Lazy Attraction CMs

[Loric]

I read this on the MP mainpage:

Some ride operators are grumbling after being instructed that they are now responsible for cleaning up the entrance and queue of their attractions themselves. Attractions managers want them to keep a dustpan and broom nearby. A few ride operators have questioned whether this is crossing union lines into Custodials territory. (Personally, I remember the days when all employees, no matter the department or rank, reflexively picked up any trash they came upon.)

OH! Angry! Argh!!!

That aside.. During my time as a WDW Attractions host, it was ALWAYS the responsability of the CMs to keep their areas clean. Every positions has a broom and dustpan - you only call custodial for major spills (protien, gum, or otherwise).

To hear of the CMs saying this is asking them too much shows a level of arrogance I cannot beleive. Every CM, from all areas, on their first day in the park at WDW is taught "see trash, pick it up."

There are cabinets/areas at every attraction at WDW which are designed specificly to hide the broom and dust pan - which are to be used the by the attractions hosts. Its part of training! Part of the checkout states "Does the CM maintain and tidy up the area appropriately?"

For example, when I was at Energy, there is a tiny-tiny period of time between when the main show starts and the CM returns to front doors to let the next pre-show enter. That time is used by the CMs make a mad-dash thrugh the pre-show, grabbing any major garbage like bottles of water and popcorn boxes left lying around, and then if there is time, so use a little floor sweeper to go over the carpetted floor to clean up popcorn spills and other such junk that guests leave behind. Oh yeah, i also occasionally sprayed the room with "Fall Harvest" scented air freshener if BO or turkey legs were starting to foul the air. (All provided by and property of the Attractions CMs Department)

It wasn't just in the building. Greeter CMs also cleaned and scrubbed and kept the entire area around their attraction tidy. Every position has a broom and dust pan and has had them for as long as anyone remembers. The dust pan is there because guests do spill things in the queue and it can't be left there. It was never (during my time) custodial's responsability.

You call Custodial if it is a major problem you're not eqipped to deal with - pretty much anything requiring solvent or paper towels, or to have the trashcans unloaded.

It's just.. ugh.. Are you kidding? "I have to use a pan and broom? That's nuts! It's someone elses job!"

ARGH!!! That was half of my job as an Attractions Host (Maintain the show) - no wonder DL Resort is a mess.

[innerSpaceman]

As I read the O.P., it stated that the hosts were to clean the entry and queue of their attractions. This may be where the grumbling is coming in. As far as I know (and I am not, and have never been, a CM), cleaning the queue has never been an attraction host's responsibility. It has never been anyone's responsibility! No one ever seems to go through the queues and clean up the areas where, I would wager, guests make the most mess.

Disneyland queues look like Magic Mountain queues. They are disgusting! Trash everywhere. I don't care who cleans these up - but just because guests are lined up in them all day long, that is no reason to ignore them. In fact, it's just the opposite. I know that these areas are hard to get to, cause guests are there at all times, but that is no excuse for the little bit of Six Flags the guests must experience in every queue.

I don't care if it's the attraction hosts or custodial, but get someone in there to walk the queue every so often, moving in lock-step with the guests if necessary, to clean those areas up. There's no reason guests should have to step outside the clean realm of Disneyland when in its attraction queues.

[Loric]

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
As I read the O.P., it stated that the hosts were to clean the entry and queue of their attractions. This may be where the grumbling is coming in. As far as I know (and I am not, and have never been, a CM), cleaning the queue has never been an attraction host's responsibility. It has never been anyone's responsibility! No one ever seems to go through the queues and clean up the areas where, I would wager, guests make the most mess.

The queue is/was the responsability of Attractions Hosts at WDW with occasional walk-throughs by Custodial too.

Hosts are responsible for maintaining the queue. They have to monitor the queue, adjust it accordingly (open sections, close sections, re-route guests, hard queue vs. soft queue), clean, and post the estimated wait time. This is all the responsability of the Greeter.

Has DL changed to the CDS (Cast Deployment System) yet? This also puts other CMs to work who would otherwise be "out of rotation" and not doing anything specific. At WDW, when a CM is not in rotation but not on a break (as CDS allows but the "bump rotation" system makes no allowance for) the CM is assigned a "task" which usually involves cleaning or sweeping. (If not that, then being told "Do something special for a guest")

Funny, a computer has to tell CMs to do these things, but it works.

[sediment]

I didn't know so many people chewed gum. There are certain posts along Indy entrance that were just covered in it last time I went. Reminded me of SFMM.

[Morrigoon]

That's not true. Custodial DOES do the queues. There is even a specific custodial shift assigned to Indy alone, I've spoken to the guy doing it once and that shift just continually cleans the Indy queue, walking the whole thing with a sweeper, and emptying all the cans along the route as well. That's ALL that shift does all day.

I do miss the days of CMs feeling obligated to throw out large pieces of trash they come across. Nowadays CMs might, if you're lucky, try to kick it out of the walkway. Shameful. But I don't blame them per se... it's the lack of true Disney training. They just can't properly teach CMs how to be Disney in so short a time.

[Locke Aidan]

I'm actually a little surprised by the reactions of the CMs posted in the update. As an attractions CM, I don't think I could name ANY CM that I work with who would feel angered if asked to sweep the queue. In fact, there are many who have asked if they could sweep the queue, but were denied the task due to fears that the custodial department would be angered because we "crossed union lines," or something to that effect.

I'd like to know where these "grumbling" CMs were found, because they're not on my attraction. In fact, most are probably pleased that we're allowed to actually maintain our own queue now.

As for the "see trash, pick it up" thing, there are many of us who still do. And yes, CDS has been in place at the DLR for a while now. I've never seen a task that says anything along the lines of "clean the entire queue," probably due to the aforementioned fear of crossing union lines.

[Morrigoon]

Oh, I've worked with a few. You'd be surprised how lazy some of the CMs can be. There are two types of CM: those who work there because we love DL and believe in what being a CM represents, and those who work there because only because it's a job. The "it's just another job" people are more likely to object than the people who do it out of love for the role. Let's face it, Disney pays so little that either you do it because you love it, or because you couldn't get something that paid better.

If all your coworkers are in the love it department, lucky you.

[Locke Aidan]

There are definitely some who aren't. However, in my experience most still seem to care about things looking nice. But like you said, this sadly is not all of them.

[Kevy Baby]

I was and wasn't surprised by the comment. Given the number of CMs, there are going to be a few complainers (given the number of AP's, there are going to be a few [explicative deleted]).

I am not (nor ever have been) a CM (although I have often secrectly dreamed of it). However, as a guest of the resort (and an AP), I sometimes do pick up trash myself. And I have been known to politely chatise people who litter (usually I will pick the item up, hand it to the offender and say very politely,"I didn't if you dropped this; I'm sure you wouldn't want to litter.")

TTFN

[innerSpaceman]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
Custodial DOES do the queues. There is even a specific custodial shift assigned to Indy alone, I've spoken to the guy doing it once and that shift just continually cleans the Indy queue, walking the whole thing with a sweeper, and emptying all the cans along the route as well. That's ALL that shift does all day.

That's good to know. They could use a few more trips through the queue, especially on Indy.

[DCAWhites]

As a Custodial Guest Services Host at Disney's California Adventure, I have quite a bit to say about the topic.

First of all, the "you actually expect me to pick up trash! Thats someone else's job!" attitude isn't very widespread. Very few cast members in Atttractions that I have encountered have this attitude. Many of them are more than willing to dispose of whatever they can without interfereing with their official job duties. I have met a cast member at soarin' who actually had the nerve to tell me that he never picks up any bit of trash in the loading areas right as I was about to go sweep up the big mess in one of the theaters (custodial isn't supposed to go into those theaters unless there is a specific problem or it gets really bad-like how I encountered it). I rolled my eyes at the employee (he doesn't deserve to be called a cast member if he isn't contributing to the show whatsoever, not to mention that bottles are a safety hazard in dark rooms like soarin's loading area). Then I went to another cast member to alert him that I was going to sweep the theater and to not lock me in there. As I enter the theater loading area, I find him sweeping up with me, without anyone asking him too (there are lots of dustpans in the 2 custodial closets in soarin'). How nice of him, too bad we can't write "you swept me off my feet" compliments for other department cast members.

However, I do wish that the making disney magic orientation focused a bit more on the fact that trash IS most distraction to the show the imagineers developed, and that no matter who you are, if you see a peice of trash that can safely be picked up with bare hands (a map or a bottle for example), it IS a good thing you can do to contribute to the show by throwing it away.

However, I wouldn't EVER want attractions cast members or store cast members to get too involved in cleaning up their entire work locations. Remember, disney is highly unionized, and the unions don't like job positions being rendered obsolete. For example, if queue line sweeping was cut out from custodial and handed to attractions, that would be about 11 shifts erased from custodial each day in the summer and I wouldn't like that to happen. Plus, queue lines bring more guest interaction than imaginable for us, being SOOO close to the guests who pack into the wide queues at DCA like sardines.

To sum it up, I'd like to see attractions pick up large peices of debris that look bad or are unsafe, STOP CALLING IN CODE Vs (vomit) THAT DON'T EXIST (screamin' cast members- do it a few more times and I'll make you eat it....its really frustrating when you are pressed for time and then you waste 20 minutes getting supplies and going somewhere where there is nothing and then taking it all back), but not sweep queue lines between people or have actual rotation positions for trash cleanup.

[Whitewing]

The new VP Greg E. asked at recent meeting of managers, "Who here picks up trash?" He repeated the question again, only to see the Custodial managers raising their hands.

He said sternly that he wasn't asking to see who was in Custodial. He we asking which managers follow tradition by picking up stray cups and such that are relatively easy to pick up as they go along their way. He then admonished them that if he ever sees them walk by litter it would have been easy for them to pick up, he'll be having a talk with them.

This is at least third-hand, so take that for what it is worth.

Whitewing

[DCAWhites]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
That's not true. Custodial DOES do the queues. There is even a specific custodial shift assigned to Indy alone, I've spoken to the guy doing it once and that shift just continually cleans the Indy queue, walking the whole thing with a sweeper, and emptying all the cans along the route as well. That's ALL that shift does all day.

Yeah it is a shift, usually taken by high seniority custodial cast members (you don't need really high seniority to clean the club 33 restrooms though ). In addition to the queue line and its trash cans, they also clean the quasi guest/cast member restroom (which means they get $.75 extra per hour even though they only clean that small restroom maybe 4 times per shift), and have a radio to be able to quickly respond to hydraulic fluid spills on the track with their lead, a stage manager and possibly mainatance (these fluid spills cause the ride to go 101 untll its cleaned up). This could happen a few times during the day, especially when the attraction was new and the spills were HUMONGOUS (I have heard horror/hilarious stories from some of our leads at dca).

[Austrinken]

Hey guys,

I am an Attractions CM at the DLR. I can tell you for a fact that last year, I was penalized for crossing union lines for (1) sweeping up the queue for my attraction and (2) cleaning a Coke spill out of a ride vehicle. I'm not sure if it was just the lead who was working that day, or someone from Custodial who found out and got mad, or maybe a combination of both, but it was definitely brought to my attention that I had acted wrongly. I specifically recall my lead saying "Don't do it again," and the incident was placed in my record.

Now, before you hit me with a deluge of replies with your opinion on the matter, please keep in mind that I am just reporting to you something that happened. I am not taking anyone's side here...this is just to illustrate the point that union lines do exist, and they have been and can be enforced.

Again...I'm not taking anyone's side here, so please don't shoot the messenger.

[Morrigoon]

DCAwhites: the only issue I have is that the Indy queue custodial CM can't be reached well by radio. We had a code V over the summer just before the temple entrance for an hour before, finally, I personally found the CM and told them about it. Custodial radioed several times (they claim) but it seems there must not be much follow up to make sure they're heard (requesting a response would be a good idea!). That vomit was a)slippery, and b) began to stink horribly in the summer heat. That said, however, knowing there was an exclusive CM means that they're eaiser to locate in the future. Of course, I don't work there any more, but hey, whatever.

[ToursbabeC3po]

At star Tours We sweep at the load dock several times a day. No one has a problem with it. Once again please do not compare WDW with Disneyland they are not the same at all when it comes to the union. There are certain things we are NOT ABLE TO DO because we are crossing union lines and we are told that in our training. We are told to pick up big trash in the que areas but not to sweep because that would cut out custodial shifts and that is someone's job and they want to keep it.

[Loric]

Originally posted by ToursbabeC3po
At star Tours We sweep at the load dock several times a day. No one has a problem with it. Once again please do not compare WDW with Disneyland they are not the same at all when it comes to the union. There are certain things we are NOT ABLE TO DO because we are crossing union lines and we are told that in our training. We are told to pick up big trash in the que areas but not to sweep because that would cut out custodial shifts and that is someone's job and they want to keep it.

Maybe they should do their jobs then because from what I hear the place is dirty in comparison to WDW.

[Photographer]

As an overall not so much fun experience with amusement park employees, my least fond memories are of Islands of Adventure in FL only to be topped by 6 Flags at Darien Lake in NY.

I guess no one wanted to be at either park. Very little if any smiling faces and definately no magic.

I'm so smart I put this in the wrong thread.

[SweetAurora]

Originally posted by Austrinken
Hey guys,

I am an Attractions CM at the DLR. I can tell you for a fact that last year, I was penalized for crossing union lines for (1) sweeping up the queue for my attraction and (2) cleaning a Coke spill out of a ride vehicle. I'm not sure if it was just the lead who was working that day, or someone from Custodial who found out and got mad, or maybe a combination of both, but it was definitely brought to my attention that I had acted wrongly. I specifically recall my lead saying "Don't do it again," and the incident was placed in my record.

Wow...that's amazing. I mean, rules are rules, I guess, but I wish everyone would just work together to do things right. Pitching in is a good thing. I haven't been to work since last week, so I'll have to find out more about these new "cleaning" rules...On several occasions (usually late at night when we don't have too many guests), I know myself and other cast members would clean up spills and such (oh yes, and bird poo) on our vehicles, and I never knew it was wrong because it crossed union lines!

That's my shocker of the day. Oh and for the record--I'm one of those who LOVES working at Disneyland (amidst dealing with the drama of those who don't...rrr) and feel it is my duty to Walt to make his land look nice.

[marron-cream]

Originally posted by Loric
Maybe they should do their jobs then because from what I hear the place is dirty in comparison to WDW.

Ugh, we already know you think WDW is God's gift to theme parks. Maybe you ought to come see for yourself, or better yet, try working here before you start tossing out the disparaging remarks. Being at DL on a near daily basis, I'd say it's not bad for a place that runs on bare minimum labor. The already understaffed, overstretched custodial staff does all it can. Maybe instead of blaming lazy attractions CMs or lazy custodial CMs, blame the moronic higher ups who cut all the hours to begin with.

[Loric]

Originally posted by marron-cream
Ugh, we already know you think WDW is God's gift to theme parks. Maybe you ought to come see for yourself, or better yet, try working here before you start tossing out the disparaging remarks. Being at DL on a near daily basis, I'd say it's not bad for a place that runs on bare minimum labor. The already understaffed, overstretched custodial staff does all it can. Maybe instead of blaming lazy attractions CMs or lazy custodial CMs, blame the moronic higher ups who cut all the hours to begin with.

Well, the place operates without a fan-base threatening to turn in their APs.

Ever think that maybe the CMs in general do need an attitude shift? You can't blame management forever - they're certainly not in the right, but there comes a point when the CMs themselves have stopped trying, and I think it's reached that point.

Everything is a system, there is no scapegoat - if it's not working, don't blame other people. Guests are complaining that the queues are really dirty. Custodial's job is to clean the queues.

WDW's guests don't complain their queues are dirty (someone now coming in to say "oh, i saw a dirty queue" is not the same as someone openly expressing the complaint about DL unprovoked) and attractions and custodial share the responsability.

Hmm, I wonder what the solution could be?

[marron-cream]

Originally posted by Loric
Well, the place operates without a fan-base threatening to turn in their APs.

Ever think that maybe the CMs in general do need an attitude shift? You can't blame management forever - they're certainly not in the right, but there comes a point when the CMs themselves have stopped trying, and I think it's reached that point

Whatever. Please don't try to compare apples and oranges. DL and WDW are two different setups. They don't run the same way. We get managers from the outside who think DL shops can be run like your local mall. Then there is you, who seems to think that WDW policies will solve all of DL's problems. But newsflash: it doesn't work that way! Don't blame all the CMs for a bad attitude. You clearly haven't ever seen any of us rushing around, trying to be in 10 places at once because we're understaffed and everyone wants everything done RIGHT NOW. You clearly haven't been in a rotation where you're being slammed with people and suddenly, surprise! Your manager decides that the shift you were counting on to alleviate the ratio of 1 CM:10 Guests isn't necessary, since it's more important to make the labor hours balance, and instead cuts that shift without having ever been out in the front to see how things are going, leaving you with a stranded and stressed CM and angry guests. Managers at DL tend to have working leads as a buffer between them and the guest, unlike WDW. So yeah, a lot of the bad situations at DL CAN be blamed on management. The lone custodial CM can't clean a queue if he/she is the only CM working all of Critter or all of NOS. Try working here first before you start telling us who and who not to blame for the state of things.
Granted, there are bad CMs, but I'm sure you can find them in every Disney theme park. You can't tell me that everyone who works at WDW is perfect. I mean, Brer Blue Bottle had (has?) been alive and kicking for six days on Splash Mountain. Gee, if that's not a complaint, I don't know what is.

[Loric]

Originally posted by marron-cream
decides that the shift you were counting on to alleviate the ratio of 1 CM:10 Guests isn't necessary

Did you typo? 1:10 for a ratio sounds way too cushy. 1:100 sounds far more realistic, but at WDW the number is somewhere around 1:500 - is there a specific circumstance you're refering to? I can't imagine why 1:10 would be hard on any CM.

City Hall maybe? Quick service food..? Some other restaurant setting?

Ten..? I'm gonna be pondering this all day... Wow, a world with only 10 guests at a time.. definately cushy.

[marron-cream]

I can't imagine why 1:10 would be hard on any CM.

In my department, 1:10 is pretty darned tough when all 10 guests each have 5 or 6 highly breakable items that have to be carefully and individually wrapped. It's not you can just shove them down a conveyer belt and tell them to do it themselves. Again, you're speaking of something you know nothing about.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. Try actually, oh, I dunno, working at DL before you start criticizing the *laziness* of our cast members. Just remember Brer Blue Bottle.

[Loric]

Originally posted by marron-cream
I can't imagine why 1:10 would be hard on any CM.

In my department, 1:10 is pretty darned tough when all 10 guests each have 5 or 6 highly breakable items that have to be carefully and individually wrapped. It's not you can just shove them down a conveyer belt and tell them to do it themselves. Again, you're speaking of something you know nothing about.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. Try actually, oh, I dunno, working at DL before you start criticizing the *laziness* of our cast members. Just remember Brer Blue Bottle.

Wow, pot calling the kettle black, Mr. doesn't work in attractions or custodial