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MonorailMan
09-25-2002, 06:23 AM
With all the aritcals, and this coming down, I'm going to boil it down to one question:

With all this coming down, would you eat at Goofy's Kitchen?

My answer: Yes. While I do feel for the CMs that have gotten deathly ill, I would still eat there. I might feel a lttle woosey though.

tod
09-25-2002, 06:36 AM
As it is, Goofy's Kitchen is overpriced at $25 a head, the food isn't all that good -- you pay for the atmosphere -- but I've never been enthusiastic about the place except for that Thanksgiving when we had reservations for The Great Big Feast In The Ballroom and found that the "reservations" were about as worthless as an admissions passport when you were facing a three-hour Splash Mountain line. Goofy's was a Godsend that night. So was Top Brass.

Call this the last straw.

--T

justagrrl
09-25-2002, 07:02 AM
Screw eating there! There's no soap for people to wash their hands with? We're talking basic hygiene issues.

Black mold doesn't grow overnight people. That's neglect. And how bad is it that the union that should be supporting these people seems to turn their heads and ignore them.

Shame on the union for not providing more support to it's members.

Shame on the managers at Goofy's kitchen for letting it get this bad. That's more then gross. That's negligent. How many customers have gotten sick as a result of this that we don't know about?

Makes me think twice about eating from any place at the disney resort.

In my opinion, the behind the scenes areas should be treated just the same on the on stage areas. Would they allow a public restroom to be covered in black icky mold? Why subject their employees to such a thing then? Oh yeah - it's because the employees aren't paying them for the magical experience.

What's sad is that is has to come to some sort of public embarrassment to get them to clean it up.

disguy
09-25-2002, 07:43 AM
I can see a small mom and pop establishment having the troubles that Goofys Kitchen has. I can not see a muli billion dollar company having a restaurant that is $25.00 a head and is always packed, having issues like this. I will not eat there and I will tell others not to eat there as I've done since I've read this article.

opus
09-25-2002, 08:35 AM
Wow, I'm in a quandry now. We've got reservations to eat there in two weeks. My family is really looking forward to it. I haven't told anyone about this situation yet until I learned more about it.

On one hand, everything sounds really nasty and disgusting. On the other hand, it doesn't seem like too many people who ate there have complained about it. In fact, except for the pricing issue, most reviews/comments I've read seemed really enthusiastic about it.

Hmmm....

We picked GK because of the range of characters and that it is a breakfast buffet. I don't think my two sons would be as happy with Pooh characters at the Plaza Inn.

What to do, what to do...

RStar
09-25-2002, 08:58 AM
The problem is this:

Are we hearing the truth? Are those pictures actually of Goofey's Kithchen? Do we know the truth with the limited "say so" and "hear say" listed here on the internet? Did the problem, if it is true, get enough bad rap to get truely cleaned up and made safe to eat at? We tend to belive people here on MP because they are a part of our "Group". But folks, we need to treat all information wisely.

That said, I think I have heard enough information to be at least a little uneasy, and with all of the other places to eat I will choose some place else to go. But I always keep in mind that when someone else cooks and serves your food you are putting your life in their hands. It is a crap shoot. My wife and daughter ended up in the hospital and my daughter nearly died after eating at a Sizzler and getting Shegella bacteria food poisening (SP?). That was about 10 years ago. It took 5 years before we ate there again.

I hope that Goofy's kitchen closes, and reopens as a new similar character resturaunt that is worked under new management with the other resturaunts in the hotels so that these micromanagemnt problems get solved.

tod
09-25-2002, 09:01 AM
I don't know if they'd let you, but if I were given a tour of the Goofy's Kitchen facilities and they looked okay to me I wouldn't much care what had been posted on the Internet.

--T

opus
09-25-2002, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by tod
I don't know if they'd let you, but if I were given a tour of the Goofy's Kitchen facilities and they looked okay to me I wouldn't much care what had been posted on the Internet.

--T

As in, the actual kitchen? I don't see that happening. :) Has anyone else ever been able to tour a kitchen at DLR? Of course, then they hear it's me , I'm sure they'll let me back there. hehe.

I just looked on the DLR site, and it seems that the Plaza Inn doesn't take reservations. I've got 8:15 AM reservations at GK, and planned to be done right before DL opens. If we just go wait in line at the Plaza, I wonder how long that would take. Plus, it would be after the DL gates open, right? I think that's at 10.

Unless something very significant comes up in the next week, I'm going to GK anyway.

roberts1398
09-25-2002, 09:27 AM
My 7 yr old and I are eating there this Friday for lunch, and I won't bat an eye. This whole business sounds like sour grapes from someone seeking their 15 minutes of fame and a chance to stick her hand into deep pockets. I frankly believe almost none of it. Heap all the criticism you want on Disney, but this does not sound like them one bit, other than the normal stuff that all restaurants in older urban areas go thru.

This is not directed at Kevin, Mouseplanet or any of the members or posters on this thread -- but I have a real problem with how free speech and the internet in general are allowing people to smear businesses and individuals without any evidence. It's like those emails that fly around about missing children. Do you forward them without thinking? I always email the address always contained within the email to confirm that this is real. And you know what? Not one of them has turned out to be valid. Not one.

"News" flash for you folks... Just because it appears in print or online, doesn't make something true. Even Kevin's article tells you he hasn't verified that those photos are authentic. We don't know if they're even of Goofy's, or if someone has doctored them using the many computer tools available these days. Notice there are no distinguishing landmarks in the photos.

Like individuals, a business has the right to be innocent until proven guilty. I have heard no EVIDENCE at all. Just claims by a disgruntled employee. And highly implausible claims at that.

This whole business has the stench of those garbage emails you get, claiming KFC is using artificial chickens, or the syringe found in McD's ball pit in their playland. I stop those emails by depositing them in my trash without forwarding their poison on to others. That is what I am symbolically doing with this issue.

If and when we hear these reports from a CREDIBLE source, I'll listen. But a single (or even a few) disgruntled employees aren't going to keep me from enjoying a fabulous experience with my son at a restaurant thousands of people visit monthly with nothing but good reports (except for the dent in your wallet, but that's true everywhere in DLR).

There you go -- my not so humble opinion and advice. Even tho you didn't ask for it!!!

kennyhues
09-25-2002, 09:36 AM
Remodel the place with a display kitchen - it's the only way to make the problem go away in a way that 's demonstrable to the public and the press. A display kitchen is in full view of diners all the time - you couldn't hide mold and backed-up drains. So it would have to be clean, and the public would be able to SEE that it's clean.

Since the unions and the government agencies have made a bad thing so much worse, I don't think we'll ever know for sure who's telling the truth and to what extent they're exaggerating or downplaying the situation.
Walt would blow a gasket. Someone oughtta blow a gasket on his behalf.
Depending on how tenacious the press is with this, the rep of the hotel might be completely ruined, forcing another solution - Dynamite the whole hotel and start over.

When things are this broken, when common-sense ways of running the small things go out the window, it's time for Roy E. to initiate another coup. Thanks, Mike, for putting things right before. Unfortunately, after Frank died you lost your way completely. DCA's failure proves that you are not the visionary equal to Walt you wish you were. Step aside now, while we still remember that you saved our beloved Disney in the 80s. Stay too much longer and history will remember you as the man who ran the Disney Company into the ground, depriving future generations of the experience of Disney magic.

KarenW2
09-25-2002, 09:39 AM
I've never eaten at GK, but I have gotten food poisoning from the restaurant in Magic Kingdom, the one with the AA that plays the space-age piano and "entertains". Forget what that's called. It put a SERIOUS crimp on our last WDW vacation!

justagrrl
09-25-2002, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by roberts1398

If and when we hear these reports from a CREDIBLE source, I'll listen.

Didn't the register or the times run an article on it? You'd think they'd be pretty certain of the issue for fear of lawsuits.

Hydroman
09-25-2002, 10:21 AM
Given my current financial standing, the cost of GK was probably prohibitively expensive. And as a recently diagnosed Type II diabetic, I try to avoid buffets. But given the "possible" conditions @ GK, I now have another reason to not go there.

I think back to when I used to work for a small mom 'n' pop pizza parlor. The county health department would make routine inspections every couple of months, which would be preceeded by a "turbo close". We never had trouble with vermin or mold. :D

The LA times publishes lists of restaurants in LA county that have been closed due to unfavorable inspections. The county health departments in the area where I live conduct health inspections of restaurants. Establishments that receive an "A" rating proudly display a placqard in the front window of their eatery; as a matter of fact, some of these placqards have been stolen for display in more lowly rated restaurants. :eek:

Does the Orange County Health Dept. conduct routine inspections of OC restaurants? Of Disney Restaurants? Hopefully there is an Imagineer left on the payroll at WDI that can devise thematically-correct "A" signs for restaurants at the resort. :rolleyes:

innerSpaceman
09-25-2002, 10:23 AM
The question's not really applicable to me, 'cause I was never gonna be caught eating at Goofy's anyway. But just let allegations like this crop up (internet or not) about some restaurant at the resort that I do dine at, and that restaurant is off my menu. I don't care if it's newspaper reports, internet gossip, employee sour grapes - it don't matter to me. This is my health we're talking about, and I can just as easily take my chances with another restaurant whose rodent and mold problems have not yet caught the gaze of the public eye.

In other words, in the restaurant biz, public perception is everything. Not only had you better be sure to keep your place clean, you better be sure to keep your employees healthy and happy - because reputations are killed just as easily by innuendo and allegation as they are by actual dangerous conditions.

roberts1398
09-25-2002, 10:51 AM
And that doesn't bother you at all, Innerspaceman? The fact that someone could be totally making it up, hoping to jumpstart their acting career or just make a fast buck, and end up destroying an "innocent" business? That troubles the heck out of me...

kennyhues
09-25-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl Didn't the register or the times run an article on it? You'd think they'd be pretty certain of the issue for fear of lawsuits.

A news organization can legitimately run a story like this without verifying the claims by saying things like "Hanel alleges" or "sources say" or stuff like that. It's OUR failure of discernment if we then believe that the paper is reporting on the facts. They may only be reporting (and responsibly so) on the -allegations-, which in a case like this are newsworthy on their own. They're not that interested in making sure we understand the difference between facts and allegations. Either way papers are sold. Personally I think the paper in question is guilty of biting the hand that feeds it (who would pay attention to them if Disneyland were located in Sacramento?), but hey, welcome to the news business.

JeffG
09-25-2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl
Didn't the register or the times run an article on it? You'd think they'd be pretty certain of the issue for fear of lawsuits.

Doing quick searches of their websites, I can't find any indication that either the L.A. Times or the Orange County Register ever ran any story about this. To date, the only articles I've seen have been Mouseplanet's two reports and an article that ran in the Orange County Weekly, one of those free "alternative" tabloids that you can pick up in various convenience stores and such.

The articles I've seen have had a lot of unsubstantiated allegations and accusations, but I haven't really seen anything that seems like particularly solid evidence.

I don't have any current plans to eat at Goofy's Kitchen in the near future, but I doubt these stories would deter me much if I did. If I hear anything about formal health department or OSHA investigations, I might pay more attention.

-Jeff

Marty
09-25-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by roberts1398
...the fact that someone could be totally making it up, hoping to jumpstart their acting career or just make a fast buck, and end up destroying an "innocent" business? That troubles the heck out of me...

Troubles me as well roberts. In my job I get to work with lots of business people – from companies both large and small. On a couple of occasions I have watched as two businesses that I did work for fail when obviously false rumors were spread about them. It made me sick to watch years of labour go down the drain. And why, because people find it more convenient to believe rumors than to ignore them.

I think the best attitude is to just assume that all unsubstantiated rumors are false until proven otherwise.

peasy
09-25-2002, 11:36 AM
BELIEVE HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE AND NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR!

I'm telling you that if a bunch of people were walking out of the restaurant getting sick, etc. they would be closed faster than you can blink. I've eaten here (as have many of my friends) every year and will be back again in a week. I'll let you know if I get sick, because I never have before!

innerSpaceman
09-25-2002, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by roberts1398
And that doesn't bother you at all, Innerspaceman? The fact that someone could be totally making it up, hoping to jumpstart their acting career or just make a fast buck, and end up destroying an "innocent" business?
Yes, it bothers me greatly. But that does not change the fact that perception is everything. Why, just today I read a newspaper report that a man has won a big lawsuit against the LAPD for falsely accusing him of kidnap and sexual assault of a young boy. He has millions of dollars now, but his life and reputation have been ruined.

It's a horrible fact of life, but false accusations can cause total devastation and ruin.

In the Goofy case, it's not mere internet rumours that are the cause of the problem. There was a story run in the Orange County Register. True or not, that's the end of the ballgame unless the restaurant cleans up its act in a most publicized way.
And since perception may, in fact, be the only problem, the shell game of closing "Goofy's Kitchen" and reopening the same facility under a different name might just do the trick.

JeffG
09-25-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman

In the Goofy case, it's not mere internet rumours that are the cause of the problem. There was a story run in the Orange County Register. True or not, that's the end of the ballgame unless the restaurant cleans up its act in a most publicized way.
And since perception may, in fact, be the only problem, the shell game of closing "Goofy's Kitchen" and reopening the same facility under a different name might just do the trick.

Again, it was the OC Weekly that ran the article, not the Register (unless there was an article that I can't find). That publication certainly does not have the distribution or prestige of the Register.

I really doubt this story is having much of an impact on the restaurant overall. Outside of those that read sites like this one, I suspect that this story isn't well known. Disney is likely monitoring the spread of the story, but I'm doubtful that there is yet huge concern for the restaurant's reputation.

-Jeff

Hydroman
09-25-2002, 12:42 PM
Did some checking on the OC Health Dept. website. A number of food service locations at the resort (DL, DCA, DTD, Hotels) received an outstanding rating last year. Conspicuously absent from that list was GK.

AVP
09-25-2002, 12:58 PM
My grandfather was a professional chef. He had a rule - if a restaurant would not let him walk through their kitchen, we didn't eat there.

As a child, this was terribly embarassing. We walked out of more restaurants than I can name, either because they would not allow him to see the kitchen, or because he didn't like what he saw.

As an adult, I understand his rule, although I rarely emulate him. But, if I were concerned about a restaurant, I would definitely ask to see the kitchen.

Someone asked about the letter grading system. Orange County does not use letter grades. They do, however, require restaurants to retain a copy of the most recent inspection report on file at the restaurant.

I think everyone is right to be skeptical of what you read, no matter where you read it. The WSJ makes mistakes - I don't presume to say that MP is perfect. However, I did some of the legwork on this story, and I feel that we have given everyone - Disney, the union, the health department - the opportunity to present their side of the story.

AVP

roberts1398
09-25-2002, 01:23 PM
Adrienne -- don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming MP for running the story, as it is clearly relevant to this site. And I think the articles clearly pointed out that photos weren't verified, etc. I have no doubt you guys accurately reported what you knew -- that she's CLAIMING this and that. Not that the allegations were confirmed true.

I'm just troubled to see people quickly jumping on the "dump Goofy's" bandwagon with so little substantiation. I am constantly battling my teenagers' belief that if it's on tv, it must be true. And it seems to be the same here with a lot of people. If it's in print (virtual or paper), it must be true and I'm not going there. Period. Huh? Do you guys believe the headlines printed on the cover of those grocery store "newspapers?" Like "Truth Revealed: Princess Diana killed by Osama Bin Laden" and "74 year old woman gives birth to alien baby."

Come on ... as long as there've been newspapers, there have been inaccurate stories. Sometimes intentionally (ie: the grocery store rags), sometimes unintentional.

And let me hit you with another news flash ... there are more than a few people in this world willing to lie and totally make things up for their own selfish interests. Especially when there's money and publicity involved.

But this thread shows how destructive rumors can be. Just look at how quickly a story in the Orange County WEEKLY becomes a story in the LA Times or the Orange County Register. It's like that old game of telephone you played as a kid ... you whisper it to someone, then they whisper it to the next, and so on, and by the time you get to the end, it's nothing like what the originator said.

And isn't it odd that the OCRegister and the LA TImes haven't picked up this story if there's any merit to it? Don't you think it would sell their newspapers? Maybe the fact that they aren't printing it tells you something about credibility...

And Hydroman, you say it's not listed in the excellent ratings. I'm assuming there's a place there for dangerous/unhealthy restaurants. Did it appear there? Were there in fact any buffets listed there on the "excellent" list?

I am definitely NOT attacking any of you, just trying hard to encourage CRITICAL THINKING by all of you. Don't believe everything you hear. Investigate it for yourself before you condemn a business... Peasy's quote is perfect and oh-so-accurate... "BELIEVE HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE AND NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR!"

~Diane

jslivinski
09-25-2002, 01:43 PM
Personally, I don't think it would effect our eatting there. All resturants have problems like those sited. The story makes them sound bad, but it is only one side of the story and experience tells me the side we are hearing is the side that tends to exagerate. At least that is my feeling, it may not necessarily be so in this case, but until I see more information/proof I would not hesitate to eat at Goofy's Kitchen.