Cable modem via router to PC and Mac?

[Morrigoon]

My friend has cable modem service. She was told that while hubs can't be used and are easily detected, that routers aren't, and can be used for her to split her access between her and her roommate.

a)is this true?
b)what's the procedure for connecting a Mac and a PC to the same router? Note that both computers currently have ethernet cards.
c)is it as easy as it sounds, or is there some special stuff she needs to look for?

also, she keeps looking at the wireless routers. Seems to me she'd need some sort of wireless card then for both computers, wouldn't she? Isn't she better off with the hard wired stuff?

[cemeinke]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
a)is this true?
b)what's the procedure for connecting a Mac and a PC to the same router? Note that both computers currently have ethernet cards.
c)is it as easy as it sounds, or is there some special stuff she needs to look for?

a) Not sure, I think it all depends on how you configure your network

b) We've had a couple visiting Macs hook into our netwrok, simply plugs the mac into the router using an ethernet cable. You must also configure his make to let the router assign it an IP address, but that's not very difficult

c) No "special" stuff - a router, ethernet cards & cables.

[adriennek]

Our cable modem is hooked up to our Apple Airport. Doc and other MP staff members with PC laptops (Note: Doc's PeeCee is a work peecee, we don't pay for it!) use their wireless cards to connect to the modem via the airport.

Adrienne

[Bruce Bergman]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
My friend has cable modem service. She was told that while hubs can't be used and are easily detected, that routers aren't, and can be used for her to split her access between her and her roommate.

a)is this true?

Yes. If you use a router, the router handles the chore of getting an IP address and the "Procedural" work with the outside world. As far as the cable company (or DSL provider) is concerned, they see just one machine. If the provider tries to restrict it to the exact machine you signed up with, most routers can 'clone' the MAC Address "serial number" of the Network Card in your primary computer - so if something goes blooey in the router you can uplug it and connect that computer direct.

The router keeps track of which PC inside your house was asking for what information, and routes the responses back to the right computer.

b)what's the procedure for connecting a Mac and a PC to the same router? Note that both computers currently have ethernet cards.

Just get good booted CAT-5 patch cords, and connect each computer to one of the LAN ports on the router. The boots keep you from ripping off the little locking tab on the cable connectors by snagging them, but you can still kill them if you try...

c)is it as easy as it sounds, or is there some special stuff she needs to look for?

Good support from the router maker - occasionally the "keepers of the Internet" will invent new features, and you MAY need to be able to upgrade the firmware on the router. I stick with Linksys, and their tech support is great. Yes, even us techies don't know everything about all equipment - we call the people who deal with that equipment all day, every day.)

also, she keeps looking at the wireless routers. Seems to me she'd need some sort of wireless card then for both computers, wouldn't she? Isn't she better off with the hard wired stuff?

Yes, all the computers will need a wireless adapter of some sort, either PC Card, PCI card, USB port, etc. Try to stick with all the same brand network adapters, so they talk to each other with a minimum of setup hassles.

And go with wireless networking ONLY if you are willing to go through all the extra rigamarole of turning on and tweaking all the security protocols, changing the passwords and network names, etc., to lock it down tight. Otherwise, you are providing a big free "WiFi Hot Spot" for neighbors and passers-by to use - and misuse - as they choose.

If someone spams, hacks, or starts an attack on another system through the WiFi connection, it will trace right back to your account. This is bad. At least with a wired home network they have to gain physical access.

--<< Bruce >>--

[adriennek]

Originally posted by Bruce Bergman
And go with wireless networking ONLY if you are willing to go through all the extra rigamarole of turning on and tweaking all the security protocols, changing the passwords and network names, etc., to lock it down tight. Otherwise, you are providing a big free "WiFi Hot Spot" for neighbors and passers-by to use - and misuse - as they choose.

With our system, the passwords and encryption have been very easy to deal with. All we had to do with Doc's pc is "pick the encryption key on his wireless card and set the password." It's totally secure and we're not at all a hotspot.

Adrienne

[Moonliner]

a)is this true?

Yes and no. YES you can get a router like the linksys BEFSX41for less than $100. That particular model includes a firewall (highly recommended) and a 4 port hub for attaching multiple computers.
It (like other Cable/DSL routers) uses a feature called NAT to hide multiple PC's behind the single IP address given to you by your ISP. It's easy to setup you just need to follow the step-by-steps and have any username/passwords required by your ISP. [NO] it does NOT hide the fact that you have multiple PC's from your cable company. To date cable companies turn a blind eye at multiple PC's. They allow it but they don't want to support them.

b)what's the procedure

If you get the model with a built in hub it goes something like this:
1. Attach the 'INTERNET' port on your router to your cable modem.
2. Attach your PC to a port on the router
3. Run the setup software to access the router and setup your connection (ie username/password)
4. Attach other PC's to the router
5. surf away...

c)is it as easy as it sounds

Allow an hour or two for the initial setup and then Yes. It's as easy as that.

d) Wireless?

Unless you have built-in wireless on your home PC's then you need a wireless version of the router plus a card for each PC. If we are talking desktops and you can easily run a cable to each PC then I'd stick with that. If you have laptops and want to be able to use hotspots while out and about it might make sense to go wireless.

e) What about security??

Good Question! Any PC connected to the Internet needs a good firewall. I like a firewall on the router. It protects every PC you have at the same time by making your connection into a virtual one-way device. You can freely surf to anything/everything, get email, etc.. but the inbound ports that cause all the problems (ftp, RPC, etc..) are closed down.

[Bruce Bergman]

Originally posted by adriennek
With our system, the passwords and encryption have been very easy to deal with. All we had to do with Doc's pc is "pick the encryption key on his wireless card and set the password." It's totally secure and we're not at all a hotspot.

Adrienne

Good for you - but it doesn't always work simply on the first try.

But if Morrigoon (or whoever else is out there reading this) isn't aware of the need to turn the encryption on for any Wireless net links they install that should remain private and secured, theirs WILL be wide open. Had to bring it up.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Morrigoon]

I honestly don't think my friend knows any of this. She keeps obsessing on the whole wireless thing as if it will make things easier, which I don't agree with. She does know about airport, and it sounds like that'll be the router for her, especially after what you guys said about the airport taking pc's okay.

Thanks for the input!

[adriennek]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
She does know about airport, and it sounds like that'll be the router for her, especially after what you guys said about the airport taking pc's okay.

Thanks for the input!

Doc's on a business trip right now, but I know that his wireless card is just a cheapy card he picked up at Fry's, nothing special. (I think the exact words he used were "The cheapest card Fry's had."

Adrienne

[DisneyFan25863]

Basically for a wireless network, all your friend needs to do is this:

1)Buy a router/Wireless Cards (all eaisly labled)
2)Plug Everything in (with included big picture thing)
3)Install the software
4)Configure the Modem (most Cable modems don't need to do this, though)
5)Configure WEP/WPA (typing in a password on all computers)

I did mine in about an hour. Its not hard at all

[Bill Catherall]

Unless the router is in a different room from the computer and you don't want to run wire across the house/apartment, or you want to use a laptop, wireless is an unnecessary expense.

[Morrigoon]

Well, basically, she and her roommate want to share the connection. Each wants her computer in her own room. It just seems that wireless adds a level of complexity and expense she doesn't need. First of all, both computers currently have ethernet cards, so why go out and have to buy new cards for wireless?

[DisneyFan25863]

If they don't mind drilling throught walls, and know how to run cabling, then wired is better (cheeper, faster, etc)

If they can't run wires, or don't know how, wireless is better. Prices are going down, and an internet connection won't suffer any speed loss.

Also, make sure that if there are more than 2 computers using the network, you get a switch, not a hub.

[Demigod121]

Go with the Linksys broadband router that was mentioned earlier. I have one and it has been very easy for me to set up. I have my cable internet split between two PCs, and with very few exceptions has performed flawlessly.

Plus the Linksys supports some outside vendor firewalls too (I cant remember specifically which one, tho).

-Demigod

[Bill Catherall]

Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
Also, make sure that if there are more than 2 computers using the network, you get a switch, not a hub.

A 4 port router and network cards for each computer will be all that's necessary. Switches and/or hubs aren't.

[DisneyFan25863]

Originally posted by Bill Catherall
A 4 port router and network cards for each computer will be all that's necessary. Switches and/or hubs aren't.

:sheepish grin:

Your right. I was just thinking about my terribly complicated network setup, and saw the switch next to my computer, and said "She should get a switch!"

[Bruce Bergman]

Originally posted by Bill Catherall
A 4 port router and network cards for each computer will be all that's necessary. Switches and/or hubs aren't.

For most residential installations with only 2 or 3 machines, a switch is a luxury, unless you get one built into the router for no extra charge - I paid a little more for the 8-port switched router to keep it all in one box. But for a small business with a dozen people working together, and lots of sharing big files all day, having a switched connection is essential.

But shop around - a 5-port hub is ~$20, but a 5-port Switch (like I have at my computer desk) is only ~$35, well worth the small extra cost. (It's the big-business 24-port managed switches with fiber-optic backbone connections that get pricy.)

The one switch at my computer desk saved me hours of work running extra data lines back to the Router/Switch in my phone closet. (I hate working in hot attics, especially for free...) And as a bonus, it gives me lots of pretty blinkenlights on the front panel so I can see whether everything is working right without running to the other end of the house.

Where having a router comes into play is when you start moving big files around between two computers in the house (like streaming media, CAD files, etc.), while another person on a third machine is trying to surf the Web - the file transfer can saturate a 10MB connection and lag the person trying to surf or use net telephony.

The switch can split the traffic of the two fast local computers talking between themselves off to a virtual "private connection", and allow the other users to still get to the Internet af full speed. The switch can also handle the 'translation' duties between machines with 100Mhz and 10Mhz network cards. With a dumb hub, everyone has to run at the lowest common speed.

--<< Bruce >>--

[DisneyFan25863]

When I got my setup, I got 2 switches (one for downstaris, one for upstairs), and put up a makeshift 802.11b network between them. That way I had 100 BaseT for upstairs and downstairs, and 10 BaseT inbetween. Overall, it cost me $150. I was then able to get my hands on a hardware firewall between the downstairs switch and the modem for free. Works for me


Of course, I don't think you need anything that advanced, but incase you have more than 2-3 computers, a switch or a switch/router combo can really help!

[Morrigoon]

So we're in costco and my friend walks up to me with another wireless router... and I finally figure out what she's getting at. They have em with USB external devices that do the wireless stuff so you don't need to install an actual wireless card.

Just thought you'd think that was interesting.

[Bill Catherall]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
They have em with USB external devices that do the wireless stuff so you don't need to install an actual wireless card.

But then you're limited to USB speeds, but if that's okay with her it would certainly solve the problem of having the 2 computers in seperate rooms.

[DisneyFan25863]

Originally posted by Bill Catherall
But then you're limited to USB speeds, but if that's okay with her it would certainly solve the problem of having the 2 computers in seperate rooms.

Most of the time, USB speeds are fast enough for 802.11b. If USB is 11/mbps, and WiFi is 11/mbps (which only really happens if you re standing like 2 inches away from the Router), you should be fine. I have one installed on a computer, and I see no difference in speed compared to my 5 year old laptop with a PC card installed.

[JeffG]

Also, most newer USB Wi-Fi adapters are compatible with USB 2.0, which is plenty fast even for 802.11g. You can generally add USB 2.0 ports to a PC for under $40.

-Jeff

[Bill Catherall]

Well, I guess USB is faster than I give it credit.