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Thread: 10K report [Early? sweep at the Tinker Bell 10K]

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    10K report [Early? sweep at the Tinker Bell 10K]

    I was among the many runners in the Inaugural Tinkerbell 10K who were stopped from finishing. We all signed the waiver that we knew we could be picked up by the " sag wagon" if we failed to keep up a 16 minute mile pace. The first group started at 6am. My group, the fourth, started between 6:15 and 6:30 depending on where you were in the throng. It was like being part of a 5000 person human centipede. We were told the Pace runner passed us. It was dark. We never saw her.

    As we entered Disneyland back lot we were passed by two men with red bicycles yelling " coming through". Others reported they had been telling runners how far off pace they were. I guess we were so far off pace they didn't feel it was worth bothering. Ignorance being bliss we foolishly believed what turned out to be unofficial cast members cheer squads who shouted "you're doing good! You're on pace!, etc".

    I'm a 63 y/o beginning runner, my one daughter is a 30 weeks pregnant , the other is a good runner, but loyally stayed with us. This was the first 10K for all of us. We knew the crush at the start had cost us time so we raced past all 13 photo stops, only taking a few quick selfies in places where there were no lines.

    As we went out the interior gate going to Harbor Blvd, right after passing another cadre of Disney cast cheerers, we found a huge pool of stopped runners and the exterior gate closed in front of us. Two large busses were crammed with runners. All was silent. We didn't realize our race was over at first. They forced people out of the way and got the busses out. By now both gates are closed. We are a sea of women surrounded by security. It is reminiscent of a scene from " orange is the New Black". After waiting about 25 minutes nervously chatting amongst ourselves, someone began to chant " Let us out!" It was quickly taken up and within seconds a Run Disney staffer ran up a conveniently placed set of pipe steps and shouted " you will get your medals but you are going to have to follow instructions and stay together, we will walk you out the way you came". Someone had started to open the gate on the TOT side, but another Disney cast member slammed it back shut. At that point Mr RunDisney began to lead us around between the walls back towards the finish in Timba lot. About halfway we were met by cast with a golf cart thingy. They had boxes of wrapped medals which we were tossed, someone wrote down our numbers. I guess so we couldn't somehow sneak onto the course and pretend to finish. Another cast member handed us warm bottles of water.

    My pregnant daughter asked the staff about her snack as she was feeling faint by then. We were told the course was closed, the race was over, but if we insisted we could probably find her a snack at the tent. When we arrived many runners were still coming in, to cheers and properly awarded medals and proud photos. If you check their 5K time you will find many were no faster than us, they just started sooner and got through the gate in time. Being inexperienced we trusted the Disney cast members words. We were wrong. But there is no excuse for the way we were treated. The RD man could have let people know what was going on, if there was some plan, other than leaving us stand backstage until they figured something out. Communication is key, but it needs to be honest communication.

    Please feel free to clean up my poor writing and check the corroborating posts on the Run Disney Facebook page. I have video of the scene back there if you would like to see it. Denece

    Last edited by AVP; 01-20-2014 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Fixed formatting

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    I've been told that the 10K Pace Runner started in **C** corral, not the back of the course.

    I was cheering for the 10K and saw a blonde woman on a bike pass the runners yelling at them and I was a bit disappointed by what I saw. She wasn't exactly... polite about it. She was yelling and people and if I'd been running, I would've been upset at how she was talking to me. I heard similar stories at the Half. They were more threatening than encouraging.

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    That is just horrendous!

    I wonder if they got instant feedback that day, because my experience with the flag cyclists was pretty positive after Mile 8 (which was not at all positive, because they were shouting at us that we were behind, even though we know what those flags mean). However, from Mile 9 onward, they would shout that I just needed to keep going and actually applauded. I even joked with the one gal that she kept "beating" me to the mile markers, and she said, "That's only because I have a bike. If I were on foot, you'd still be ahead of me." She was actually very encouraging and I credit that support.

    They also seemed to be very lenient on the half, because I finished at 4 hours net time, and I noticed that someone had an official net time of like 4:30. So, I'm wondering if they heeded the complaints from the 10K and made adjustments.

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  5. #4

    My experience with the Tink 10K was just the same. However, I did not see one pacer pass me at any point. I was on track according to nike running - 15 minute miles. I stopped for one quick photo opp and that was it. I knew I didn't have the time. This was my first RD event and people on FB kept talking about balloon ladies etc but I never saw one so I still have no idea who there are. And having someone with a flag in the crowd? Uh forget it. Saw nothing. My only surprise was at the gates when I saw people being stopped and actually saw the gates closing right in front of me. We were all on pace. And then I found out some other people were given an alternate route - why didn't that happen to us? Talk about serious unfairness.

    And the man yelling at us like we were children to " stay together or else you won't get your medal"..that was unnecessary attitude. When I also asked some woman about what was happening (towards the end of the 35 min wait) - she said she checked the clocks and we were all "too slow". B.S. All 600 of us were not too slow..this was handled so unprofessionally and the rudeness some of these people emitted was uncalled for.

    Last edited by charmedonex; 01-21-2014 at 09:23 AM.

  6. #5

    I'm glad that was the case for you (at least towards the end)! If I were running the half, I would def appreciate encouragement with those last miles. But it really makes me wonder that IF they did make adjustments - why are they ignoring all of us on FB and from the emails on RD site and not actually addressing the issue that YES, there was a huge problem and failure..ignoring it is kind of messed up :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyphile View Post
    That is just horrendous!

    I wonder if they got instant feedback that day, because my experience with the flag cyclists was pretty positive after Mile 8 (which was not at all positive, because they were shouting at us that we were behind, even though we know what those flags mean). However, from Mile 9 onward, they would shout that I just needed to keep going and actually applauded. I even joked with the one gal that she kept "beating" me to the mile markers, and she said, "That's only because I have a bike. If I were on foot, you'd still be ahead of me." She was actually very encouraging and I credit that support.

    They also seemed to be very lenient on the half, because I finished at 4 hours net time, and I noticed that someone had an official net time of like 4:30. So, I'm wondering if they heeded the complaints from the 10K and made adjustments.

  7. #6

    I too, like Denece, was one of the unfortunate group that was herded like cattle, in the back area of California Adventure, with no explanation as to what has happened. No place to sit, no water, no explanation... and that went on for about 30 minutes. To this date, no one has received an explanation as to what happened, nor were we givin an apology. When I spoke to the RunDisney person this morning and told her my story, she was shocked. She was shocked to know that such a large group was not allowed to finish, and it should have not been a time issue since there were many slower runners, MUCH SLOWER, who were allowed to finish.

    The issue that really raised concerns with her was how we were treated at the end. I explained to her that my two daughters (10 & 14) had completed the 10K and were looking for their parents. They were nervous and worried. I told her that I had to fight my way back to the finishing area so that I can meet up with them. That was not how we wanted this day to end.

    I told her that we are seriously reconsidering whether we are going to participate in the Disneyland 10K again in August based on how we were treated.

    She was really apologetic and strongly suggested that I send an email. She said that she will keep an eye out for the email and make sure that someone gets back to me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedonex View Post
    This was my first RD event and people on FB kept talking about balloon ladies etc but I never saw one so I still have no idea who there are. And having someone with a flag in the crowd? Uh forget it. Saw nothing.
    Balloon ladies are only at the Walt Disney World races, not Disneyland.

    The flags would have been on the mile marker signs.
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  9. #8

    "When I spoke to the RunDisney person this morning and told her my story, she was shocked. She was shocked to know that such a large group was not allowed to finish, and it should have not been a time issue since there were many slower runners, MUCH SLOWER, who were allowed to finish."

    I emailed them Saturday right after the race, I may have been a bit incoherent I was still so upset! I sent them a more considered email last night. Still no response so I may call as well. Many finishers had longer times at the halfway point but were allowed to finish, so the "16 MM" rule was applied randomly to those at the end of the pack.
    Also training to a 15MM may be feasible but some of us lack the physical prowess to make up the time we lost when shuffling along in a mass of folks for the first mile or so and at the bottlenecks. I did my training on the treadmill at my gym so I know I can do the pace, but not much more. I'm 63 and my knees wont take it.
    Somebody on their Facebook page sent them a link to "Disney's Art Of Management" which made us all laugh, but the post was quickly expunged as were many uncomplimentary posts on their site Saturday. And I know it was not by the poster since some of them were mine!
    So, sweep me if its my bad, but be kind about it, this IS still Disneyland. The way Run Disney handled this was shocking. I doubt we will receive much sympathy from them since further research shows a history of them mismanaging races.
    Wish I had known that before.


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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    I've been told that the 10K Pace Runner started in **C** corral, not the back of the course.
    That in and of itself is ridiculous and NOT how they advertise the meaning of 16 minute miles and being swept.
    Cathy

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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedonex View Post
    I'm glad that was the case for you (at least towards the end)! If I were running the half, I would def appreciate encouragement with those last miles. But it really makes me wonder that IF they did make adjustments - why are they ignoring all of us on FB and from the emails on RD site and not actually addressing the issue that YES, there was a huge problem and failure..ignoring it is kind of messed up :/
    Most certainly it should be addressed. I'm actually very upset about this, because I support my fellow runners, and even though I wasn't there, I feel like it's messing with my "family", you know? I am really anxious to know if/how/what they respond. I'm really appalled at how you folks were treated.
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  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyphile View Post
    Most certainly it should be addressed. I'm actually very upset about this, because I support my fellow runners, and even though I wasn't there, I feel like it's messing with my "family", you know? I am really anxious to know if/how/what they respond. I'm really appalled at how you folks were treated.
    Thanks for your support. You should read what some people have been saying on Facebook about those who were in the "corral of shame". No doubt that we will keep you posted as to Disney's response. I have already spoke with Run Disney at the WDW and Disneyland sides, and have also sent an email. Just waiting for something to happen.

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    While this is appalling, it's not unbelievable. I was corralled in B but moved back to D to run with friends. Our plan for Saturday was to just save our legs for Sunday and have a good time taking photos and enjoying an easy run. The plan was to maintain a 14:30/15:00 with photos, etc. We're not fast runners, but in no way did we feel like we would be in danger of a sweep. Corral D was huge. WAY too big, IMO. They could have benefitted from splitting it into two corrals, easily. We took off and were able to jog a bit out of the start but once we turned into the backstage gate of Disneyland there was a complete bottleneck. You could do little more than shuffle at this point. Then, once backstage it was still quite narrow in places and many MANY times we would find a gaggle of dawdlers, not even attempting to keep pace, walking 4-5 abreast. There was no way around it. Our first mile was a 17:24 and I'm a 12:00 10k runner! We had to abandon our intervals as soon as we entered DL property and literally run whenever we had the opportunity (which wasn't often). We kept making our way through the crowds and trying our best to pick up speed. It wasn't until we were in DCA and had passed through the Grizzly River area that we started to regularly use our intervals. By the time we hit Carthay Circle we heard an announcement that we were only 4 minutes above pace. WHAT? We started towards the font/middle of D corral and a good 6 minutes before the last person crossed the start. Our splits were 17:24, 15:59, 15:54, 15:45, 14:14, 13:23. So you see, we were picking up speed little by little the whole way. There's no way that we were only 4 minutes above pace. I do think they swept prematurely for this event. I also believe that they did a very poor job of managing the corrals. With 10,000 runners there should have been 5-6 corrals, IMO. I felt so SO terrible for those in the back of D who had trained hard and were barely going to be able to keep pace anyhow. I'm sure there were many of those who got swept.

    Lesson learned for me….I'm not moving back to the last corral voluntarily ever again.

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    What a horrible mess. To Fairestoneofall's point, they needed more corrals. 10k of participants in 4 corrals does not make sense. And if you notice in the Official Guide book, they show a corral E on the start map which never happened (they went up to F for the half).

    There was 10k at the WDW 10k as well and 5 corrals. Didn't hear of any of the issues that happened at Tinker happening there. So very sorry.

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    One thing that has struck me: In the Half Marathon, we ran MORE than 13.1 miles. Between weaving and such. we add anywhere from .25 to .5 miles to the distance. I saw friends whose Garmin tracks were even 14 miles!

    Keeping that in mind, even when we DO keep 16 mm, it's going to take us longer than the minimum time because we're walking further than 13.1 miles!!

    I remember something similar happened in WDW SEVERAL years ago, before my first rD Half in 2009. Since then, I haven't heard of it happening in any race I've been in. (I DO Believe you. That's not what I'm saying!!!!!) But generally speaking, they've always had a cushion.

    It's **SO** not cool to sweep someone who is keeping the pace or even below it! My heart breaks for everyone who got stuck in this mess. It's not right. If you're keeping pace, you're keeping the pace!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    Balloon ladies are only at the Walt Disney World races, not Disneyland.

    The flags would have been on the mile marker signs.
    Thanks for the clarification. Either way, I didn't see anyone with a flag either.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fairestoneofall View Post
    It wasn't until we were in DCA and had passed through the Grizzly River area that we started to regularly use our intervals. By the time we hit Carthay Circle we heard an announcement that we were only 4 minutes above pace. .
    You heard an announcement? Wow.

    We heard nothing except the Disney Cast cheer squads (who were awesome) that we were on pace, looking good, keep going, etc

    Right up until we were in the Corral Of Shame

    And then we heard nothing because I couldn't even get a staffer to acknowledge me. It was only after we were all chanting that anyone spoke to us from Run Disney since the DJ at the start.

    Is this is what a Disney Race is usually like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    One thing that has struck me: In the Half Marathon, we ran MORE than 13.1 miles. Between weaving and such. we add anywhere from .25 to .5 miles to the distance. I saw friends whose Garmin tracks were even 14 miles!
    Mine clocked about 13.7 miles.
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    RK logged 13.98 for me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GrannyGear View Post
    And then we heard nothing because I couldn't even get a staffer to acknowledge me. It was only after we were all chanting that anyone spoke to us from Run Disney since the DJ at the start.

    Is this is what a Disney Race is usually like?
    I haven't been swept before so I don't know what it's normally like to be swept.

    This was my 9th runDisney Half Marathon.

    One time, I was very upset because at Mile 6, they were putting up the flags on the Mile Marker, but I had been consistently UNDER the Pace (15:30-ish mm). They didn't say anything to us on the course, they just put up the warning flags. BUT. After that mile marker, I never saw them again for the entire race.

    On Sunday, a group of race related people passed us at one point and I got uptight about it. At some point, he said to us: "Don't worry! You're 2 minutes ahead of the pace!" He was very friendly and encouraging when he said it.

    THAT SAID - I have a friend who ran at the BACK of the race on Sunday. She was ahead of pace the whole time. She reported that some skinny blonde young thing kept yelling at them to move faster and threatening that they were going to get swept. This friend of mine is NOT a negative person AT ALL. She said that she was very frustrated because the woman could have been encouraging about it, instead, and that would've met her Disney Expectation. (Keep it up! You can do this! Keep ahead of the pace!) But she chose the yelling and threatening language and attitude, instead.

    I cannot say that I've ever encountered that attitude.

    OH OH OH -one more thing. I do know someone who drove a sweeper bus in September. I heard stories about how they tried to be nice about it because they could tell how disappointed the people were on the bus - especially when the CMs had to cut off their bracelets and they realized that they would not get their Dumbo and/or their Coast to Coast medals. So. I know that there are compassionate CMs and rD workers out there.

    Clearly, they need to train some of their colleagues.
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    Remember that courses are measured as if you ran the tangents (straight lines instead of following a curve). If you don't, you're getting more than certified distance. Also factor in side trips for photos and bathroom stops.


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    AdK- Is this friend my friend, too? If so, she's on her way over for pizza (no, not The Mill) so we can talk about her experience. I'm putting together some feedback for my rD rep. Yesterday was their travel day so I'm sure they were buried today.

    If you can dream it, you can do it. ~Walt Disney

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairestoneofall View Post
    AdK- Is this friend my friend, too? If so, she's on her way over for pizza (no, not The Mill) so we can talk about her experience. I'm putting together some feedback for my rD rep. Yesterday was their travel day so I'm sure they were buried today.
    Yep. The one I met through you. Who's a kick in the pants.
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  24. #23
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    I'm reading through these posts and feeling horrified for the 10k participants who were swept. I'm so sorry for how you were treated!

    I just read a story about the WDW "balloon ladies" and I think the same practice should be used at Disneyland; this way the balloon ladies would be subject to the same bottlenecks and other obstacles that might cause unexpected slow downs. And runners would be very aware of their pace/place.

    So frustrated for all of the 10k participants. UGH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    One thing that has struck me: In the Half Marathon, we ran MORE than 13.1 miles. Between weaving and such. we add anywhere from .25 to .5 miles to the distance. I saw friends whose Garmin tracks were even 14 miles!
    It means it helps to be a little familiar with the course, and mind the tangents (which in race courses mean "the inside corners"). You're right -- you can easily add half a mile to a half-marathon if you don't watch your tangents.
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  26. #25
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    I think mine said 13.6 (and I was right with caribelle the whole time) and that was with one potty stop and a short stop at the MP station. So, considering that we did a lot of weaving and pulling to the right for walk breaks I think this is pretty accurate.

    If you can dream it, you can do it. ~Walt Disney

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