POTC Inconsistency?

[Moonliner]

Hello:

Having just returned from a trip to DL and of course a few rides on POTC, I decided to watch the movie one more time. My 11 Year old raised an interesting point.

Towards the end (stop here if you have yet to see the movie)...


Barbosa and Jack are fighting their epic dual and Jack now has the curse on him. Just PRIOR to the curse being lifted Jack shoots Barbosa through the chest. The curse is then lifted and Barbosa bleeds to death on the spot. However just MOMENTS before that, Jack had been stabbed through the chest. Both Barbosa and Jack were in human (ie non-skeleton) form at the time they were stabbed/shot. Sounds like a problem to me.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I thought that Jack was stabbed, THEN the curse was broken, then Barbosa was shot and thusly killed. I'll have to go back and watch, though.

[3894]

No because just before shooting Barbosa, Jack throws the coin back onto the pile, breaking the curse. Any wound prior to that (i.e., the stab wound) doesn't count because it falls under juridiction of the curse.

[Moonliner]

No because just before shooting Barbosa, Jack throws the coin back onto the pile, breaking the curse. Any wound prior to that (i.e., the stab wound) doesn't count because it falls under juridiction of the curse.

No, having JUST watched it, it goes dow like this:

Jack cuts self, tosses coin. This does NOT break the curse becuase Old Bootstraps blood/coin is not yet added to the pile.

Jack shoots Barbosa, Barbosa quips "Pitty you waisted your shot"

Will cut's his hand, drops in the LAST piece, the curse is lifted.

Barbosa dies.

Ps. Now that you bring it up, under the curse we see the crew can't die. Stab them, cut them, it has no effect. No Blood comes out. So where did Jack (and for that matter the rest of the crew) get his blood from?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

You're right about this problem, Moonliner. I think this was where we talked about that.
http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=18207

I believe they should have had all the coins and blood in the chest before Jack shoots him. Otherwise, they leave open this idea of "how long does a skeleton wound last". It kinda sucks. I think it could have been done just fine with them getting the coins in and Jack immediately opening fire on Barbossa.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Jack's stab wound happened well before the gunshot. The only explanation is that there is some ammount of time it takes for a cursed wound to heal. Jack had enough time, Barbosa didn't.

Ps. Now that you bring it up, under the curse we see the crew can't die. Stab them, cut them, it has no effect. No Blood comes out. So where did Jack (and for that matter the rest of the crew) get his blood from?

Barbosa bled when Elizabeth stabbed him with her dinner knife. I believe when they are in flesh form, they bleed. Of course, Barbosa didn't bleed when first shot, only after the curse was lifed. Oh well.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I thought they could bleed (but not die) when not in the moonlight.

Also, I always thought that the shot of Will dropping the coin in was sort of a mini-flashback. That Will and Jack had nearly simulataneously put the coins in. Again, I'll look at it tonight, but I really thought that there was no gaffe.

[Bill Catherall]

Will and Jack had both bled on their coins before the shot. However, Barbosa was shot before the coins were returned to the chest. So the question is, do the coins actually have to be returned to the chest before the curse is lifted, or is just bleeding on them sufficient to end the curse? Maybe there's something we just don't know or aren't told about the curse. The curse is explained to us by Barbosa, maybe he doesn't fully understand it either.

It really doesn't matter either way to me. It was done that way for dramatic effect. Barbosa is shot, he says Jack wasted his bullet, Will returns the coins, Barbosa bleeds and dies...surprise! After all, we are talking about Captain Jack Sparrow you know.

[Alex S.]

Perhaps he didn't die because he had a wound, but because he still had a bullet in his heart and otherwise some bleeding wouldn't have killed him?

And it was shown that while the cursed will recover, they can be momentarily wounded (Jack knocks one of them unconcious when they first attack and kidnap Kiera.) So there is some brief moment of wounding before a quick healing.

[innerSpaceman]

May it's <gasp> a continuity error? Now, that's never happened in a major motion picture!

Or, worse yet, maybe it was a climactic scene edited sloppily by a director who didn't give a damn about anything but dramatic effect, even if it was plainly and obviously "wrong." After all, a mere moment after the continuity problem under discussion, Barbossa drops an apple from his hand that he had not been holding during the immediately preceding 15 minutes of swordfighting.

[Moonliner]

Barbossa drops an apple from his hand that he had not been holding during the immediately preceding 15 minutes of swordfighting.

What ya never heard of a pocket?

After all that apple was his "precious". In fact if I'd been the director I'd have had him take a bite from the apple and die with a smile on his face. Now that would have been dramatic.

[Alex S.]

May it's <gasp> a continuity error? Now, that's never happened in a major motion picture!

Maybe (and in this case, probably). But then perhaps not; people are often very eager to point out continuity or logical errors and are frequently wrong. A great number of people thought they found laughers in the sequence of events by which they became uncursed at the end (it makes sense) or in the impossibility of Depp sliding down that rope while chained (not only was it easily possible, it was clearly demonstrated).

But half the fun of good movies is finding consistent ways to explain away the directing and editing errors of the makers. Bad movies don't warrant such consideration (and they're always considered errors of vile stupidity, rather than known continuity errors created by editing decisions -- probably the reason for him holding the apple was filmed, but had to be cut for some reason).

You (apparently) didn't like the movie, so it seems a waste of time to try play that game.

[Moonliner]

But half the fun of good movies is finding consistent ways to explain away the directing and editing errors of the makers .

OK, I can play that game.

After Jack is stabbed he turns to a skeleton and back again. Barbosa does not get that chance. Perhaps there is something in the transformation that helps heal the damage. Works with warewolves...

[Ghoulish Delight]

What ya never heard of a pocket?

After all that apple was his "precious". In fact if I'd been the director I'd have had him take a bite from the apple and die with a smile on his face. Now that would have been dramatic.

Except that you see his hand the whole battle, he never reaches for his pocket, and it immediately rolls out of his hand. This one bugs me because a simple second of him pulling it from his pocket would fix it.

[innerSpaceman]

You (apparently) didn't like the movie, so it seems a waste of time to try play that game.

And that assumption would be incorrect. I love Pirates of the Carribean. That does not mean that I am willing to turn cartwheels to explain away the obvious mistakes made by a filmmaker - - mistakes, I might add, that are more likely to be found in a movie one loves, as such a movie is more likely to be seen multiple times.

I will admit, however, that the "game" can be a fun one. But just because one chooses to play along should not mean that one cannot admit that filmmakers make mistakes or allow inconsistencies for the sake of what they perceive to be enhanced dramatic effect.

[Alex S.]

Ok, fair enough. The vigor with which you attributed the probable mistake to a director "who didn't give a damn about anything but dramatic effect," lead me to assume you held that view of the entire movie, not just one scene.

Sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion. And of course it doesn't mean that playing along means you can't admit it was probably just a mistake (known or otherwise).

[innerSpaceman]

Hopefully, the filmmakers will make a contrived explanation into official canon by putting such an explanation in the sequel. Convoluted rules of the pirate zombie Aztec gold blood curse are fascinating, and need only be once uttered or clearly demonstrated in the sequel to become "real."