Marathon snafu article now up

[marktips]

Okay, I do understand the problem better now.

Volunteers manning the checkpoint at the Contemporary screwed up - these are volunteers though.

Remember, very few people along that route were Disney's own people, they were volunteers who came in for the day to help.

No one was in danger though - an alpha unit is actually right back there for the MK at all times. With the CMs present if anyone had a problem it would of been dealt with immediately - just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not actually there.

I don't agree that waiting 45mins was too long. That's just my opinion from my experience with Disney and while annoying there's often nothing that can be done about it more often than it was someone's actual "fault."

Things i'd like to know: Did a second bus come? Did Disney make an official statement about what happened? Has anyone asked them to?

[marktips]

Oh - and my comment about the train wasn't a "paying customer" mentality insinuation at all.

It's jsut that the train was planned well in advance to move and close that entrance to the park - so obviously the runners would need to be stopped before or at that point. Apparently, the prior sweep point failed.

[AVP]

I don't agree that waiting 45mins was too long.

Run / walk 10 miles in 3 hours, and then we'll talk. There is a reason there are "foils" at marathon finish lines, and it is a serious safety issue. Having nothing but wet grass or hot asphalt to sit/stand on/in for 45 minutes is completely unacceptable, and the coaches caught in the swept were nearly beside themselves with anger at the conditions.

Did a second bus come?

No. There were none reserved / scheduled / planned for mile 10, and the traffic was such that they could not get the busses to us. THIS is why we waited 45 minutes. They were totally unprepared for anyone to be there.

Did Disney make an official statement about what happened?

Not yet, though one is supposedly forthcoming.

Has anyone asked them to?

Yes. And nobody who has written to Disney about their experience has received a response.

AVP

[marktips]

Well, i'm sorry - if that helps.

My assumption: Mile 10 closed, volunteers left or were cleared for safety, and you got CMs whose job it was to keep people out. So, they were doing their jobs - let me tell ya, access control CMs backstage aren't paid to be friendly. More like a bouncer at a nightclub - best way I can think to explain it.

Mile 9 made the mistake and Disney is probably in the proccess of figuring out what happened and why.

Your written stuff all goes to Guest Communications - it's an entirely seperate entity from Guest Relations. They work in the Team Disney building and "answer letters in the order they were received" so that is probably just moving through their snail paced systems - not Disney trying to ignore the fact. Then they have to contact people, then they get data, confirm stuff about you, about who was working, who was in charge of what, who is blaming who - yadda yadda. It'll take a while, but I don't think it'll be pigeon holed and ignored.

But what happens next? What could Disney do to make it better? What if the mistake really was a volunteer's fault or someone not controled by Disney?

[AVP]

But what happens next? What could Disney do to make it better? What if the mistake really was a volunteer's fault or someone not controled by Disney?

Re-read the article: "However, MousePlanet has learned that the shut-out was due to an unprecedented decision from an operations manager at the Magic Kingdom, who for the first time in the marathon's 12-year history, issued a directive that no runners be allowed to enter after the park opened."

This *is* someone controlled by Disney, and not a volunteer, who went again 12 years of past event practice and made a decision that was not even communicated to the race director for 15 minutes.

Had any race officals known what was going to happen at mile 10, they could have stopped us at mile 9. Had any race officials known what was going to happen at mile 10, they could have been prepared with a plan to get us out of mile 10. As far as we can tell, the practice for 12 years was that those who made the mile 9 checkpoint were allowed to finish the mile 10 leg - through the Magic Kingdom - regardless of pacing.

This was the first year that was not the case. And nobody in charge of the race knew about it before the decision was made.

AVP

[marktips]

But that's where the train comes in. It was scheduled and staffed well before the event - it was in cast communications that it would be staged at Frontierland then moved (this effects morning park work, hence the communication - the train doesn't normally approach from Frontierland for the opening show).

So why didn't the director know?

[marktips]

By approach from frontierland I don't mean go backwards from the normal route - rather it had to go from Frontierland through ToonTown to Mainstreet - normally is comes in to the park closer to its destination.

[marktips]

More clarification:

MK is a clock.

Frontierland is at 9, Toontown at 1, Race Gate at 3 or 4, and Mainstreet at 6.

It was scheduled in advance that the train would need to go from 9 to roughly 5o'clock before 9am. The gate at 3/4 could not remain open.

This was scheduled before the start of the event.

[stan4d_steph]

The facts as you state them may be correct marktips. However, that's not what's at issue here. Communication among the involved parties broke down, and as the event host, Disney is to blame for this error. They handled the situation poorly and in a way that was not consistent with previous years where the event reportedly went smoothly. Sounds like the new race director screwed up, and unfortunately there were many participants who had a very poor experience as a result.

[marktips]

AVP says the decision was made that day though, and the director was not told for 15 minutes.

That doesn't seem plausible. This was not a snap decision - the train shows that people in charge of the park had full intention of shutting down the gate for weeks prior - back when I learned it was gona be stage at Frontierland.

If i knew it was gonna be at Frontierland and that a morning show was going to happen at 9am - why didn't the director?

The decision was not made that day.

[stan4d_steph]

If i knew it was gonna be at Frontierland and that a morning show was going to happen at 9am - why didn't the director?

Good question. Sounds like the people arranging the train schedule didn't communicate with the race director. Poor communication all around.

In the past, people were allowed to enter. However this was handled, trains delayed, etc., it was done. This time around, it wasn't.

[Mooshu]

My question is...Since this is the 12th annual marathon weekend.

What was the protocol the previous 11 years when people didn't make the time cut off? At what mile marker did they stop people for not making the time cut off and isn't there a plan to shuttle them to the finish line? How come they didn't follow protocol?

[AVP]

What was the protocol the previous 11 years when people didn't make the time cut off? At what mile marker did they stop people for not making the time cut off and isn't there a plan to shuttle them to the finish line? How come they didn't follow protocol?

I wish I could answer the question. Since I fully expected to be swept, I did a LOT of research to find out when / how it would happen.

(Yes, I know that researching what would happen if I didn't finish was probably less productive than making sure I did finish, but I was trying to be prepared. You don't just do a marathon at 33 years old and [censored] lbs overweight without a strong reality check somewhere along the way)

All Disney says in their literature is that there is a pacing requirement, and specifies there is a sweep point at the 10k mark, just past mile 7. From past participants, I learned that there are additional sweep points at miles 5 and 9. EVERY SINGLE PARTICIPANT I spoke to who knew anything about the sweep process said that if you made it past mile 9, they let you finish the race if *you* could, regardless of time. I spoke with people who had finished 2004 at 4:20 - that's 50 minutes over pace.

For their part, Disney officials (badge-wearing white shirts, not green-jacketed volunteers) along the course told me that I was fine when I hit mile 5 and the 10k mark. Just before mile 8, I was told that I'd need to make up two minutes by mile 9 or be swept. I RAN to mile 9. It was not a pretty sight. And when I gasped past the mile marker, I asked, "Am I safe," and I was assured I had made the cutoff.

Based on everything I knew about the race, I thought I had passed the last sweep point and would be allowed to finish.

The gate into Magic Kingdom was apparently scheduled to close at 9:00 no matter what, NOT 160 minutes after the last runner crossed the start line. And the last-minute decision I refer to was the decision to close that gate early, so that ALL runners would be OUT of Magic Kingdom by the time the park opened.

Again, that gate did not close at 9. Depending on the reports from the runners who were there, it closed anywhere from 2:50 - 2:56. ANYTHING before 2:57 was earlier than the pacing requirements called for.

What I want from Disney in all of this - a list of sweep points, and the times that they are enforced IF they are not based on the required pace.

AVP

[Lani]

Your written stuff all goes to Guest Communications - it's an entirely seperate entity from Guest Relations.

Do you have a better address? I have the name and email address of the race director but I chose to be courteous to him by not publishing it, and thus preventing a deluge of angry email in his inbox.

[teri]

Ah, I didn't see this thread when I posted on the other forum. One detail - the International Builder's Show was the next weekend - the official start, that is. So that is not the excuse.

There is no excuse. No rationalization, no justification for that kind of treatment of people who have paid their financial dues, kept the pace, and are out there meeting personal goals or raising money for good causes. They were treated poorly, and no lame rationalizations or excuses about train schedules, opening times or anything else are tolerable. Any attempt to imply that the participants brought this on themselves by not complying, or that their complaints are not justified --- pure nonsense. Nonsense. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, and these people deserve a real apology. Not excuses. Excuses fall flat real fast.

[Lani]

Teri -- from what I understand, a lot of the conventioneers had come in early so they could visit the parks before the convention got underway.

[adriennek]

The facts as you state them may be correct marktips. However, that's not what's at issue here. Communication among the involved parties broke down, and as the event host, Disney is to blame for this error.

Wait a minute.... stop the presses.... bad communication? Within the Disney organization??? NO! UNPOSSIBLE!

Is Dennis working at WDW now?

Adrienne

[teri]

Lani, I absolutely believe that given how crowded everything was that weekend. My neighbors noted that detail in your article... they tend to be sensitive to Disney criticism.

[marktips]

Guest Relations is desgined to handle Guest on property.

Guest Communications handles Guests who are not currently on property.

There isn't a way around it. It's like the hotel ressie's thing - WDW CRO handles all Guests prior to being on property and in rare exclusions they are told to contact anyone or anything on property prior to their visit. Same rules apply after a visit.

[teri]

I suspect that the people who need to know have heard by now. How they respond will say much about their character.

[cstephens]

I suspect that the people who need to know have heard by now. How they respond will say much about their character.

Actually, I think it says more about company policy or politics. I think it would be a bit harsh to judge someone's character because of what they might have to do or not do because of their job.

[Lani]

Actually, I think it says more about company policy or politics. I think it would be a bit harsh to judge someone's character because of what they might have to do or not do because of their job.

A lot of times, what a person is allowed to say is restricted by their employer. I wouldn't be surprised if some lawyers haven't already stepped in and started reviewing any potential press release and such for potential liability. Any admission of wrongdoing or negligence, for example, might cause someone to take Disney to small claims court for their registration fee back or something (I'm NOT saying they should or even deserve to win; I'm saying some folks are just that way).

[Lani]

Guest Relations is desgined to handle Guest on property.

Guest Communications handles Guests who are not currently on property.

Thanks for the clarification, marktips!

[Corwin17]

Guest Relations is desgined to handle Guest on property.

Guest Communications handles Guests who are not currently on property.

True, but one would hope that GC talks to GR when a guest complains (from home) about something that happened on property. Or would this be asking too much from Disney?

[teri]

Actually, I think it says more about company policy or politics. I think it would be a bit harsh to judge someone's character because of what they might have to do or not do because of their job.

Excuse makers and blamers should be ashamed of themselves, period. Whether they get paid for it or not. The executives and their representatives have a choice in how they regard their guests. If they regard their guests with contempt and denial, it says a lot about their character. How they respond to this will say much about corporate responsibility for publicized events on which they have profited from the physical and emotional efforts of their GUESTS.