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Thread: The Redhead to have new role in Pirates of the Caribbean attractions in DL; WDW

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    The Redhead to have new role in Pirates of the Caribbean attractions in DL; WDW

    Disneyland Paris today announced some changes to their version of the classic Pirates of the Caribbean attraction, which reopens July 24 following refurbishment. Tucked at the bottom of that Disney Parks Blog article was a cannonball of an additional announcement - changes are also coming to the Pirates attractions in Disneyland and Walt Disney World.



    Concept art shows changes planned for the Disneyland Paris version of the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction. Photo Disney.


    Both attractions will close for scheduled refurbishment in early 2018, and will reopen with a re-imagined auction scene, featuring the famous Redhead in a brand-new role. No longer satisfied to be a wench for the taking, the Redhead is joining the ranks of the pirate crew, and helping to conduct an "auction" of goods plundered from the local townspeople.


    This change is certain to be met with criticism from die-hard fans who hate to see any changes made to the classic attractions, especially those touched by Walt Disney himself. Disney Legend Marty Sklar, who worked closely with Walt Disney during the earliest days of Disneyland, says the changes are in keeping with Walt's vision of the parks.


    "To me, the Imagineers are simply reflecting what Walt started the day Disneyland opened making changes that create exciting new experiences for our guests. I can't think of a single attraction that has not been enhanced and improved, some over and over again. Change is a 'tradition' at Disneyland that today's Imagineers practice they learned it from their mentors, many of them Walt's original team of storytellers and designers the Disney Legends."

    "Pirates of the Caribbean has always represented great Disney Park storytelling; it has set the standard for the theme park industry for half a century! But it's a story you can continue to add fun to, with great characters in new 'performances.' That's what the Imagineers have done with this new auction scene it's like a theatre show with a new act."


    In fact, Pirates has been updated several times since first debuting at Disneyland in 1967, and each change has had its share of fans and detractors. Most notorious was the change made to the ride in 1997, in which a scene of chasing women through the town was altered by placing trays of food in the women's hands, thus framing the conflict as one of gluttony rather than lust. (The Walt Disney World version of the ride, which opened in 1973, had always featured food.)



    The current version of Pirates of the Caribbean places the Redhead in a line of unwilling brides at the pirate auction. Photo Disney.


    The popularity of the theme park ride inspired Walt Disney Pictures to launch a wildly successful film franchise, beginning in 2003 with Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Three years later, Disney brought the story full circle, adding characters from the film franchise to the attraction. Disneyland spokesperson Suzi Brown tells MousePlanet,


    "From introducing characters from the film saga, to the technology and story enhancements, changes to our attractions are done in the spirit of moving forward that Walt Disney inspired. We believe the time is right to turn the page to a new story in this scene, consistent with the humorous, adventurous spirit of the attraction."


    This brings us to 2018, and the latest change to the iconic ride. Concept art released by Disney shows the banner in the auction scene, which currently reads "Take a Wench for a Bride," will be replaced with a new banner reading "Surrender Yer Loot." Wealthy townspeople are shown hauling their household treasures to the steps, under the watchful eye of the pirates, which now include a gun-toting Redhead.



    Kathy Mangum, vice president and executive producer with Walt Disney Imagineering, explains what Imagineers hoped to accomplish with this update.


    "Our team thought long and hard about how to best update this scene. Given the redhead has long been a fan favorite, we wanted to keep her as a pivotal part of the story, so we made her a plundering pirate! We think this keeps to the original vision of the attraction as envisioned by Marc Davis, X Atencio and the other Disney legends who first brought this classic to life."


    The Disneyland and Walt Disney World attractions will each close in early 2018 for this refurbishment, and Disney has not given specific reopening dates.

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    So where does it stop with these kinds of changes? This is just ridiculous IMO.

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    This is a fantastic change! I absolutely love the inclusion of female pirates, as it highlights their actual existence throughout history. Even Anne Bonny was a feisty redhead. So, this is a nice nod to her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny

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    They should have had her auction off a "groom" to the other female pirates....

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Berry Princess View Post
    So where does it stop with these kinds of changes? This is just ridiculous IMO.
    I don't know, but I think getting rid of making a joke out of the enslavement of women is a good start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    I don't know, but I think getting rid of making a joke out of the enslavement of women is a good start.
    IMO not everything in the world needs to be changed to be PC either. Considering its a Pirates themed right, what has been in there wasn't uncommon and no one can change history of those things. Plus its going from that to stealing from people and you still have an overweight woman chasing a man with food. So if there is issues to things why are these all ok and why is it ok to have the woman like that still after all these years? Pretty soon we are going to not see cannons fired off or the fight scene because it won't be ok and let's not forget the drinking they are all doing. Might as well change the song's lyrics as well now too. This is why I ask where does it stop? I'd have no probably tossing lady pirates in the ride because there was plenty of them too. Hell I'd welcome them to do that and get rid of all the Jack Sparrows with putting them in his place. Yet at the end of the day we can't change every little thing because someone might not like it for whatever reason(s), you know? That is all I will say on it so we don't take if off to something it doesn't need to be. I will say right now, sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but not going to change it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    I don't know, but I think getting rid of making a joke out of the enslavement of women is a good start.
    I completely agree. The fact that the purpose of this scene was a joke about sexual slavery has always made me really uncomfortable on this ride. I don't think it is crazy PC to switch around a scene that was literally about selling women into slavery to one that is about robbing people. They aren't making the pirates into good guys, they are just switching to a crime that doesn't involve rape. I'm cool with that.

    The fact that they are keeping the most beloved characters, including the auctioneer and the redhead is great. Also, I love the idea that there will now be female pirates on the ride! They were real, powerful figures in history. This American Life recently had a very interesting story about Cheng I Sao, who was considered one of the most successful pirates ever. I'm grateful that they are adding some women pirates into the ride who are just as pillaging as the men.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Berry Princess View Post
    IMO not everything in the world needs to be changed to be PC either. Considering its a Pirates themed right, what has been in there wasn't uncommon and no one can change history of those things. Plus its going from that to stealing from people and you still have an overweight woman chasing a man with food. So if there is issues to things why are these all ok and why is it ok to have the woman like that still after all these years? Pretty soon we are going to not see cannons fired off or the fight scene because it won't be ok and let's not forget the drinking they are all doing. Might as well change the song's lyrics as well now too. This is why I ask where does it stop? I'd have no probably tossing lady pirates in the ride because there was plenty of them too. Hell I'd welcome them to do that and get rid of all the Jack Sparrows with putting them in his place. Yet at the end of the day we can't change every little thing because someone might not like it for whatever reason(s), you know? That is all I will say on it so we don't take if off to something it doesn't need to be. I will say right now, sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but not going to change it.
    After the stunt JD pulled last week, that was the first thought in my mind when I read about this change. This down time is a great opportunity to remove him from all scenes in the rides at the same time. (unless it's for some reason OK for an actor shown prominently in the ride to suggest assassination of a very specific real-life person, but not OK to indirectly allude to rape of fictional women who only exist in the ride itself (unless there are real-life women the animatronics were modeled after many years ago - I suppose that's a possibility, so maybe they are not 100% fictional.)

    While I'm not going to get all depressed about changing the red-head scene, I also agree with the point that what it is changing to is not wholesome either. I guess thievery may not always involve violence, but it's a pretty sure bet a lot of it does. Who did the pirates assault or kill in the town before "plundering their goods"?

    As you said, where do you draw the line? I don't think anyone goes on POTC and says "I think I will go be a real life pirate now". (at least I hope not)
    Last edited by Dave1313; 06-30-2017 at 06:58 AM.
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  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1313 View Post
    After the stunt JD pulled last week...
    So you're only concerned with his statements about theoretical violence against a white man, not his actual acts of violence against a woman?

    Yes, pirates were bad. Pirates are bad. I'm glad Disney has decided that making jokes about the enslavement of women is not okay.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    So you're only concerned with his statements about theoretical violence against a white man, not his actual acts of violence against a woman?

    Yes, pirates were bad. Pirates are bad. I'm glad Disney has decided that making jokes about the enslavement of women is not okay.
    Didn't say that, but thank you for feeling superior enough to put words in my mouth.

    Now that you remind me of it, those past acts as well should have caused his removal from the ride once they were proven. And he certainly should not be doing those live appearances randomly at DL in the ride.

    Last week's ridiculousness was just fresh in my mind when this story about the ride modification came up. I guess they really should have removed him a couple years ago, and they really never should have made the most recent movie either. (I need to confess I do not have the full time line of atrocities committed by Johnny Depp in my memory, so forgive me if it was long enough that multiple POTC movies should not have been made)
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    I think this is ridiculous. In fact, bring back the ORIGINAL POTC! Just my opinion....and I certainly don't mean anything disparaging against women.....but this re-enacts how Pirates lived and behaved. It's a period of time when this was a normal occurrence in Pirate history.....

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  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    So you're only concerned with his statements about theoretical violence against a white man, not his actual acts of violence against a woman?
    Um let's clarify something here. It was not theoretical violence against a white man!!! It was about the assassination of the POTUS!!! Whether you like him or not he is the POTUS. That is not ok, cool and just plain wrong.
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    While I am against violence against women, sex trafficking and slavery - I do not believe that the scene in question glorifies any of those things. I don't think the inclusion of that scene means that Disney promotes those crimes either. If Disney is concerned about the optics - they should donate to causes that address these crimes. Changing the ride is lip service. It's pandering to the masses and I am disappointed in the company's choice.

    And I would bet that the coarseness of the current administration has lead to this. We as a society think it's ok to brag about grabbing women's genitals and get elected president. The people who are up in arms about the president's crude behavior are now looking for balance - looking at women's issues. Disney is a company and staying inline with this kind of issue is important to the bottom line. So they change a ride.

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  15. #14

    Let's omit history while we're at it. Pretend all kinds of bad stuff never happened.

    Your attention, please. The Disneyland Limited now leaving for a grand circle tour of the Magic Kingdom. Aboaaard!

  16. #15

    I have to say im tired of the pc stuff if you dont like something about the ride dont ride it. I dont like the changes at all


  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MidwayManiac View Post
    Let's omit history while we're at it. Pretend all kinds of bad stuff never happened.
    thats where we're going - we can pretend everything was fine, all rainbows and unicorns, because we all know if we ignore the past and stick our head in the sand because we may be offended at some episode in history, we'll teach our children only the nice things about humanity.

    In reality, the constant "whitewashing" (pun intended) of our past will only insure the ignorance of future generations living in a world of good think and good speak.

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    Admittedly, my initial reaction to this news was that it is ridiculous....but the changes are happening....it's best to deal with it. Pirates is my all-time favorite attraction, and one that I ride first and foremost when I visit the park....in fact, I ride it at least 2 or 3 times.....and I don't see that changing. But here's a question to my fellow Disneyland peeps....if they are changing the auction scene to reflect women Pirates, does that me the auctioneer will go away? It's hard to imagine that Paul Frees' voice won't be in the attraction.....or will they just re-purpose it somehow? Anyone know?

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    Next up: removal of the cannon battle. Since all guns - and especially cannons - are scary and not PC, that scene will now be replaced with pirates planting daises on a beautiful hillside.


  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    I don't know, but I think getting rid of making a joke out of the enslavement of women is a good start.
    Taking this a bit too seriously are we?

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  21. #20

    I can live with the change. My perspective has changed over the years of that scene because of my three daughters.

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  22. #21

    If you're concerned about historical accuracy, the most successful pirate ever was Cheng I Sao, a Chinese woman. It's about time they added a woman pirate to the ride.


  23. #22

    Reading a quick web story on her history, I guess it would then probably need to be changed to "Pirates of the World"? Seems she was focused in the general area of the South China Sea?

    The single story I read as an example didn't mention her fleet making it's way to the Caribbean.

    -Dave

  24. #23

    A couple of thoughts to keep this thread going...

    First, if Disney decided to make no changes to the current state of POTC, I'd be okay with it, but only because I do enjoy the legacy caricature nature of the attraction. The attraction does glamorize piracy, but in a cartoonish way. I believe visitors immersion into this world has always been POTC's strongest element and every scene strengthens the theme. In other words, I don't consciously think about all the crime (killing, assault, theft, arson, etc) that resulted from pirate activity in the real past. Instead, I'm drawn to the romantic themed elements of the attraction, just the way it was intended when the attraction was being conceived.

    Second, and in contrast to my first point, I'm happy Disney Imagineering gets another shot at plussing POTC. Walt said that Disneyland will never be finished and his words shouldn't be taken so lightly that we forget that the Parks are, and likely will be, constantly in a state of motion. This change is only to one scene in the attraction, and removes selling brides in place of looting the town a little more. It's good story. While the original scene will live on in the hearts of dedicated Disney guests, the new scene should help reinforce the attraction's theme to include a female lead.

    Also, to anyone who thinks that the bride auction scene somehow implies rape, I think that's over the top hyperbole. The closest we ever saw to any physical aggression was the attraction's original pirates chasing women through the doors and windows of the scene building structures. While it's certainly true that in the real history of piracy throughout the world, this terrible act did occur, the scene in POTC stops well short of this. I've always thought of this scene as pirates finally retiring from the sea and settling down into a town. Taken in context with the progression of the attraction's scenes, pirates generally get more drunk, more sleepy, and more likely to set the whole town on fire accidentally than anything else, harming themselves in the process.

    Anyhow, I think this change to POTC works well within the story of the attraction. I just hope it's not closed for too long. I'd like it to be back open when my family heads back to the Park for SWL's opening!


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    Quote Originally Posted by goalieump413 View Post
    A couple of thoughts to keep this thread going...

    First, if Disney decided to make no changes to the current state of POTC, I'd be okay with it, but only because I do enjoy the legacy caricature nature of the attraction. The attraction does glamorize piracy, but in a cartoonish way. I believe visitors immersion into this world has always been POTC's strongest element and every scene strengthens the theme. In other words, I don't consciously think about all the crime (killing, assault, theft, arson, etc) that resulted from pirate activity in the real past. Instead, I'm drawn to the romantic themed elements of the attraction, just the way it was intended when the attraction was being conceived.

    Second, and in contrast to my first point, I'm happy Disney Imagineering gets another shot at plussing POTC. Walt said that Disneyland will never be finished and his words shouldn't be taken so lightly that we forget that the Parks are, and likely will be, constantly in a state of motion. This change is only to one scene in the attraction, and removes selling brides in place of looting the town a little more. It's good story. While the original scene will live on in the hearts of dedicated Disney guests, the new scene should help reinforce the attraction's theme to include a female lead.

    Also, to anyone who thinks that the bride auction scene somehow implies rape, I think that's over the top hyperbole. The closest we ever saw to any physical aggression was the attraction's original pirates chasing women through the doors and windows of the scene building structures. While it's certainly true that in the real history of piracy throughout the world, this terrible act did occur, the scene in POTC stops well short of this. I've always thought of this scene as pirates finally retiring from the sea and settling down into a town. Taken in context with the progression of the attraction's scenes, pirates generally get more drunk, more sleepy, and more likely to set the whole town on fire accidentally than anything else, harming themselves in the process.

    Anyhow, I think this change to POTC works well within the story of the attraction. I just hope it's not closed for too long. I'd like it to be back open when my family heads back to the Park for SWL's opening!
    Excellent post....and I agree 100%.....
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  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Berry Princess View Post
    IMO not everything in the world needs to be changed to be PC either. Considering its a Pirates themed right, what has been in there wasn't uncommon and no one can change history of those things. Plus its going from that to stealing from people and you still have an overweight woman chasing a man with food. So if there is issues to things why are these all ok and why is it ok to have the woman like that still after all these years? Pretty soon we are going to not see cannons fired off or the fight scene because it won't be ok and let's not forget the drinking they are all doing. Might as well change the song's lyrics as well now too. This is why I ask where does it stop? I'd have no probably tossing lady pirates in the ride because there was plenty of them too. Hell I'd welcome them to do that and get rid of all the Jack Sparrows with putting them in his place. Yet at the end of the day we can't change every little thing because someone might not like it for whatever reason(s), you know? That is all I will say on it so we don't take if off to something it doesn't need to be. I will say right now, sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but not going to change it.
    I totally agree with you.

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