Feeling Priced Out?

[adriennek]

We've had premium APs to Disneyland since 1995. We never questioned which AP we'd get, actually. Premium was the only choice. Over the years, as renewal time draws near, we usually end up looking at our budget thinking: Ok, how are we going to do this this year?

Now we get to look forward to buying an AP for our son this time! And the big question: which AP do we get for him (since AP's are apparently one-size-fits-all--no discount for kids!)

Comparing the prices of APs with other family oriented theme parks (Legoland-- Premium AP is just over $100 for adults, less for kids, plus you get a free one day pass for a guest...) then looking at this $100 increase Disneyland wants to add to the cost of our APs for a park that our son can't really appreciate-- I'm starting to feel priced out of the Disney demographic.

Just now on an entertainment forum thread, JeffG posted that the El Capitan theater is effectively raising the cost of attending a movie there by expanding the "VIP" section where tickets cost $9 to $13 MORE than general admission seats!

Now, we maintain a pretty decent lifestyle. My husband has a PhD in Chemistry and works for a pharmaceutical company. We live in a more moderately priced Southern California community (lower cost than most of Orange or LA counties anyway,) so I can stay at home with the kids... So we have a decent income, but not a huge income. We have to budget ourselves. But I'm seriously starting to feel budgeted out of the Disney target demographic. Am I the only one?

We really love Disney, but I'm just not willing to go into credit card debt for it! Is Disney's greed getting to the point that they're out of touch with the "real" world? Does Disney want to target families or not? Or are they just forgetting how to? Perhaps Michael, Paul, et al are so comfortable with their salaries that they've forgotten that not everyone has as much disposible income as they do?

Thoughts?

Adrienne K

[Dlandmom]

I know what you mean, Adrienne! My daughter's only 17 months right now, so I've still got a year and a half to think about it! Who knows what the cost will be then?! She really seems to enjoy it, but if she were 3 right now, I don't know that I'd be willing or able to buy a pass for her!

I'm currently the only one in the family with a pass, and it's a premium one. I elected not to add DCA for exactly the same reason as you...what in the world can a young child do that's worth $100 a year? Even my husband doesn't have a pass...he does get the Southern California one on occasion, though.

I hate it say it, but even though Disney keeps raising prices, people keep going! The crowds don't seem to go down, and the food prices keep going up. It really is a "phenomenon" that can't be explained.

[lisap]

VERY true
I am in the same boat with you. Single income, doing ok but still need to budget.
We just got our renewal forms in the mail a few weeks ago. Even though we only get the Southern CA passes, times that by four and it can really hurt!

We really had to think about our priorities for entertainment in the coming year--because we can't afford Lego, Seaworld and Disneyland. We still decided on Disney, but it makes me crazy that they get a huge chunk of our money, then while we are in the park we spend again on concessions and toys, etc.
They could at least give parents a break off kid's passes! Parents spend the most money once in the park anyway.

I know I should feel very thankful that our family can even afford ONE season pass--there are many many families that cannot. I AM, but I still feel like whining once in a while

[adriennek]

Originally posted by lisap

I know I should feel very thankful that our family can even afford ONE season pass--there are many many families that cannot. I AM, but I still feel like whining once in a while

Me, too!

Adrienne K
I hate me too posts, but sometimes it just has to be said....

[Lani]

You know, it's bad enough Disney thinks your 11-year-old is an "adult" (for ticketing purposes), but to charge the same adult AP price for a 3-year-old is ridiculous. Obviously that 3-year-old is never going to visit the park alone... At the very least, why not have a discounted AP rate up until the age of 10, to jive with the regular admission media? Ok, I'll even be more specific. How about a "not by myself" AP for minors that prohibit them from entering the park without a parent or legal guardian who is also an AP holder?

[Luna]

Not to get off topic, but I would LOVE to see a "not
by myself" pass for kids. I can't tell you how many
annoying kids I've seen. Just a week ago a group
of 8 13 year olds were behind me in line at Grizzly
River Run. They were so loud. Even my 11 year old daughter was annoyed.

As for the 2 park annual passes, Disneyworld has
kids annual passes, I don't know why we don't at
Disneyland. It wouldn't effect me since my daughter
is considered an adult for all ticket media, but I would
love to see equal pass options with Disneyworld.

[TinkR]

Definitely agree with all of you!!

I still can't understand why you can discounts for children when purchasing a single or multi day pass, but get no break for the premium passes. We just upgraded our passes to include DCA. I was misinformed about how the upgrade would be done and instead of them upgrading my current pass (purchased 10/10/00) to include DCA for the remainder of my year, they credited my account and gave me a whole new year with both parks. Don't get me wrong, we'll definitely use the pass for another year and I'll love having the excuse to visit more often ... BUT ... when you go in thinking you'll be paying $200 and instead walk out paying $850 ... well OUCH! Thank goodness Uncle Sam was generous in his refund this year.

While I'm griping, not that it applies to me anymore, but I think it's horrible that Disney doesn't allow a discount for women who are pregnant. A pregnant women can't go on more than half the rides, but gets no price breaks. That really stinks. I asked when I was pregnant and was told 'there were no discounts at this time'. I think a lot of the other parks offer discounts. Some 'family' park. Okay, enough grumping for now.

TinkR

[rob]

Well, I definately agree. We chose not to include DCA in our renewal and Lee and the boys have Deluxe rather than Premium passes. We only need the one discount and Parking, so the blackout days are the only difference.

I have to say, Sea World and San Diego Zoo give you a better deal on the annual passes. If either were close to Disney in terms of entertainment, I would pick them over Disneyland. But Disneyland is still (marginally) worth the money.

[cstephens]

Lisap wrote:
> They could at least give parents a break off kid's passes! Parents spend the most money once in the park anyway.

I agree that if there's a kids' price structure for regular tickets, they should have one for APs as well, but I dispute that parents spend the most money in the park. One does not have to be a parent to spend considerable money at DL or DCA.


TinkR wrote:
> While I'm griping, not that it applies to me anymore, but I think it's horrible that Disney doesn't allow a discount for women who are pregnant. A pregnant women can't go on more than half the rides, but gets no price breaks. That really stinks.

I understand the frustration, but then how do you apply that same logic to other groups of people who can't ride that many of the rides? Say someone has another kind of condition that doesn't allow them to go on fast rides or dark rides or rides that make them slightly dizzy. By the same logic, shouldn't they get a discount too? But how would they go about proving it? It's just too difficult to work out. Most of the non-AP holding women I know have just not gone to the park when they were pregnant because they knew they wouldn't be able to ride much. I know that doesn't work for everyone though.


Rob wrote:
>I have to say, Sea World and San Diego Zoo give you a better deal on the annual passes. If either were close to Disney in terms of entertainment, I would pick them over Disneyland.

I've had an AP for Sea World for longer than I've had an AP to DL (1993 vs. 1997), even though DL is a half an hour drive and Sea World is a 2 hour drive for me. If I were equidistant to both, Sea World would definitely win out, but then, I'm partial to sea mammals.




/cs

"Come What May" - Moulin Rouge

[lisap]

cstephens wrote--
"One does not have to be a parent to spend considerable money at DL or DCA."

Very true, but consider that a parent is spending for him/herself plus one, two three or (God forbid) more very persistent little persons. I would guess that would push the daily spending totals up a bit--but I've been wrong before

I would be VERY interesting in any numbers Disney has on this (and I'm sure they do.)

[adriennek]

Originally posted by lisap
cstephens wrote--
"One does not have to be a parent to spend considerable money at DL or DCA."

Very true, but consider that a parent is spending for him/herself plus one, two three or (God forbid) more very persistent little persons. I would guess that would push the daily spending totals up a bit--but I've been wrong before

I would be VERY interesting in any numbers Disney has on this (and I'm sure they do.)

I don't know that one group automatically spends more than the other, I think they spend differently.

I've been in both situations: I've had an AP with no kids and I now have an AP with two. My spending habits are definately different now. Then, I would make a lot of purchases without even blinking an eye. We were a two income household. When we saw merchandise we liked, we'd buy it.

Today I'm much more budget-minded. I think I spend less in one visit than the typical guest because if I don't buy something on one visit, I can think about it and come back to buy it later. Maybe it's because my son is only 2 1/2, too, but I don't have the whole persistent little person thing to deal with-- yet. And even then, I have enough opinions about merchandising at Disneyland that I don't care HOW much my son wants that glow sword, I won't be buying it there

So on the one hand, yes, I may have more people in my family to spend money on, but on the other hand, I'm more frugal now than I was before I had kids. Also, I know lots of people who don't have children, and frankly, I see them buying lots of merchandise for their personal collections that I would not spend money on. So not having children does not mean that there's less to buy, that's for sure!

OH-- and one final point before I go. My sons are EXTREMELY lucky. You know that whole "It takes a village to raise a child" concept? They have quite the little village going on. So while I don't always spend lots of money on my own kids, I know a few people who don't have kids who have made quite a few purchases for MY sons at Disneyland! This may be unique to me, but there are lots of people who don't have kids but still buy that kid stuff.

One AP I know (and keep in mind, AP can mean more than just Annual Passholder, but I won't mention any names....) once bought my son an Engin-ear Mickey Plush because he picked it up. Mommy and Daddy would've said, "Say good bye to Mickey" and wrestled it out of his hands......

Adrienne K (AK )

[lisap]

All true, but I have just one more thing to add--
Dinner (or lunch) at the park for four. CHA CHING!!
We usually pack one meal and eat one there. Those meals add up like crazy! Plus any snacks or treats......that's were the money goes.

[MagicBeliever]

I just wanted to say that you guys should count your blessings. I know the APs are expensive, but no one forced you to buy them. You COULD visit Disneyland once a year (gasp!), and you COULD cancel your AP's. If you don't want to pay, don't go. Prices go up, we complain and get on with life.

There are those of us who have to save for years before we can even take ONE trip to the park! Before you complain about your 3 year olds not having an annual pass, remember those of us who never saw Disneyland before the age of 10, 15, or 22.



Enjoy it now before you have to take out a loan to visit Disney!

[Lani]

Originally posted by MagicBeliever
I just wanted to say that you guys should count your blessings. I know the APs are expensive, but no one forced you to buy them.

That's quite true, MagicBeliever. I think we all need to remember that we have differing priorities. For example, between me and Alex, we spent $600 on two Premium APs this year. That's a lot of money, yes. However we prioritize the luxuries of our lives. We only have one car (a 1993 Ford Festiva) that's paid for because I don't want to be strapped with five years worth of monthly car payments. We also don't subscribe to (or watch) TV, so that's a savings of another $300 to $500 a year. By juggling our lives and budgeting ourselves, we can afford to pay for the APs because it's something we feel is important in our lives right now.

This may very well change, but I think a lot of the argument raised in this thread has to do with the fact that families are feeling squeezed out from being able to CHOOSE to be able to afford the APs.

I for one think it's really terrible that Disney doesn't offer a separate AP price for children. They do for the regular admission media, so it doesn't really make sense. I'm even willing to live with the concept of a restricted children's pass that requires the child to have to enter with an adult AP holder.

[lisap]

Magic Believer says.....
"There are those of us who have to save for years before we can even take ONE trip to the park! Before you complain about your 3 year olds not having an annual pass, remember those of us who never saw Disneyland before the age of 10, 15, or 22."
********************************************
I don't think we are complaining about our three year olds not being able to visit the park all the time (at least I'm not.) I think it's more the idea that some families choose the APs to be their families luxury item that they can enjoy doing together.
We don't do ATVs, camping, skiing, kayaking, etc. but this is one activity that we all enjoy as a family, and since the park is only a short ways from us, that is what we like to do.

If we were out of state, there would be no way we could ever afford even annual trips to the park, so believe me, we are thankful.

[MagicBeliever]

Don't worry, I understand what you mean by priorities.. if I lived in California, I'd probably have an AP too.
I agree that full price for small children is pretty difficult to swallow. I hope they will give some more consideration to that at some point.

Just wanted to remind you that Disneyland is a magical vacation getaway for lots of us, rather than a monthly or weekly park excursion. I'm just glad I got to enjoy it a few times when I was a little girl.

If I was you, I'd pay what Disneyland is asking for those APs until the cows come home (which, here in Nevada, could be substantially soon).

Enjoy residing close enough to best park in the world that you can enjoy it so often!

[rob]

As an example of the pricing Adrienne was talking about. I got a coupon for Knott's that had three different prices, One for adults, one for children under 12 and the last based on height. Now obviously someone was thinking of parents with very young children who can't ride everything. Knott's has been passing Disney up in Public Relations in just about every way. I still prefer Disneyland, but if the trends continue Knott's might just win in the long run.

[lisap]

Rob,
That is such a brilliant idea by Knotts! They are really tuned in to what families need. Sadly, I don't think Knotts will win even in the long run because of the death-grip Disney has on the children's movie-video market. Children will always want to go to DL to visit characters and places they have seen on the screen, in books and on TV.

Magic Believer--I feel your pain Southern Ca. has room for maybe one more family--so come on over! (just bring your candles and gas grills )

[cstephens]

Originally posted by rob
As an example of the pricing Adrienne was talking about. I got a coupon for Knott's that had three different prices, One for adults, one for children under 12 and the last based on height. Now obviously someone was thinking of parents with very young children who can't ride everything. Knott's has been passing Disney up in Public Relations in just about every way. I still prefer Disneyland, but if the trends continue Knott's might just win in the long run.

But this may be a function of necessity on Knott's part. I know nothing about comparative attendance, but DL doesn't seem to need to do anything to bring in more attendance, so there really is no incentive for them to implement that sort of program. If they were having enough attendance problems, then DL might feel the need to do something like that to boost attendance, but as long as their attendance numbers are to their liking, there's really nothing to make them offer that kind of discount.

[adriennek]

Originally posted by cstephens


But this may be a function of necessity on Knott's part. I know nothing about comparative attendance, but DL doesn't seem to need to do anything to bring in more attendance, so there really is no incentive for them to implement that sort of program. If they were having enough attendance problems, then DL might feel the need to do something like that to boost attendance, but as long as their attendance numbers are to their liking, there's really nothing to make them offer that kind of discount.

DL doesn't need it but DCA certainly does. DCA figures are obviously not to Disney's liking.

Frankly, I think this would be a great way for Disney to get more kids into DCA. Obviously Disney thinks DCA is a place for kids or else they think they need to market to children. I seriously doubt that anyone can look at the current marketing for DCA and disagree with that!

Now, on a totally separate issue, I don't think that DCA should be marketing to kids at all, but if they were going to, this system sounds a lot more logical to me. Kids who can't do as much get a lower priced ticket. If nothing else, I'm sure it would increase guest satisfaction levels because it would give them more realistic expectations of what they'll find at DCA.

Adrienne K

[rob]

You know, Disneyland was built for the kid in every adult. I get the feeling DCA was built for the adult in every kid. That is why attendance is so low.