Court tells Disneyland to study Segway use - San Jose Mercury News

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Wall Street Journal (blog)

Court tells Disneyland to study Segway use San Jose Mercury News Disneyland refused to allow her to use the Segway at the theme park, which allows disabled visitors to use wheelchairs and scooters, so she filed a lawsuit under the Americans With Disabilities Act. The lower court ruled in favor of Disneyland. But the ... Court tells Disneyland to study use of Segways by park visitorsLos Angeles Times Daily Writing Sample: Segways at Disneyland?Wall Street Journal (blog) all 15 news articles »

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[testrack]

I have many thoughts and opinions regarding this story. What are your thoughts?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6137405.story

[monkeyboy]

That was an interesting article, as were the comments listed at the end. I've never ridden a Segway, but on my last trip to Disneyland / DCA (April 20 - 29, 2012) I had to rent and use an electric scooter due to some large blisters I had gotten on my heels before I even arrived at the parks. One difficulty I could see with the Segways (aside from the crowd factor) is that the park is not a level surface - there are trolley tracks in Main Street, Frontierland has horse shoes and uneven mounds, Adventureland is pretty uneven as well, New Orleans Square has lots of stairs and hilly areas - I'm not sure what the balance would be like on a two-wheeled vehicle. From what I understand from the comments listed, a Segway doesn't stop immediately and requires the stander/rider to lean forward as they are in motion, so coming to a stop in a crowd of people, especially when there are a lot of excited children running around, could be difficult if not dangerous. I had a couple of close calls trying to navigate the electric scooter through some of the lines in DCA, and almost tipped over a couple of times when I hit a cut-out section in the sidewalk.

[iceman559]

Personally, I think people are starting to take things way too far. For instance, the woman specifically said she has difficulty getting up from a seated position and so she can't use a wheelchair, yet she wants to go to Disneyland where 99% (maybe a slight exaggeration) of the rides require you to sit in fairly low seats? What next? Should Disney have to redesign every ride so that she can ride it?

This reminds me of the amputees who just recently sued Universal. I understand their condition. I do empathize with them. I have a friend who has so many rods in her back, she can't be jostled around. Does she go and complain that she can't ride anything at Disneyland? No, she just knows that she can't enjoy the park, so she stays away.

If the country keeps moving in this direction, within the next 20 years, I can see music and movies being banned because blind and deaf people can't enjoy them the way everyone else could.

Now, specifically regarding the Segways, I don't think it's a good idea. I get run into all the time by people in wheelchairs, strollers, etc. I can't even imagine having people zooming around in a Segway trying to weave through the crowds. Not to mention, on crowded days, I'd think it'd be pretty hard to keep a Segway stable enough to not run into someone else.

[quackinup]

The uneven and hilly areas wouldn't be a problem for a Segway. The crowds probably would be. If you hit a stationary object with a Segway they have a tendancy to shut down, causing the Segway and rider to fall over. I've watched several people do exactly this when coming too close to another rider or a planter while doing Segway tours in Chicago and DC. And that was in uncrowded areas. On a busy day at Disneyland it would probably happen frequently. While I personally would LOVE to scoot around Disneyland on a Segway, I can understand their concerns.

[monkeyboy]

Personally, I think people are starting to take things way too far. For instance, the woman specifically said she has difficulty getting up from a seated position and so she can't use a wheelchair, yet she wants to go to Disneyland where 99% (maybe a slight exaggeration) of the rides require you to sit in fairly low seats?

I was wondering that myself - - one of the comments on the article questioned that and someone remarked that maybe she just wanted to be able to spend the day with her daughter at the park while her daughter went on the rides; but if that were so, then she really wouldn't need the Segway. But if she were wanting to use the Segway to get around because she has trouble getting up from a seated position, then how is she going to get up off the rides, especially ones like Indiana Jones, Pirates, HM, etc. I did the park one time with a friend who was wheelchair bound (he had a spinal injury caused by several bales of hay falling on his head). He had no leg usage at all, but very strong chest and arms and it was still a challenge to get him in and out of rides.

[Drince88]

I wonder why they don't go with the option that they'd discussed in the lawsuit filed against WDW in about 2007 where the settlement was finally thrown out.

There were a number of MousePlanet updates on it, so I'm going to link a few of them for those that are interested. This was is from the June 09 update:

Remember that Segway lawsuit filed against Disney that was first dismissed and later resurrected before the parties came to a settlement agreement last December? It seems that it's not quite over yet.

Here's the update from when it was filed (October 15, 2007)

Here's the Feb 25, 2008 update that says it was dismissed


In 12/15/2008 update the basics for the settlement agreement were reached.

From June 8, 2009,

Disney demonstrated one of the 26 Electronic Standing Vehicles (ESV) that they have developed for the use of Segway riders in the parks. The vehicles resemble the existing Electronic Convenience Vehicles (ECV) but with a standing backrest instead of a seat and a longer steering column. The ESVs also travel at a slower speed than private Segways, and can be rented at the same cost as an ECV.

(This June 8th update has lots of links to further background, too)


Here's what I think was the final one, where the judge threw the whole thing out
10/12/2009 and Mark even says

The big issue for Disney is that advocates for the disabled are now free to file further lawsuits, as there is no longer a proposed class-action settlement that would prevent future suits.

But because the whole thing was thrown out, Disney didn't have to keep moving forward with the ESV option.

[wabby1]

Personally, I think people are starting to take things way too far. For instance, the woman specifically said she has difficulty getting up from a seated position and so she can't use a wheelchair, yet she wants to go to Disneyland where 99% (maybe a slight exaggeration) of the rides require you to sit in fairly low seats? What next? Should Disney have to redesign every ride so that she can ride it?

I'm an amputee, and have a prosthetic leg....I can walk, but for a very limited time....so I use a motorized scooter at the park, and have for the past 10 years. Disney has been very accomodating for people like me. I can see however where Segways wouldn't make sense....and for reasons you mentioned. The MAJORITY of attractions require you to sit...."REMAIN SEATED, PLEASE"....you hear that all over the park.

[currence]

My first reaction was that Segways are not considered medical devices, and thus should have no standing in an ADA claim. A little bit of internet research shows that this is not wholly the case anymore:

Wheelchairs and Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices

. The rule adopts a two-tiered approach to mobility devices, drawing distinctions between wheelchairs and "other power-driven mobility devices." "Other power-driven mobility devices" include a range of devices not designed for individuals with mobility impairments, such as the Segway PT, but which are often used by individuals with disabilities as their mobility device of choice. Wheelchairs (and other devices designed for use by people with mobility impairments) must be permitted in all areas open to pedestrian use. "Other power-driven mobility devices" must be permitted to be used unless the covered entity can demonstrate that the class of devices cannot be operated in accordance with legitimate safety requirements. The rule also lists factors to consider in making this determination. This approach accommodates both the legitimate business interests in the safe operation of a facility and the growing use of nontraditional mobilitity devices, such as the Segway PT by returning veterans with disabilities and other individuals with disabilities who are using these devices as their mobility aid of choice.

So Disney has to show legitimate safety requirements according to the following factors:

The NPRM proposed the following specific assessment factors: (1) The dimensions, weight, and operating speed of the mobility device in relation to a wheelchair; (2) the potential risk of harm to others by the operation of the mobility device; (3) the risk of harm to the environment or natural or cultural resources or conflict with Federal land management laws and regulations; and (4) the ability of the public entity to stow the mobility device when not in use, if requested by the user

they also noted:

Public entities also might consider grouping other power-driven mobility devices by type (e.g., EPAMDs, golf cars, gasoline-powered vehicles, and other devices). For example, an amusement park may determine that it is reasonable to allow individuals with disabilities to use EPAMDs in a variety of outdoor programs and activities, but that it would not be reasonable to allow the use of golf cars as mobility devices in similar circumstances. At the same time, the entity may address its concerns about factors such as space limitations by disallowing use of EPAMDs by members of the general public who do not have mobility disabilities.

[lovechows]

I would be more concerned about the safety issue of Segways--both for people riding them and for people who could be injured by them. (Don't we already have enough problems with all of the strollers--especially the double-strollers?). I know I'd end up either falling off, running into a tree or doing something really stupid if I rode one. Maybe when/if they build one with three wheels, I'll consider it.

[torquedork]

I would be more concerned about the safety issue of Segways--both for people riding them and for people who could be injured by them. (Don't we already have enough problems with all of the strollers--especially the double-strollers?).

You just had given me an image of Segway verses a Stroller. Especially if someone who’s operation a Segway and not paying attention to where they are going and plows into and knocks a stroller or a group of people mainly little kids being ran over by them. What's even worse is a CM or even Characters getting ran over by someone on a Segway.

[Blacksheep Uncle]

logic doesn't see to have much bearing things anymore does it?

having dodged Segways in a mall, IMO they are just too darn fast for a place like Disneyland. Even if the operator has 110% control of it, it would still be like someone running at a pretty good clip around the park...someone would end up seriously injured (and then probably suing Disney to boot)

[SigalTchelet]

I would be more concerned about the safety issue of Segways--both for people riding them and for people who could be injured by them. (Don't we already have enough problems with all of the strollers--especially the double-strollers?).

You just had given me an image of Segway verses a Stroller. Especially if someone who’s operation a Segway and not paying attention to where they are going and plows into and knocks a stroller or a group of people mainly little kids being ran over by them. What's even worse is a CM or even Characters getting ran over by someone on a Segway.

In the past, I have used an ecv at Disneyland. But now I have a power wheechair that has a long battery life. Just yesterday, I took it to the state fair and nearly got run into (about 2 ") from being hit by an ecv-I was going straight and he was coming toward me but looked like he was turning-he had his head looking to his left, but went straight. Good thing I slowed down and was able to stop in time! I cannot even imagine the Segways mixed in with the ECVs and strollers!

[Kuzcofan]

We took the Segway tour when they had it at DCA. Tons of fun, of course it was before the park opened so it was empty, and some people had trouble with them. (my wife being one of them). If they do allow them at Disneyland I would seriously look into buying one or renting one for when we go. We don't need them for any medical reasons, but sure would be fun riding around Disneyland and DCA or even Downtown Disney. I am sure more people would do the same too. The tour did control the speed of them too. They can be locked at a slower speed, though if they are allowed in Disneyland then they couldn't control the personally owned ones, though they could control the rented ones. I wonder how it would be going through the shops with one.

[Malcon10t]

Currently, Disneyland ECVs have a top speed of 3.5 mph. Outside ECVs have a top speed of 5mph. Segways have a top speed of 12.5 mph. This is an accident looking for a place to happen.

[torquedork]

In the past, I have used an ecv at Disneyland. But now I have a power wheechair that has a long battery life. Just yesterday, I took it to the state fair and nearly got run into (about 2 ") from being hit by an ecv-I was going straight and he was coming toward me but looked like he was turning-he had his head looking to his left, but went straight. Good thing I slowed down and was able to stop in time! I cannot even imagine the Segways mixed in with the ECVs and strollers!

I just remembered this where several of my friends who gone up to Disneyland and one of them had her foot ran over by a guy who was using a ecv who cut right in front of them including running over her foot and which this guy didn't even care or even flinch on what actually had happened.

[ALB2277]

Currently, Disneyland ECVs have a top speed of 3.5 mph. Outside ECVs have a top speed of 5mph. Segways have a top speed of 12.5 mph. This is an accident looking for a place to happen.

agreed this is just not a good idea pluss you add in kids being in the park whitch are harder to see even holding there perents hand some one comes zooming to pass and dose not see the 3 yearold walking with daddy smack there goes some ones day

[Drince88]

I think Disneyland is going to have issues if they don't at least propose the ESVs in their 'study' that they had agreed to in the WDW settlement (that later 'went away')

[newhdplayer]

Why a Segway? I would prefer a golf-cart, or a Rhino.

If Disney has to capitulate to this, that's next. How else would Susanne Eman get around?

[pixar]

Why a Segway? I would prefer a golf-cart, or a Rhino.

If Disney has to capitulate to this, that's next. How else would Susanne Eman get around?

If she reaches her "goal" I don't think she would fit through the entrance gates.

[Malcon10t]

Just imagine Adventureland with this...

[adriennek]

Just imagine Adventureland with this...

Oh great, Segways flying into children.

That's a GOOD idea...

[AllisonWonderland95]

Honestly, that is just ridiculous.

[carolinakid]

The crash at :54 made me laugh hysterically. Love to see THAT at DL or WDW! Even the chimp had the good sense to jump off in time!

[newhdplayer]

If you take this ADA stuff to the extreme, we'll have no more rides, no more shows, no more fireworks, no more anything that could conceivably "exclude" someone based on their "handicap", lowering that bar to the lowest common denominator. A flat surface where we all just sit and do nothing (but then again, that would exclude the "active" folks).

Common sense has left the building.