Caution: Opposing Fantasmic! Opinion Ahead

[smd4]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Frontierland/New Orleans Square was one of the most romantic, quietest, and relaxing places in the park after dark. You could move freely, enjoying the cool night air and soft sounds of Dixieland, and taking moonlit cruises on the Mark Twain had to be one of the highlights of my teenage years.

Now, the place is a virtual zoo, with people crowding and sitting everywhere HOURS before the shows! No longer can you walk liesurely from land to land, but are forced to take "one-way" routes around the place. Sometimes the crowds are so thick that one can barely breathe, and moving only a few feet per minute reminds me of being stuck on the Hollywood Freeway at Rush Hour--not something I want to be reminded of at the "Happiest Place on Earth." Evenings there are now loud, annoying, and severely lacking in Southern Hospitality.

I believe Disneyland really started going down hill when they made the decision to make large portions of PARK part of the THEATER. They also did this with that stupid fiber optic parade a few years ago, transforming the walkway to Toontown into ugly grandstands.

On another thread, it is mentioned that Fantasmic! might close down for a couple of years to revamp it. I say, get rid of it completely, and bring back the true elegance and charm that New Orleans Square and Frontierland used to have! I know I'm in the minority, but who's with me?

[innerSpaceman]

I, too, miss the former charm of the Rivers of America at night. I used to hang out in this beautiful and mellow area for hours after dark. But I do remember it being so quiet over there that all food locations closed hours before the park did. Stores did no business and likewise closed way earlier than other park stores. The place was a virtual ghost town, which may have been good for the Haunted Mansion, but I'm sure it was not so hot for the bottom line. I understand that management is likely much more happy that this end of the park has been transformed into an area that is constantly full of thousands of free-spending customers.

I wish they would open up an amphitheater along the otherwise unused northern portion of the R.o.A. with an entrance walkway from the Big Thunder Barbeque area, and build a new stage on the other tip of Tom Saywer Island (returning the southern tip to it's natural state of decades ago - before even the Frontierland Stage). That would enable Frontierland and New Orleans Square to return to their natural charm and would still allow for stores and food locations created near the new show area to rake in the bucks.

Still, it wouldn't solve the problem of no nighttime cruises aboard the Mark Twain. But it's a start.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

So what's stopping you from going on a night when Fantasmic isn't running? It doesn't run 365 nights a year.

[innerSpaceman]

Uh, there's only significant after-dark time in the summer, when the Park is open late. If the Park would simply stay open past 6pm in the wintertime, I'd be fine with that.

[smd4]

What innerSpaceman said.

Plus, as odd as it may seem, not all of us are AP's, and the only time we go is in the Summer.

[smd4]

InnerSpaceman,

Regarding your first post: as Gomez Addams would have said, Capital Idea!!

[disguy]

I love fantasmic but I hate be transported like cattle while it's going on.

[RStar]

As much as I like Fantasmic!, I too hate what it has done to ROA and NOS, so I usually avoid the area. Last Wed. night after seeing Lilo & Stitch at DTD my wife and I wanted to go to Le Gormet to get my favorite hot sauce "Scorned Woman". It's great and the only place I've found carries it locally. We were there at about 9:20 trying to get to that shop, right after the first Fantasmic!, and right before the fireworks. We couldn't move (my wife was in the wheelchair) so we stayed to watch the fireworks and let the Fantasmic! crowd die down. But even after that the crowd was still pouring out and we were forced to go through the Frontierland entrance. And of course the people were lining up for the second show of Fantasmic! so the crowd was still thick. It took us 90 minutes to get to that shop (20 of it was watching the fireworks though ) and back to MS. It was a nightmere!

[Thomas]

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Uh, there's only significant after-dark time in the summer, when the Park is open late. If the Park would simply stay open past 6pm in the wintertime, I'd be fine with that.

Uh, here on Earth, we have a thing called seasons. On or around December 22, we have what is known as the shortest day of the year because at that time, the Earth is tilted in such a way, that we only get a little bit of sunshine for the day. In summer, it is the opposite. In wintertime, it is dark just shortly after 4 pm. That gives you ample after-dark time.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Thomas


Uh, here on Earth, we have a thing called seasons. On or around December 22, we have what is known as the shortest day of the year because at that time, the Earth is tilted in such a way, that we only get a little bit of sunshine for the day. In summer, it is the opposite. In wintertime, it is dark just shortly after 4 pm. That gives you ample after-dark time.

k, this is not nessecary and uncalled for. Be nice!

[Rallymonkey23]

While I really enjoy the show, I too don't like the crowds. But I believe that it's a great place to sit down for a few hours and meet new people. I really like the idea that innerspaceman had but, with all the backstage antics going on, the ROA would still not be quiet out front. Plus it would spoil some of the show for people planning on seeing the last show. Just my 2 cents.

[merlinjones]

I really enjoyed the return of after-dark Mark Twain cruises this past winter... only they were slightly marred by the lighted work shed and lights of the parking structure behind the berm. A few new trees would fix this easily.

I don't like the idea of developing the entire backside of the River... I like the "virgin" frontier theme.

Fantasmic has never thrilled me as a show. The music and storyline are icky, though the projected animation on water is cool. I agree that it (and the crowd) has spoiled the area in Summer completely... and isn't even themed to the area.

Send it to DCA. Bring the MSEP back to DL.

[tinkfreak]

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Uh, there's only significant after-dark time in the summer, when the Park is open late. If the Park would simply stay open past 6pm in the wintertime, I'd be fine with that.

It does! The park hasn't closed earlier than 8pm (save the few and far between private party nights) in years.

[Uncle Dick]

Even after viewing Fantasmic! from "the Sweet Spot", I'm still not totally thrilled with the show. As previously mentioned, the night time cruises of the Columbia and the Mark Twain are beautiful and greatly missed. As a show, Fantasmic! is okay, but you can only shoot off fireworks and play recycled movie clips for a while before it gets a little boring.

[Kevin Yee]

I'm continually surprised by how in sync the members of MousePad are with my thoughts. I've been doing some Fantasmic thinking lately, and have an article on it coming up in a week or so that addresses many of these same ideas. I'll withhold my thoughts on it for now - wouldn't want to spoil anything - but I wanted to express amazement that once again the Pad seems to have supernatural powers in knowing what I'm going to write about!

[mkyears]

Even though most of the time I can't get enough of Fantasmic It does need something new. I mean it was gone for a long time and there is nothing new to see. I do want it to stay though because it brings life back to the park. I don't know if anyone had noticed it being a little boring before Fantasmic had returned to bring in the crowds which means more entertainment.

[sydney]

I'm so glad everyone's expressing their opionions. It always surprises me how many different personalities exsist on the pad. While I for one want fantasmic to stick around a bit, (I love it), It is crazy how much guest control has to restrict access/movement to keep everyone sane (and thank goodness they do, can you imagine how bad it would be without them?). I dread the ending of the show because of the 20 minutes it will take to get *anywhere* from that moment on.

But-- can you imagine how great it would be if they'd actually done something to change the attraction this year for its 10th anniversary? A fantasmic style representation of other movies and songs would just be sooo great. And judging by the success they had the first time around with the show and the success of adding units to the MSEP/DEP whatever we're calling it now....

You'd think the park would act the same way walt disney pictures does-- sequels for everything in sight... and while I love new experiences too... while they're looking for less expensive updates... why throw out the baby with the... well you know what I mean. I think. It's late, I'm tired. but thanks everyone for the interesting commentary...

[LIMANDL4EVA]

Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
So what's stopping you from going on a night when Fantasmic isn't running? It doesn't run 365 nights a year.

exactly what i was thinking
have you actually ever seen fantasmic? and you still wish it were gone? ok...thats just weird in MY opinion

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'll add another voice to the "love the show, hate the crowd" faction. Until recently, I've actually been pretty sour on the show. I was nearly crushed to death (okay, not really, but it was pretty uncomfortable) the first time I saw it, and since I've been very anti-Fantasmic! Now that it's back, I waited, got a good seat without being crushed, and was reminded that it really is a good show. Technologically well put together, not the greatest storyline but one that will hold your interest at least once, it's on Disney scale (bigger and more magical than life), and you gotta love the monkey dance! BUT, I still hate the traffic nightmare it causes. And now that I've seen it again once this season, I don't really feel like seeing it again for a LONG time. Not that I wouldn't enjoy it again, but to get a comfortable, good view, I have to camp out for 2 hours and that's just not worth it to me.

So yeah, love the show, hate the crowd. Doesn't Florida have a viewing area with bleachers or something like that?

[RStar]

Originally posted by Kevin Yee
- but I wanted to express amazement that once again the Pad seems to have supernatural powers in knowing what I'm going to write about!

Now if I could only do that with your MadScramble quests!

Bob

[smd4]

LIMANDL4EVA said:

have you actually ever seen fantasmic? and you still wish it were gone?

Of course I have, but that really isn't the point. Whether I love or hate the show is not the issue (and, truth be told, I really don't care for it).

The point is, that one of the most evocative, charming, romantic places in the park after dark was destroyed in the name of "progress," because some dunderhead decided that it was necessary to cram in just a little bit more junk where it didn't fit.

For those of you who remember, Tomorowland was always the "hip" after-dark locale (and, to a lesser extent, Videopolis), while New Orleans Square/Frontierland retained a quiet ambiance that could be found no where else. It's a shame that it's gone, and it's a shame that folks can't experience this place as Walt would undoubtedly have wanted it.

LIMANDL4EVA, your profile indicates that you were born on July 17, 1955, which doubt. So I paraphrase your question back to you:

Have you actually ever seen New Orleans Square before Fantasmic!?

[smd4]

Kevin Yee said,

I wanted to express amazement that once again the Pad seems to have supernatural powers in knowing what I'm going to write about!

I knew you were going to write that!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally posted by smd4
It's a shame that it's gone, and it's a shame that folks can't experience this place as Walt would undoubtedly have wanted it.

Weakest Disneyland argument every time it's used. 1) who the heck are you to claim you know what Walt would have wanted, and 2) we DO know for darm sure that Walt wanted the park to grow and change constantly. I don't mean to be insulting, nor to say your opinion doesn't count, but if your argument is "Walt would have wanted it this way..." especially when used to say that things should stay the same, I (and a lot of other people) just won't buy it.

Have you actually ever seen New Orleans Square before Fantasmic!?

It's still there when Fantasmic! isn't running.

[stan4d_steph]

I love Fantasmic. I don't have a great attachment to any sort of night time cruising on the water. I didn't grow up going to Disneyland so I don't have any "When I was a kid" or "Remember when" stories about the area. That said, I can understand the frustration some people have with the crowds and restricted access. However, I really like the show and think it is a great experience for the infrequent guest. These vacationers aren't necessarily focused on a romantic walk along the ROA, but want to get the most out of their limited experience at the park and in the Summer, they are the majority of the park's visitors. As a person coming up on the 1st anniversary of getting an AP, this is how I looked at visits to DL before I knew I could always come back another time if a liine was too long, etc.

GD: WDW does have seating at the location built to accommodate Fantasmic! in Disney-MGM Studios. In order to have a similar setup at DLR, they would need to do a similar thing and build an ampitheatre of something like that to stage the show. Maybe in the third park if it's not a water park? Otherwise, it looks like we're stuck.

The area is still quiet when Fantasmic doesn't run, which when you look at the AP timeline, is more often than not. Nightly showings are typically only in the busy times when you wouldn't necessarily have the area all to yourself anyway.

[smd4]

It's EASY to know what Walt would have wanted. He conceived this grand place called Disneyland (essentially a virtual tour of the man's phsyche), and specified EXACTLY how he wanted it run. It's the folks like you who are running the place who seem to have forgotten "what Walt would have wanted," or feel that it would be utterly blasphemous to try to think the way he did (Heaven forbid! We should never place ouselves on the same level as Walt, because we are merely mortals, and after all, he was next to God...).

That's BS.

It's too bad that people discount the "what Walt would have wanted" argument. If more people tried to at least look at what the man attempted and accomplished, and actually tried to think about things the way he did, then the park wouldn't become the maintenance-deprived, overpriced cesspool, a mere shaddow of its former self, that it's rapidly becoming.