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Maximus
10-08-2002, 12:21 PM
I was wondering if the Lagoon has been drained or if they are still planning on doing that. I will be going back to DL in Nov and hope I don't see a big concrete pit without water in it. Any info about this please...

Cadaverous Pallor
10-08-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Maximus
I will be going back to DL in Nov and hope I don't see a big concrete pit without water in it.You won't. I have never seen it empty in all the years the sub ride has been shut down. It would look far worse without the water.

disguy
10-08-2002, 01:05 PM
Oh..I thought you were talking about Rivers of America.

Maximus
10-08-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by disguy
Oh..I thought you were talking about Rivers of America.

That is what I am talking about, the Rivers of America. Am I just nuts?

Pirate Bill
10-08-2002, 03:15 PM
Isn't the RoA planned to be drained early Spring next year? What do you think... more green walls?? ;)

Actually, I really want to see it when they finally do drain it. I'm sure there'll be some interesting stories to the stuff they find at the bottom of that thing.

roberts1398
10-08-2002, 03:20 PM
You definitely don't need to worry about November, but I understand it will be drained in January, for a complete overhaul.

Laffite
10-08-2002, 03:21 PM
Well, it's not very deep. You'll find the works for the Fantasmic show, and the rails for the Columbia and Mark Twain.

Bill Catherall
10-08-2002, 03:28 PM
:D Maximus - The "Lagoon" is in Tomorrowland...at least that's what it's popularly known as.

I've seen the RoA drained before. It was some time in the mid '80s. Very cool looking! They didn't have any walls up. You could walk right up to the railing and look in to see the muddy bottom and the track the Columbia and Mark Twain ride on. I wish I had gotten pictures, but I was a youth at the time and didn't carry a camera.

Darkbeer
10-08-2002, 03:33 PM
Maximus, you said "lagoon", the lagoon at Disneyland is the Submarine Lagoon, the water area in Frontierland is the Rivers of America (RoA). People were just answering your question as stated. So you are not nuts, and neither was anyone responding to your original question.....

disguy
10-08-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Bill Catherall
:

I've seen the RoA drained before. It was some time in the mid '80s. Very cool looking! .

I've also seen the ROA drained. I think it was when they were installing Fantasmic because I remember seeing the large sign about a new night time show there were walls up when I was there but plenty of windows to look out to see it drained. It was cool.

thekirk
10-08-2002, 03:40 PM
LOL..it's kinda funny to think of RoA as a lagoon...maybe I'm the only one to find that funny.

hbquikcomjamesl
10-09-2002, 03:35 PM
I've seen the ROA drained once or twice; they've been doing it every year or so since the debut of Fantasmic. If they didn't, it would eventually be choked with fireworks ashes.

I've also seen the Submarine Lagoon drained for repainting and replacement of the artificial plants.

tabacco
10-09-2002, 04:00 PM
Ah, not exactly. The river hasn't been drained since Fantasmic! was installed.

Grandbreaker
10-09-2002, 04:13 PM
I know that there are divers all time in there I hear the all call for it because they stop all river traffic

Sonya in Boise
10-09-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Bill Catherall
:D Maximus - The "Lagoon" is in Tomorrowland...at least that's what it's popularly known as.

You could walk right up to the railing and look in to see the muddy bottom and the track the Columbia and Mark Twain ride on.


Wow, the thought never crossed my mind that they run on tracks. For some reason, I feel as if my bubble was just poped.

:confused: :crying: :o

Sonya

MonorailMan
10-09-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Sonya in Boise
Wow, the thought never crossed my mind that they run on tracks. For some reason, I feel as if my bubble was just poped.

:confused: :crying: :o

Sonya

If you go exploring a lot on MP, bibbles will pop left and right. :)

Klutch
10-09-2002, 06:22 PM
A few years ago I heard the Disneyland Rivers of America were once drained because of a leech infestation.

True, or Urban Legend?

Ghoulish Delight
10-10-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
I've seen the ROA drained once or twice; they've been doing it every year or so since the debut of Fantasmic. If they didn't, it would eventually be choked with fireworks ashes.

I've also seen the Submarine Lagoon drained for repainting and replacement of the artificial plants. What you've seen is some reatining walls put up to expose the Fantasmic! workings for maintanance. What is being discussed here is draining the ENTIRE river, to the bottom.

idesign
10-10-2002, 08:27 AM
First Posting here, Long time lurker...

About the subs?... A quick observation would say that they DO float. It's the subs' hull that displaces the H2O (a hidden mickey, by the way ;) and the track does not support the sub. In fact, the track literally pulls the sub down, and guides it. No "popped bubbles" here. The subs were built by General Dynamics, who built the US Nuclear subs... They are (were) real subs!

About the lagoon? I'v read that the lagoon cannot be drained. At least without major engineering before they do so. The fear is that without the displacement of the water, the Matterhorn would slide into it. Structurally speaking, the water of the lagoon is it's own reinforcement, and without it, the walls could not hold all the buildings and earth built up around it.

So.. there ya go.. I guess...

:)

Ghoulish Delight
10-10-2002, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by idesign
First Posting here, Long time lurker...

About the subs?... A quick observation would say that they DO float. It's the subs' hull that displaces the H2O (a hidden mickey, by the way ;) and the track does not support the sub. In fact, the track literally pulls the sub down, and guides it. No "popped bubbles" here. The subs were built by General Dynamics, who built the US Nuclear subs... They are (were) real subs!

About the lagoon? I'v read that the lagoon cannot be drained. At least without major engineering before they do so. The fear is that without the displacement of the water, the Matterhorn would slide into it. Structurally speaking, the water of the lagoon is it's own reinforcement, and without it, the walls could not hold all the buildings and earth built up around it.

So.. there ya go.. I guess...

:) But the Twain and the Columbia do not float. That water is something like only 8 feet deep, not nearly deep enough for the ammount of water those "ships" would displace.

As for the theory that the sub lagoon provides critical pressure to support the ground udner Tomorrowland, I have yet to see any truth to that rumor. If someone can give a reliable source, I will gladly believe it, but I think it's just a rumor.

RStar
10-10-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Pirate Bill

Actually, I really want to see it when they finally do drain it. I'm sure there'll be some interesting stories to the stuff they find at the bottom of that thing.

My bro-in-law worked a back hoe at the bottom of RoA last time it was drained (in the 80's) and said they found all kinds on things at the bottom. Keys, wallets, cameras, lots of foreign coins, purses, coats, toys, ect. I think he said someone even found false teeth. The workers were constantly siffting through the mud for stuff. That would liken to an arcilogical dig for me!;)

hbquikcomjamesl
10-10-2002, 09:09 AM
Regarding the subs: they are real vessels, in that they do float, just as the Mark Twain and the Columbia, are real vessels (all right, maybe not the Columbia, but riverboats like the Twain normally have extremely shallow draft). But they are not real subs, as they are incapable of fully submerged operation.

In order for them to be real submarines,
1) the hatches would have to be not only watertight, but pressure-tight,
2) they would have to have ballast tanks, or some other system for adjusting the buoyancy (such as the gasoline-filled "balloon" of a bathyscaphe, or the descent, ascent, and emergency-ascent weights carried by a diving saucer)
3) they would have to have some form of propulsion that could operate submerged (the Turtle and the Hunley were powered by elbow-grease; diesel-electric subs run on battery power when submerged (unless equipped with snorkels, in which case they can operate at periscope depth on engine power).

Regarding the Submarine Lagoon, I have seen it drained, with my own eyes, many years ago, so I would classify the "Matterhorn collapsing were the lagoon to be drained" story as an urban legend.

idesign
10-10-2002, 10:26 AM
Yup, The lagoon has been drained for quick refurbs, the question is about an extended draining of the area. It could be filled in with dirt, but the dirt went to the berm, and to roof over the Subs show building (and then "frosted" with the autopia.

As for the columbia? She's still a fully functional vessel, and could float without her rail, even navigate. She's just FLAT underneath like the Mark Twain. She'd not take a sea, however, probably not even harbor chop.

Of course the subs real subs, but on the official launching, the US Navy delegation, including an admiral was so impressed he asked Walt "how did you effect the watertight integrity?". Disney Magic i suppose;)

Now, Ironically, there are unseaworthy vessels in DL. At least there was. The irony is they were one of the only two vessels in disneyland NOT on tracks. **Jeopardy music while you guess them** That's right! I have never heard of a canoe tipping over... but keel boat disaster!!! *funny*

Well... there ya go!

idesign,
US Coast Guard Desert Storm Vet and USCG Auxiliary Staff officer;)

smd4
10-10-2002, 11:27 AM
I don't know, idesign...I have no trouble believing the MT floats, since it is a riverboat and by design can navigate in very shallow water.

But you're saying the Columbia floats, eh? As a seaman yourself, I'm sure you know that tall ships of the Columbia's vintage were "ballasted" with tons and tons of boulders in the hold, necessary so that the weight of the masts wouldn't capsize them. Clearly as a flat-bottomed boat, the Columbia does not have the hold space for this ballast. Now, maybe, lead plates or some such occupy areas of the Columbia's hull to prevent capsizing, but I know there has to be something. What's your guess?

Ghoulish Delight
10-10-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by idesign
The irony is they were one of the only two vessels in disneyland NOT on tracks. Three vessels. The TSI rafts aren't on a track.