not have a secret emergency phone number for CMs to call, even if they had to use cell phones borrowed from guests if necessary - I daresay most guests would loan their cell phone to a CM in an emergency.

With regard to calling 911, that is what my mother did when my brother got his head stuck through the metal railing on the 2nd floor that goes around the escalators at a Mervyns. (Now there is plexiglass attached to the railing to prevent this from happening again.) We had unsuccessfully tried vaseline, mineral oil and the special slippery stuff that the jewelry counter had on hand for people who get rings stuck on their fingers. A fire rescue crew came with tools to cut the railing but happily, two especially big strong firefighters took hold of the bars on either side and pulled outwards while my mother gently pushed my brother's head backwards and working together they were able to remove my brother's head from the railing without cutting the railing. Nobody ever suggested to my mother that she had done the wrong thing to call 911 for help.

stan4d_steph
07-26-2008, 01:47 PM
I am sorry there seemed to be some confusion regarding your son and his stuck foot. However, my first thought was why was he climbing on the honey pots in the first place? I don't believe those are meant to sat/climbed on, unlike the play area at WDW.

Malcon10t
07-26-2008, 02:48 PM
I was curious how an infant got caught, then I saw it was a 13 mos old. Regardless, the CM probably should have told the guest they needed to go to the store or the Winnie the Pooh ride so they could call security, but if the poster darted off, they probably didn't have time.

jojofitzh2o
07-26-2008, 03:17 PM
HI, thanks to all thos that have read and responded. I was not forseeing this to become so heated. I guess I should have asked what or who would have been a better contact to summon in the area. To address a couple of questions that have come up, I would like to respond. For one, if the honey pots were not to be touched by children then they should not be on the ground for the kids to get to. The honey pots are an interactive area for kids to sit on and be around for pictures. If this is not the case then there should be a sign posting that. To clarify how my son was stuck was in the sense that his leg went in the middle of all the pots and then his foot slipped back under and through between two of them. Bascially his leg was at a 90 degree angle almost going in a backward motion. We were very fortunate that he remained calm and did not get distressed, as a baby does not understand what is happening. If he would have decided to resist and pull then that would have been altogether another situation I have a feeling. As to when I went to the CM, I was very direct with getting her attention, told exactly what happened and how my son was stuck. I also requested that we need immediate assistance. I did not just run up like a crazy person and then leave. I am glad that I returned to the scene as my daughter was very distraught and scared which I needed to to also direct my attention to. I did not post this thread to cause problems among the community, I just was curious of what others would have done and expected. I have to agree with some of the other posts that going to one of the stores in hindsight now would have been a better option. I would have thought that all employees had some kind of contact with security, but now I see that is not the case. Thanks to all of you that took the time to read my post and respond.

Autopia Guy
07-26-2008, 06:42 PM
I am surprised Disneyland does not have a secret emergency phone number for CMs to call, even if they had to use cell phones borrowed from guests if necessary - I daresay most guests would loan their cell phone to a CM in an emergency.

Uhhh, we kinda do... Its not really a secret, just a certain extension that can be called from the outside as well. Though I don't think they like that being done.

MickeyM00C0w
07-26-2008, 08:34 PM
For one, if the honey pots were not to be touched by children then they should not be on the ground for the kids to get to. The honey pots are an interactive area for kids to sit on and be around for pictures. If this is not the case then there should be a sign posting that.
...
As to when I went to the CM, I was very direct with getting her attention, told exactly what happened and how my son was stuck. I also requested that we need immediate assistance. I did not just run up like a crazy person and then leave.

Now I, nor anyone else here, am calling you a bad parent, but it's kind of common sense that certain things, such as plastic honey pots, are not placed there for your child to climb on. Sure, a sign would be nice for these kind of things, but when it's 9 at night and dark, would you let your child climb up and stand on a small brick wall to watch Fantasmic? A lot of parents do that, but a bit of common sense would tell them that it is a bad idea and their child could very easily get hurt. There shouldn't have to be a sign really.

I know I'm not the only one wondering this, but what exactly DID the CM say to you when you told him about your predicament?

Malcon10t
07-26-2008, 09:02 PM
My guess, and the OP can correct me, is it went something like this. CM: "OK, let me find someone." She finds a lead and they send someone to assess the situation. That person arrives, sees what is happening, and goes to use a phone to contact security for assistance. During the time security is on the way to the area, the situation has been diffused and when security arrives, everyone has left.

Jon
07-27-2008, 10:16 PM
It's not the guests' job to understand the workings of CM placement. It is the CMs job to offer as much assistance as they can within the confines of their post.

I absolutely agree. I'm not the type of visitor to whine about CMs, but it seems like there are a lot of CMs on this site who whine about visitors. In fact, at the moment there's an entire thread (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=108203) dedicated to it. Well, everyone's job would be great if it weren't for all those pesky customers. But that's life. Indeed, Disney does not expect visitors to know that a CM is at a "safety position" (or, in fact, what a safety position even is). Disney does not expect visitors to know that the ideal person to talk to has a visible radio, or that the best place to go for help is a gift shop. Disney does expect its CMs to be helpful to the utmost, especially in concerns of safety. All this moaning and eye rolling by CMs just seems like an overblown version of the break-room bitch sessions we had working at the supermarket back in high school. Yeah, customers suck. That's why the company pays you to deal with them. Either learn to live with it, or hurry up and finish college.