'Tigger' accused of smacking young fan -- CNN/AP, 2007-01-07

[crrees]

heres the link..apparently tigger hit some kid on the head in WDW

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/tigger.ap/index.html

[bradk]

the orlando sentinel story goes into more detail, quoting the sheriff as saying there's definitely a battery caught on tape, but not enough of a tape to act on it.

evidently there are photos or video going around as well, i think on the dis.

but the sexual harassment suit mentioned in that article was unsuccessful because the defense subpoenaed the tigger suit to demonstrate how awkward the suit itself is.

although i believe the employee was the defendant in that case. if disney gets sued here, it's hard to say which way they'd go, especially since they were very upset with having to provide the tigger in the other case.

[Andrew]

'Tigger' accused of smacking young fan -- CNN/AP, 2007-01-07

A Walt Disney World employee dressed as the character Tigger was accused of hitting a child while posing for a photo, a spokeswoman for the theme park said Saturday. Park officials temporarily suspended Michael J. Fedelem while they investigate the accusations, Disney spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez said.

"Naturally, physical altercations between cast members and guests are not tolerated," Suarez said. Jerry Monaco of New Hampshire videotaped his son, Jerry Jr., posing with the costumed character at Disney-MGM Studios on Friday and recorded the confrontation, according to a statement from the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

Editor's note: Thanks to MousePad member crrees for the news link.

[bradk]

video used in an on-air report as well as stills can be viewed here: http://www.local6.com/news/10685989/detail.html

what is obvious is that tigger couldn't have really seen where his hand went, so if anything, it can be argued it was unintentional.

you can also briefly see tigger *place* his hand on the boy's arms after the 'attack' as if to suggest it was an accident.

it's also funny that the father is supposedly upset only because disney wouldn't entertain the idea that there is someone inside a costume and probably doesn't get it.

even if it was only an accident, the CM's going to have be displaced if not let go. it's not a risk worth taking in the future.

[Disney Vault]

It is so hard to tell what happened. I don't see why the guy in the costume would do this because he would know it would create a big problem. It does look like it was on purpose to me though. I wonder if the kid did something and I really want to hear the other side of the story. I don't think it is a punch though like the link above called it.

[raediance]

I thought the kid was going to be like 3 or 4 or 5 or something. Nevermind.

[GusMan]

You know... If something like this ended up in court and I was a juror that saw that video, I would think that the case is crap and dismiss it. (And I am not saying that from a Disney fan's perspective.) It almost looked like Tigger lost his balance or something but it surely does not look like he threw a punch at the young man.

At the same time, if the CM says that he is sorry for "hitting the guest", from a legal perspective it could be like admitting wrong doing. (And opening the doors for a lawsuit.) I am sure that Disney will not allow even a hint of that for legal reasons.

[bradk]

apologizing is NOT admitting guilt. even though i know some people personally who feel that way.

saying i'm sorry your relative died isn't confessing to a murder. i'm sorry i fell and hit you is not the same as 'man, i'm so glad i got to punch you in the face'

having disney agree that it's theoretically possible that there's a college student inside a bulky costume to the world is admitting something.

[GusMan]

apologizing is NOT admitting guilt.

I completely agree with you... and actually edited my post to clarify a little more of what I was trying to say. I personally dont think its admitting guilt, but a jury could actually see that as the perception of guilt. Its stupid, but perception impacts ones reality.

But actually, I happen to know of companies (not necessarily Disney) who specifically state in their policies and procedures that if you get into a car accident (for example), that you are not to apologize for any reason. Why? Because they have lost lawsuits because the courts saw it as admitting guilt.

It comes down to trying to protect the company from getting sued. And we all seen nuttier lawsuits.

[DianeM]

If Tigger actually punched the kid, why did the kid react as if Tigger was playing instead of grabbing his nose? There was no injury - the kid actually reacted as if Tigger was wrestling with him. I've been banged on the nose a few time (big, clumsy, affectinoate dog). When I get hit, I grab my nose. It hurts, even if I wasn't hit very hard.

heres the link..apparently tigger hit some kid on the head in WDW

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/tigger.ap/index.html

[bradk]

on that note... disney has some of the most advanced costuming in the business. as one vip guide in another theme park basically said to me, disney basically pioneered the concept. i'd be quite confident that the designs have been put through numerous tests to avoid most potential PI issues.

that said, goliath is really freakin scratchy

[Disney Vault]

apologizing is NOT admitting guilt. even though i know some people personally who feel that way.

saying i'm sorry your relative died isn't confessing to a murder. i'm sorry i fell and hit you is not the same as 'man, i'm so glad i got to punch you in the face'

having disney agree that it's theoretically possible that there's a college student inside a bulky costume to the world is admitting something.

I never thought of it that way. But I have always heard if you get in a car accident never to say you are sorry because it sounded like it was your fault. So I always just kind of carried that concept over to other things too.

[bradk]

well the car thing is one thing, since nobody's going to say 'i'm sorry you hit my car' (or maybe they do). in that case, whomever hits the other person is automatically at fault. and you have to deal with insurance companies and all that. it really is a different animal.

there is no doubt that the boy was 'hit' in the face. nobody denies it. there's nothing that has to be admitted to. it is a matter of circumstances. was it intentional? was it provoked? reportedly (although i can't find it online), the friend of tigger claims he was being choked (most likely unintentional) and was trying to direct the boy off him the only way he could.

and once you're found guilty in a criminal case, you automatically lose a civil case (because the former has such high standards for proving guilt).

the father did file a report, but it's unclear if he pressed charges, although the sheriff is investigating it, so who knows how it'll play out

[Rkkm]

I think the father is smelling Disney Dollars in his and his child's future. Deep pockets are awfully hard to resist.

[ErikBsandiego]

For the life of me I think it looks like the kid does somethign with his left hand, maybe give Tigger a neck pintch or try to take his head off. It looks like Tigger swings his arm to knock the hand away. The kid gets hit. And before we jump on the CM, try to have someone come up to you and unexpectedly pince you at the place where the neck meets the skull. It is almost a reflex action to try to stop that from happening.

EVEN MORE, if you haven't seen the father's interview it SMACKS of the soon to be announced 50K lawsuit for emotional damage.

[GusMan]

I think the father is smelling Disney Dollars in his and his child's future. Deep pockets are awfully hard to resist.

Sad but true...
And for some not-so-odd reason, I dont think we have seen the end of this little drama.
I hope that the investigation shows what happens and that there is a suitable outcome.

Brad, of course the car example is a different animal but I think the analogy makes a point when it comes to the legal world and liability. I mean, all the Tigger-costumed CM has to say is "Im sorry I hit you" and that is, in essence confessing to assault, with the possibility of legal action (civil suit) afterwards. Granted, if this was two people bumping in line or something like that, it would be different but we are talking about a CM of a very large company. I dont care if the dad and son say that all they want is an apology as I would take a guess that a lawyer would get involved soon somehow. Dont get me wrong, at one time, I would like to think that an apology and a handshake was the status quo for resolving issues. But I guess those days are long gone.

Of course, my opinion is just based off of my own experiences in the corporate world. Others mileage may vary and I respect that as well...

[hlbtimes2]

For the life of me I think it looks like the kid does somethign with his left hand, maybe give Tigger a neck pintch or try to take his head off. It looks like Tigger swings his arm to knock the hand away. The kid gets hit. And before we jump on the CM, try to have someone come up to you and unexpectedly pince you at the place where the neck meets the skull. It is almost a reflex action to try to stop that from happening.

EVEN MORE, if you haven't seen the father's interview it SMACKS of the soon to be announced 50K lawsuit for emotional damage.

I totally agree. I think the kid was up to something, and the dad comes across as a jerk that is out to get some money.

[disneyroxxx]

the kid dodged more than he got hit. it looked like the tigger lost his balance, and tried to hold on to something before he fell over the fence, and unfortunately he had to grab the kid. and the kid punched him right back!

people always overreact about these things.

[SoCalDude]

what is obvious is that tigger couldn't have really seen where his hand went, so if anything, it can be argued it was unintentional.

you can also briefly see tigger *place* his hand on the boy's arms after the 'attack' as if to suggest it was an accident.

Tigger had the kid's arm locked up, Tigger knew exactly where the kid was. And it looked like Tigger placed his hands on the kids arms after the slap to prevent the kid from either attacking back or to continue what the kid was doing to tick Tigger off.

This is what I saw in the video as I posted on another forum:

- The kid has his arm around Tigger's neck
- Tigger is not moving and has steady footing
- Tigger locks up the kid's arm hard so the kid can not move
- Tigger takes two steps as he turns into the kid
- As Tigger turns you can see his tail is nowhere near the kid's hand
- Tigger hits/slaps the kid

I do believe the kid was doing something other than pulling on the tail - at least I hope so and this was not some random Tigger slap. It really does look like Tigger is reacting to something that the kid is doing.

[bradk]

well as i posted earlier, there are claims that the kid was pulling on tigger's back , effectively choking tigger.

what you also perhaps saw that you didn't note is that after the 'slap,' tigger gently places his hand on the kids arm, perhaps as a gesture of consolation. the video clip shown on air briefly shows this, but is obviously cut short to conceal anything other than the 'attack'

fact is, if tigger was in fact being choked, he didn't have much of a choice but to forcibly remove the child's arm.

[julbright]

Obviously, Tigger was being filmed and Tigger knew he was being filmed - I am sure he didn't just lash out at the kid for no reason. CMs are among the best trained employees in the world - while I am sure they are not beyond fault, I doubt that one would smack a kid while obviously being video taped. just doesn't jive... the kid had to be doing something and it had to be affecting tigger in some negative way - like choking or throwing off balance - and tigger needed to get his attention....

[Leli]

Tigger had the kid's arm locked up, Tigger knew exactly where the kid was. And it looked like Tigger placed his hands on the kids arms after the slap to prevent the kid from either attacking back or to continue what the kid was doing to tick Tigger off.

This is what I saw in the video as I posted on another forum:

- The kid has his arm around Tigger's neck
- Tigger is not moving and has steady footing
- Tigger locks up the kid's arm hard so the kid can not move
- Tigger takes two steps as he turns into the kid
- As Tigger turns you can see his tail is nowhere near the kid's hand
- Tigger hits/slaps the kid

I do believe the kid was doing something other than pulling on the tail - at least I hope so and this was not some random Tigger slap. It really does look like Tigger is reacting to something that the kid is doing.

Watching the video, it almost look like Tigger struggles and reaches for his own neck but realizes he can't do anything there and then goes to push the kid away but hits him in the face instead.

[Disney Vault]

Now the more I think about it and after reading the WDW update I feel that kid did something. Maybe he didn't even know what he was doing but there is so much more to this story.

[Disney Magic]

Something is wrong here. If the child who is as almost as tall as tigger is just standing there for a photo op why is he leaning so far away to begin with. He is doing something with his left hand or he would not be stretching so far behind tigger. I hope the truth comes out but propable won't. I think it was provoked. he had to have grab him in someway.

[Disney Vault]

Was there no other CM there. Don't they usually have guids or is that only when they are walked to and from backstage?

And do the costumes have a zipper that the kid could have been reaching for?