Security at the turnstyles?

[Gail T]

Ooops, I replied to another post, here is the new thread.

How are the lines at the turnstyles to get into the parks, are bags or fanny pouches being serched? I am just trying to prepare myself for the changes that have occured since 9-11?

[HTHBellcaptain]

The lines all depend on how busy the day is. During Spring Break the security lines were very long. They do check all bags.

[Lani]

Yes, they check bags at all park entrances. No, they don't necessarily have an express lane for people with no bags. No, the lines are not clearly marked for easy identification. Yes, they easily miss things that are hidden in clothing pockets. And yes, I think it's a real joke; what an insult to my intelligence. I despise it, and take every opportunity to share my views.

[Gail T]

lani, I have to agree with you and it seems like it will be a pain but I guess if people want to go that is something that we are all gonna deal with, even though I think it is stupid.

[disneyholic family]

and what exactly do they think they'll find in those bags?....
a big object labelled "bomb"?
suicide bombers strap them onto their bodies not in their daypacks....

[Iceman]

Yes, but non-suicide bombers put their explosives in things just like backpacks, and there are a lot more people in the world willing to lug a day-pack full of explosives someplace to kill others than there are willing to blow themselves up too.

I agree that security needs to be smarter, but we need to accept a few more inconveniences in our lives these days. Standing in line for a few minutes and having a guard look in backpacks doesn't seem like that big a deal.

And the last three times I've been to Disney parks they did have an express line for people with no bags.

This seems to be a real hot button topic for a few people here, and I'm just wondering what kind of security they think should be implemented in place of what we have now?

[efoxx]

Lani
your remarks are exactly how we felt after our visit in Oct.

there were several instances of people cutting in line at the inspection tables. and the "guards" could care less, even when I complained to one. The worst of it was when we got cought at the studios during one of the super soap weekends. if we had known what we were in store for, we would have stayed away. instead there were thousands of rabid, I mean down right crazy people forcing their way up too the tables, cutting through what ever lines sort of existed. we heard from more then one "lady" that they should'nt have to wait, because they're there for their "soap families". my little girl got literally knocked down by one person as she flung her bag in front of my wife and onto the table. when I spoke to her (ok yelled) she snapped back that I should control my kid better so as not to get in other peoples way. needless to say I also had words with guest relations, and they said that Disney was "working" to improve the system". sounds like they've done a lot of work

[disneyholic family]

i didn't make myself clear Iceman....
it's fine to check peoples bags, but there's no point to looking in the bags if you don't also make some effort to check out the bodies as well...or rather what's hiding under people's clothes...
searching the bags is only half of the effort.....
not at all effective against a terrorist....which is why they're doing the searches to begin with...
so either you do the search completely or don't do it at all...

[Iceman]

I do see your point and part of me agrees. But can you imagine the outcry from personal privacy advocates and line-haters alike if Disney started doing this? I think they are trying to find a balance between security and convenience, which is just what the airline industry is struggling with. I guess I'm happy with where the balance lies for now, although like you I'd rather we could go back to the happy-go-lucky days where there was NO security going into the parks. Maybe I'm too much of a Pollyanna, but I hope that the world will become a safer place again in years to come and that we can regain some of our lost innocence.

[Lani]

Originally posted by Iceman
I do see your point and part of me agrees. But can you imagine the outcry from personal privacy advocates and line-haters alike if Disney started doing this? I think they are trying to find a balance between security and convenience, which is just what the airline industry is struggling with.

Iceman, one of the reasons I sound so cynical is because I consider myself an experienced veteran traveler who has made a career out of helping to teach people how to pack for travel (check out my Travelite Web site sometime).

I am all with disneyholic family. I suspect the bag checks at the pasrks are there to placate people's fears and insecurities more than anything. As for security and convenience, I would suggest the following for the parks:

1. Create well-marked signs ("Security inspections ahead, please be prepared to show the contents of your belongings") and queues using stanchions (DUH... isn't Disney famous for this??) in front of the security area.
2. Always have an express lane for people without any bags
3. Use metal wands to go over people's bodies

#3 is conducted regularly in many county fairs and amusement parks already. We went through this at the Paul McCartney concert recently.

As for "line-haters," your suggestion that people going to Disney parks are not willing to stand in line doesn't really wash. Even the most optimistic veteran AP holder knows there are some lines one must wait through.

[disneyholic family]

half the job won't do the job....
for that reason we're quite upset about flying inside the US....
i was contemplating all sorts of alternatives, but we don't have the time to drive......so i guess we're stuck with the partial security of the airlines there....i'd much prefer getting us to new york and then driving the rest of the way.....

[Lani]

Originally posted by disneyholic family
half the job won't do the job....
for that reason we're quite upset about flying inside the US....

So am I. what makes matters worse is that by federalizing the security screeners, we no longer have any recourse should they behave inappropriately. They cannot get easily fired, they will have civil service jobs for life, and they will be little better than what we have now.

I would advocate the federalizing of screeners only if it means the screeners go through the same training as customs agents. I want them to be able to carry a badge and bear the responsibility of being an agent.

More than anything however, I want Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta to resign. He has gone on record (from what I understand) that he refuses to conduct racial profiles because his family went through racial profiling during WWII when they were sent to Japanese-American internment camps.

Well hello? I think there is quite a difference between rounding up every single US citizens of Japanese ancestry to summarily put put in jail (camp), and another to compare each passenger with a specific list of known features of suspected terrorists, then conducting more thorough inspections for those individuals who fit the profile.

I can't help it that so far, all of the terrorists are Middle Eastern men. And if the profile changes in the future (for example, if it extends to Indonesian women in their 50s), then fine, conduct secondary interviews with them then.

I have personally witnessed white American female senior citizens get pulled aside at the boarding gate for "random security checks" and who have had all of their personal and private belongings pulled out of their carry-ons for all the passengers to see. I believe this is humiliating (to do this in public without a privacy screen) and a waste of time (why should it be random?)?

[Iceman]

Just because people go to a Disney park doesn't mean that they like standing in line! This thread was started by Gail asking how long the lines are at the gates. Others have mentioned line-cutters and people getting rude because they have to wait. And you wanting an express line (which I've already said they have had every time I've been since 9/11) is exactly because YOU DON'T WANT TO WAIT IN LINE. Now just imagine how much longer you'd have to stand in line if they did a wand check of every person entering the gates. They don't even do that at airports.

Speaking of airport security (and you have a nice website but I think my nearly 1,000,000 miles means I've got a little experience with flying too), I agree that profiling should be allowed and acknowledged, but I still see the need for random checks. We can afford neither the time nor the expense of thoroughly checking every air passenger. If we say that innocent-looking little old ladies are exempt from having their bags randomly checked, then we have opened a gaping loophole that future terrorists can exploit. Do you not think they could recruit any little old ladies to blow up planes? The 9/11 hijackings took place because the terrorists studied our security methods, then identified and exploited weaknesses.

One thing we both agree on is that many security measures are put in place simply to make people FEEL safer. "Oh, the government is doing something therefore it must be safe to fly." I have even worked on explosives detection systems for the military whose technology we transferred to the FAA. They chose not to procure these rather expensive but effective machines and instead chose to spend their limited funds on more visible but less useful methods.

The only way to make flying safe is to ground all the airplanes. The only way to prevent a terrorist attack at Disneyland is not to let anyone in. We choose, as people in a civilized society, to accept a limited degree of risk in order to realize the benefits of things like flying and going to theme parks. You and disneyholic family have implied that we should do security all the way or not at all, and neither one of those options is viable. Instead, we have to find a suitable balance between factors like safety, security, convenience, and cost. I, for one, think Disney has got the balance just about right.

[disneyholic family]

you're probably right Iceman....
and obviously, i choose to live with that risk (flying to the states despite the risks, then all around the states....visiting a highly visible terrorist target - WDW....and the Disney Cruise as well, for that matter)...
however i have to admit that certain fears have crept into the back of mind about the upcoming WDW pilgramage.....
last summer i was totally shocked....
well....i'm not going to say what i was going to say, because i'll sound bigotted.....
but let's put it this way.....i was used to the largest contingents of foreign visitors to WDW being from brazil. argentina and britain...
last summer those 3 groups couldn't hold a candle to another one that .....well...i'm not going to go there....
but there's no denying the thoughts are rolling around in my head.......being caught on the rock and roller coaster or space mountain with someone who has decided to become a shahid (oops...probably just gave myself away)...
but i confess....the thought has crossed my mind...and i don't think the thought would have crossed my mind at all if not for our impressions of WDW last year...

[Iceman]

It is a shame that we all have to have those thoughts now. And contrary to what the political correctness police say, I don't think that makes us racist. Lani made a great point about profiling--since we can't inspect everyone in detail, let's use statistics to tell us the most likely criminals and then randomly check everyone else. Mathematics is colorblind.

I will add one large group of WDW visitors that I had gotten used to seeing: the Japanese! My last couple of trips it seems like those numbers have dropped off too (because of their economy? the opening of Tokyo Disney Sea?).

[HTHBellcaptain]

Disneyholic Family,

I would not let the current situation disturb you to the point of rethinking your visit to the U.S. Terrorism has been going on for decades in other countries. Now it has found it's way to America. I remember seeing all sorts of bomb blasts in England on the news. Granted they weren't of the same magnitude as the ones on Sept. 11, but it is risky living or going anywhere in the world, not just the U.S.

I honestly do not think that WDW is a high priority target for terrorist groups. That doesn't mean that proper precautions shouldn't be taken.

The attackers on Sept. 11, had political goals. Attack the government and the Western economy. Attacking the World Trade Center, they thought would devistate the economy, since so many wall street key players were there.

While it is, or course, possible that they could attack WDW, I do not feel that it would be likely. There are other strategicly stronger targets, that would allow them to make a political statement, instead of just committing mass murder.

Anyone who attacks WDW is attacking the entire world, not just America or the west. Deliberately killing children from around the world would not be tollerated by any nation, including all of the Arab nations that Bin Laden and his group want to support him. I do not think that they would make such a strategicly unsound attack.

Any thing is possible, but keep in mind how big the U.S. is. Israel is much smaller than the state of Florida, and that's just one state. Statistically, I think you run a far greater chance of being in a fatal car accident (God forbid) than being caught in a terrorist attack at WDW.

As far as the security measures that have been mentioned, please keep in mind that the security measures that you don't see are far more effective than the ones that you know about.

I hope this helped to ease your mind.

[disneyholic family]

of course what you're saying is correct and rational, and that's why life goes on.....besides which, you can't let the terrorists win by getting us to change our way of life.....in other words, of course we're still going to WDW etc etc...
one thing though......i disagree with you about mickey not being a target....mickey IS america......in the movie in animation, robin williams turns into mickey and is excited to be a corporate symbol......but MM is much more than that.....corny to say, but mickey is a symbol of america....to most people he makes us smile and think of the greatness and wonder and joy and all that is good about america....but to a significant number of people in the world, he is the symbol of american hegemony......what better target to bring down....

it wasn't goverment, nor the economy, it was who we are that they want to destroy....and mickey is who we are.....
(geez...i really am a disneyholic.......)

the truth is, i don't believe that america understands that yet...(not the idea that WDW may be a target, but rather that they truly are out to destroy us....and it's not a small handful of people, but rather hundreds of millions.....)

i pray to god it doesn't take something a whole lot more catastophic than sept 11 before america does get it....because by then it will be too late...

Iceman...
you're right.....i think we saw far fewer japanese this past summer.......much fewer.....i suspect it has more to do with the economy than disneysea......while they enjoy going to the tokyo parks, they really need to get out of japan to be able to loosen up and enjoy themselves fully......i'm always amazed at how free they seem when they're in WDW......when we were in tokyodisneyland, while it was obvious they were enjoying themselves immensely, they also quite obviously retained that very reserved japanese facade.......WDW affords them the freedom to let down their hair.....