Marathon snafu article now up

[Lani]

If in case you don't visit our front page regularly, my marathon snafu article is now up.

[lisap]

Great article, Lani. I don't run marathons (or anywhere, really ) so I can't understand totally the emotions about being shut out, but after reading it I felt so badly for those folks. It just ain't right.

[Mooshu]

Thanks for the great article Lani, I would have never known! I can't believe something like that would happen at a Disney function.

I hope everyone that it happened to at least receives an apology. I could only imagine training for the 1/2 marathon only to be denied finishing because of lack of communication on Disney's behalf. Talk about an emotional roller coaster!!!

[marktips]

My problem with the article is - did they not make it to the gate before the cut off?

WDW has very strict operational policies for safety. No one gets through backstage gates during park operation without a photo ID, not even folks wearing runner's numbers. Park operation began at 9am and they had intended for that to be the close of the window.

So, atleast understand that them closing the gate wasn't some strange act - it was a safety/security issue, hence the police being there and not CMs.

A thought: The Train was stationed at Frontierland station for the runner's to see. Park opened at 9am, with the scheduled morning show which involves the train coming into Mainstreet station. During that time, the train needs to get from A to B, and the only place in the park to go under the train is through the tunnels or under Mainstreet's station.

Not everything is so cut and dry as "they wanted to open the park and were mean" but rather they had scheduled park opening and a deadline and once the park began operation it was no longer safe to enter through that entrance - not for the guests in the park from a security standpoint, nor for the runners because of backstage operations.

[stan4d_steph]

Sounds like a poorly handled situation on the part of WDW Marathon staff. Bad communication and poor treatment will adversely affect this event. I would definitely think twice if I expected myself to be near the back.

Thanks for the article Lani.

[Mox]

So, atleast understand that them closing the gate wasn't some strange act - it was a safety/security issue, hence the police being there and not CMs.

The closing of the gate was not the surprise--it was going to happen at some point. The surprise was with when they closed the gate and how poorly the situation was handled afterward, especially since it was inconsistent with how it had been handled in the past.

BTW, park CMs closed the gate - the OC Sheriff arrived a little later.

Not everything is so cut and dry as "they wanted to open the park and were mean" but rather they had scheduled park opening and a deadline and once the park began operation it was no longer safe to enter through that entrance - not for the guests in the park from a security standpoint, nor for the runners because of backstage operations.

No one said that was the sole reason for the cutoff, but I believe that it was a contributing factor along with poor planning with regard to the number of participants and poor communication, both on behalf of the race officials to the participants as to when and where they could expect to be swept and between race officials and park management as to how the MK cutoff was to be handled.

Thanks, Lani, for a great article.

[Sheila]

The closing of the gate was not the surprise--it was going to happen at some point. The surprise was with when they closed the gate and how poorly the situation was handled afterward, especially since it was inconsistent with how it had been handled in the past.

Just to add, Mox was one of the folks caught up in the sweep at the MK and experienced it first-hand.

Sheila

[marktips]

I keep hearing "different in the past" as people apparently weren't swept before.

You can't begrudge them for finally enforcing a rule.

[Mox]

I believe that it wasn't so much that people weren't swept as the MK cutoff was not enforced so strictly. If it were just that they decided to strictly enforce the the cutoff this year, that is fine. All they had to do was make an announcement of some sort saying that if you have not entered MK by such and such a time, you will not be allowed to finish. At least that way, there would be no confusion. As it was, they were not at all clear about how they were handling sweeping.

[marktips]

As far as I know, the official registration material says if you do not maintain the pace and do not reach certain markers by a certain time period you will be swept and not allowed to finish the race.

[adriennek]

As far as I know, the official registration material says if you do not maintain the pace and do not reach certain markers by a certain time period you will be swept and not allowed to finish the race.

I thought the article explained it very clearly:

The gates were closed early. They were told they had to maintain a 16-minute mile. They were told the time would be corrected for the final person to cross the start line. They were told every step of the way that they were on-pace to make the cut-off.

They got to the cut off and it was closed early.

Adrienne

[Mox]

As far as I know, the official registration material says if you do not maintain the pace

This is true.

and do not reach certain markers by a certain time period

This is not. Actually, that would have been very helpful.

[marktips]

The park opening was scheduled for 9am with restaging of the train scheduled for that time as well. There was no way that the gate entrance could of been held open with park opening.

So, if park opening was set in stone and that part of the course was to be reclaimed then how could someone get there after it closed at the 9am opening time and still be on pace?

Are you sure it was closed early instead of being behind pace?

The article itself says they were behind and warned of it but could catch up if they sped up - not wether or not they managed to speed up.

[marktips]

This is true.
This is not. Actually, that would have been very helpful.

Well, as much as it helps now - as far as I know that's how it's always been done beause much of the course is reclaimed for day guests and CMs backstage work areas - and it is timed so that they can operate properly.

[marktips]

Additionally, I think including the "emotional details" was simply an attack of Disney via sensationalism.

The girl who had to call her family - what if she had fallen behind pace earlier?

The family leaving late/flight thing - what if she was injured during the race or if again, she had fallen behind pace elsewhere?

The family inside MK - Did we forget to mention they were there free? That Disney brought in CMs and opened up stores and food places just for the event so people watching would have breakfast and things to do without charging them gate admission? Again, what if she fell behind pace earlier?

We're focusing on one gate, where we have a he said she said and lots of emotional statements, but no one saying "The gate closed at 8:34am, well before the cutoff."

When did it close? What time would the cutoff be for the 16minute mile pace?

This happened at 9am in the morning - no one was gonna die of heatstroke, the sun was barely up nevermind beating down. Waiting for a bus for 45 mins at WDW is normal - I wait that long to park hop during the off-peak sometimes.

Get me some facts and I'll understand better, but from where I stand it looks like a sensational interpetation of what happened with a bias to make Disney look bad.

[marktips]

Oh, one more thing - about getting delayed by an injury on the track and medics:

That's sportsmanship. We've seen tons of good athletes lose because someone else got injured or fell or made a mistake. You accept it - it's part of the sport.

You do not expect the official to make an exception for it.

[Mox]

I think your focus is all wrong. At some point during the race, the gate into MK was going to be closed and some participants were going to cutoff. There was no getting around that. The article concedes that the closure may have been technically correct. However, the main point of the article was that 200+ people who were expecting a Disney experience were treated in a less than Disney way. Those people aren't really that concerned what time the park was scheduled to be opened or whether or not the train was in the right place. They are concerned that the CMs at the MK gate were pretty rude, that they had to wait close to an hour without shade, water or restrooms for buses that never came, that they had to walk to the monorail station without any further instructions as to where they should go.

Disney blew it and they should at least own up to it.

[marktips]

I see...

Since its Disney that the marathon goes through in addition to having the parks around and the characters and DJ and such - it still has to go above and beyond all other marathon events and provide potties every few feet?

I think you had unreasonable expectations. This was a sporting event - not some guided leisurely stroll.

[marktips]

And what praytell did they blow?

This was, again, a sports competition. Not a carribbean cruise and not a spa day.

[Mox]

This happened at 9am in the morning - no one was gonna die of heatstroke, the sun was barely up nevermind beating down.

Were you there that morning? It was hot enough that they suggested people slow down their normal pace to avoid overheating.

Waiting for a bus for 45 mins at WDW is normal - I wait that long to park hop during the off-peak sometimes.

Waiting for a bus for 45 minutes after you've been running/walking for 10 miles is not normal. It took that long to get that one bus there (of about 5 that were needed) because the road was blocked off so that there was only one lane of automobile traffic. They were wholly unprepared to deal with sweeping runners at mile 10. If anything, they should have stopped all of those people at mile 9 (the TTC) since there were actually facilities there to deal with swept runners, especially in that quantity.

But I guess none of that matters since the train made it to Main Street on time.

[marktips]

A) I live in Florida. I know exactly what the weather was like. I know people who run marathons here and practice in the midday sun in June. I've been well schooled in heatstroke.

B) Didn't it start at 6am? You had atleast 45mins if not 1 hour left in the race itself.

And Ah-ha!

*did the math*

If MK gate is mile marker 10 then at a 160minutes after the last person crosses the start, accoridng to the article: 6:17. Two hours and 40 minutes later is 8:57am.

The racer got to MK gate "a few minutes before 9am." Well that would be under the pace of 16miles per hour if they left the start anytime before 6:17am and if they arrive any time after 8:57am.

Were you planning on using a prota-potty during the middle of the race? Were you expecting to stop at a coke machine? Also, you said the right facilities, water/potties, were at the TTC. That means you were not kept from water for hours, but rather less than an hour since you admit you went past the TTC. Disney can't be faulted because you chose not to take the water or facilities there.

At the TTC at 8:45 you were behind pace. If you ran-ran full out you could of caught up to pace probably. You can't blame surrporter for supporting you. They did not deceive you.

[Lani]

Additionally, I think including the "emotional details" was simply an attack of Disney via sensationalism.

marktips -- to me, the emotional details were the crux of the article. How can you say it's an attack, when Disney SELLS emotions? That IS what Disney markets. Believe in the magic! Make a wish! Make your dream come true!

The girl who had to call her family - what if she had fallen behind pace earlier?

If she had fallen behind and been swept the way she was supposed to, she would have been promptly taken to the finish line and probably gotten there before she was originally expected to finish.

The family leaving late/flight thing - what if she was injured during the race or if again, she had fallen behind pace elsewhere?

Are you equating Disney's actions with an injury? The point is not that they could have been delayed for other reasons. They were delayed specifically because of Disney's action (closing the gate), then INaction (failure to promptly sweep them on a bus to the finish area) that is at issue here.

The family inside MK - Did we forget to mention they were there free? That Disney brought in CMs and opened up stores and food places just for the event so people watching would have breakfast and things to do without charging them gate admission? Again, what if she fell behind pace earlier?

I agree that seeing your loved one go down Main Street before MK opens is a magical experience, and I think Disney does a great job of providing support and opening stores for the spectators. But I also know that they aren't doing so as a favor to participants; they ADVERTISE this, and they encourage participants to bring their family along so they can wait on Main Street. Participants pay for their enrollment; this isn't a charity.

We're focusing on one gate, where we have a he said she said and lots of emotional statements, but no one saying "The gate closed at 8:34am, well before the cutoff."

And that seems to be the primary problem. Had Disney notified the slower walkers/joggers that the gate would close at 8:34, that would have been far more helpful, instead of stringing people along and telling them they were on pace.

This happened at 9am in the morning - no one was gonna die of heatstroke, the sun was barely up nevermind beating down. Waiting for a bus for 45 mins at WDW is normal - I wait that long to park hop during the off-peak sometimes.

marktips, why don't you walk in their shoes before you make such assumptions? They already went 10 miles. A person who went 10 miles is not in the same condition as someone who just rolled out of bed.

Get me some facts and I'll understand better, but from where I stand it looks like a sensational interpetation of what happened with a bias to make Disney look bad.

marktips, I realize you are a Disney CM so it may be natural to feel defensive, but the crux of the matter is that this was an unprecedented occurrence that wreaked havoc on 200+ people who paid money to be there. I was very careful to get accurate quotes from people who were willing to be named (instead of shielding themselves in anonymity), and the event as it occurred is as close to the way I reported it as I could get.

[AVP]

Marktips, what I don't think you realize here is that we were not allowed to leave the area where we were stopped. It's not like we could have chosen to walk back to the TTC, or to the Contemporary, or somewhere else with shade, water and restrooms. We were prevented from leaving, by Disney CMs and the Sherriffs. There was a woman who was STAYING at the Contemporary, who was not allowed to walk to her hotel.

So, we couldn't leave, and Disney could not get anyone into us. Had there been a medical emergency at that point, a very likely situation given the lack of water, they would have had to bring paramedics THROUGH Magic Kingdom to reach us, because the surrounding roads were such a mess they couldn't even get the busses in to us.

Now, I'll say this again, because I'm sure you're going to jump all over me and I want to make sure I make this point clearly:

I knew perfectly well that Disney could have swept me at any point they chose because I did not meet the 16-minute pace.

DURING the race, I was told I was on pace. DURING the race, I was told I had to reach a certain point by a certain time to avoid being swept. I DID THAT. As I left mile 9, I was told I had made the cutoff.

Based on that, having passed all of the designated sweep points, I did not expect to be swept at mile 10. Doing the math afterwards, I completely understand that I was not, in fact, at or under pace at the time I reached mile 10, and that Disney had every right to stop me. There are other people to whom that does not apply, who were also stopped.

However, doing the math backwards, it also means that I did not reach mile 9 under pace, and I should have been stopped there. That we were allowed to pass the designated sweep point at mile 9, yet stopped at mile 10 without the knowledge of the race director, is the biggest concern I have about this event. Mile 10 was not a designated sweep point. Mile 10 was not adequately prepared with shelter, water, medical staff or transportation to serve as a sweep point. The other three designated sweep points had ALL of those things. Stopping 200+ people who just spent 3 hours walking / running in the Florida sun without shade, water or facilities, in a location that could not be quickly reached by medical personnel, was NOT SAFE.

Keeping those people there for 45+ minutes while they decided what to do with us was not Disney.

Requiring those people to eventually make their own way back to the finish line at the TTC was not Disney.

Not having any means to communicate to the staff at the finish line what had happened to the 200+ people caught up at mile 10 was not Disney.

AVP

[Ponine]

For those of you who were there...
I feel for you. I couldnt run a half marathon, I dont dare try.
Customer service should be good regardless of who is "running" the event.
I hope an apology is forthcoming.

[mystycalchyk]

Wow. Normally I wouldnt have read that. Simply because I'm not really a 'marathon' kind of chick, but egads that sounds horrible. I certainly feel for the poor people who couldn't finish. Not to mention the way they were treated afterwards..shuffling around all over the place.

Wow. I really hope WDW does the right thing here and admits its foul up and tries to somehow do something to apologise to these people.

The one comment that seemed so rude to me was where the one man was told they needed to make way for 'the paying customers'. Goodness.


Great article BTW, now I know to read more of these things.