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Thread: Club 33 Membership and Benefits Changes for 2012

  1. #51
    It was a good day! Malcon10t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30YearClub33Member View Post
    and the new dues for new members are $40,000 initiation with $10,000 per year (that's the lowest priced new membership).
    My concern is this information is false. If this is false, how much of the rest of your post is false?
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  3. #52

    Your concerns are appreciated Malcon...maybe there are people who post here with less than integrity. So, some facts to help you and anyone else be clearer:
    When Sioux, who works at the club on the management/reservations team called to let us know about the changes, she was clear that there were going to be two new types of memberships (executive and platinum). At that point, she told us that those memberships would include admission into the new club at California Adventures, and that instead of "paying $40,000 initiation and $10,000 per year", we could just "upgrade for an additional $5,000 per year now as pre-existing members". The new bylaws which came out do not say the price for the new memberships in them (you just get your personal bill statement included in the packet), so the only true numbers that any older member has are what they were quoted by either Sioux or Caroline when they received the call.
    They have broken the agreements made with members in previous contracts and bylaws, and their new bylaws are onerous and unilateral, demonstrating both bad faith and business fraud. Despite all the attention and comments made about the club in this thread and its changing policies by people who are not members, this is a potential class action specifically by and for members. The comments here are not meant to spark arguments or debates about anything club or disneyland related: only to reach out to other members of the club who may be interested in this legal action. Please dont let the comments here start any fights about what is right or wrong about the membership, some of us just want to make sure our memberships are not raped more by Disney corporate. Again, if you are a member or know an interested member, please let us know at the email address above.


  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by 30YearClub33Member View Post
    At that point, she told us that those memberships would include admission into the new club at California Adventures, and that instead of "paying $40,000 initiation and $10,000 per year", we could just "upgrade for an additional $5,000 per year now as pre-existing members".
    I believe the point that Malcon10t was making is that your statement about the lowest membership level being $40k + $10k/yr is incorrect. No where (not even in YOUR post) is there any evidence to support that the gold membership is disappearing, only that there's more restrictions on it now. So, since that statement appears to be false, what else can anyone believe in your statement? If you have solid proof that the Platinum membership is going to be the lowest priced membership offered to new members, then why not share it?

    Also, you haven't provided any examples for how "they have broken the agreements made with members in previous contracts and bylaws". I get that you don't need to prove anything to us. I know I personally couldn't care whether you do or don't. But, don't expect to be able to drum up support when the only actual example you have given is baseless and has pretty much be proven untrue on other discussion boards that indicate the Gold membership will still be around.

    Besides, I don't know whether it's against MousePlanet's policies, but I think it's foolish and callow to basically spam a Disney message board about a class action lawsuit that could only possibly apply to 480 people in the WORLD. That means that only 0.00000007% of the world's population, .000001% of the United States, and .00001% of the population of California could be affected by your statements. I think you'd be a lot more likely to actually reach people who care by standing in NOS and approaching anyone that enters/leaves the club...

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30YearClub33Member View Post
    They have broken the agreements made with members in previous contracts and bylaws, and their new bylaws are onerous and unilateral, demonstrating both bad faith and business fraud.
    I'm curious, what are you asking for in damages through the class-action lawsuit? I hope your lawyer is working pro bono.


    Quote Originally Posted by 30YearClub33Member View Post
    some of us just want to make sure our memberships are not raped more by Disney corporate.
    You're talking about a luxury club at Disneyland, and I find it offensive that you would even begin to compare it to rape. Rape is a horrible, horrible, violent crime to happen to anyone and it destroys lives, and NOTHING compared to whatever distress you or any other Club member might be feeling because of the changes to the Club membership.
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  6. #55
    It was a good day! Malcon10t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    I believe the point that Malcon10t was making is that your statement about the lowest membership level being $40k + $10k/yr is incorrect. No where (not even in YOUR post) is there any evidence to support that the gold membership is disappearing, only that there's more restrictions on it now. So, since that statement appears to be false, what else can anyone believe in your statement? If you have solid proof that the Platinum membership is going to be the lowest priced membership offered to new members, then why not share it?
    Current memberships are Gold and Silver. They are being grandfathered into the program, but not being afforded the benefits of the platinum. I have been in contact with the club regarding new memberships, and gold is no longer offered, and platinum will be offered at $10K a year, with an initiation fee of $25K. They are getting back to me with the executive prices. There will no longer be "Corporate" accounts, they will now be called "Executive".
    Planning 3 trips at once...

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    You're talking about a luxury club at Disneyland, and I find it offensive that you would even begin to compare it to rape. Rape is a horrible, horrible, violent crime to happen to anyone and it destroys lives, and NOTHING compared to whatever distress you or any other Club member might be feeling because of the changes to the Club membership.
    Well said. In addition, I'd like to add that it's funny how someone that can afford to shell out that much money per year for an exclusive club at a resort is so quick to lash out. I have friends that would have to work four months just to be able to cover the $5,000 annual dues you are apparently paying, and yet you are going to sue Disney because you only get to bring 50 friends per year now? I'm sorry, but between that and what cstephens pointed out, you have lost all credibility to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t
    Current memberships are Gold and Silver. They are being grandfathered into the program, but not being afforded the benefits of the platinum. I have been in contact with the club regarding new memberships, and gold is no longer offered, and platinum will be offered at $10K a year, with an initiation fee of $25K. They are getting back to me with the executive prices. There will no longer be "Corporate" accounts, they will now be called "Executive".
    Okay, thank you for pointing that out. While that sucks for future members, I still don't see any grounds for a lawsuit against Disney for existing members. Even if new members can't sign up under the gold membership, they're not telling their current members they have no choice but to upgrade.

    So basically, what it comes down to is that Club 33 memberships are no longer Club 33 memberships. You pay a lot more, but get into two separate clubs in DLR, and if I'm not mistaken, you are also considered to be a Premiere AP holder, meaning you get free entry into all North American Disney parks, correct?

  8. #57
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    Going back to the original changes, I can say I do have some sympathy for those members who will be impacted by the decrease in the number of admissions allowed. Obviously not every member was using 50 admissions a year, but if you were, and that was your primary justification for purchasing the membership, this sucks.

    Without comment on the legal merits of the mentioned class action suit, I can see where members would consider this course of action if they feel there is no other way to get Disney to reconsider these changes. If Annual Passholders are disappointed with the new perks and benefits, they can just opt not to renew and there's no loss - if you like a future set of benefits, you can renew then. For Club 33 members, walking away means forfeiting the initiation fee; renewing means going back on the waiting list and paying the fee all over again. It's not as simple as saying, "if you don't like it, don't renew."

    Were I a member, I would also be VERY upset about having my admission privileges restricted at the same time Disney is using Club 33 as a venue for an increasing number of their own events. It's a open secret that the Backstage Magic tour on Adventures by Disney usually includes a meal at Club 33, and the D23 "Off the Map" tour is also likely to include dinner there. So if I'm a member, and I've just learned that D23 is going to take more people to Club 33 in one dinner than I'm allowed to bring for an entire year, I'm unhappy. Unhappy enough to sue? Perhaps.

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  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVP View Post
    It's a open secret that the Backstage Magic tour on Adventures by Disney usually includes a meal at Club 33
    Is that new? Cause it wasn't part of the tour when we took it.
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  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    Is that new? Cause it wasn't part of the tour when we took it.
    I don't know how new it is.
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  11. #60
    It was a good day! Malcon10t's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=AVP;1713047]
    And the dinners with D23 and Adventures, members are being told "It is not during hours the Club is open for the membership." This too is not going over well.

    And the Club is not open to membership during those hours probably because it's closed to accommodate D23 and Adventures. They are not lying--just being sly.

    Last edited by Toocherie; 02-20-2012 at 02:58 PM.
    Planning 3 trips at once...

  12. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by AVP View Post
    Were I a member, I would also be VERY upset about having my admission privileges restricted at the same time Disney is using Club 33 as a venue for an increasing number of their own events. It's a open secret that the Backstage Magic tour on Adventures by Disney usually includes a meal at Club 33, and the D23 "Off the Map" tour is also likely to include dinner there. So if I'm a member, and I've just learned that D23 is going to take more people to Club 33 in one dinner than I'm allowed to bring for an entire year, I'm unhappy. Unhappy enough to sue? Perhaps.
    But on the same hand, how many guests is each INDIVIDUAL D23 member allowed to bring? If I'm not mistaken, it was member + 1, correct? So basically, it's $535 ($250 * 2 + $35 D23 membership for one) for two people to attend. Throw in a single day's park ticket (since park admission was required and not included) and it's now $695 for two people to attend. Let's say a Gold Club 33 member is paying $5,000/yr (as implied by Club33Member's post above). Well, inviting those 50 people means each one cost $100 to attend. Assuming each person eats less than $185 worth of food, then they are paying less for the privilege for just ONE night. In addition, the 50 limit is only for complimentary park hoppers, no? They can bring more than 50 people, just anyone above 50 needs to have admission media or the member can purchase it for 20% off gate price. So the finally tallies are:

    D23 Member pays $347.50 per person for a maximum of two people to attend for ONE night.
    Current Club 33 Member pays $100 per person for up to 50 people throughout the year at Club 33 only, with each additional one costing $64 (20% off current one-day one-park ticket price)
    Future Club 33 Member pays $200 per person for up to 50 people throughout the year to either Club 33 or Club 1901, with each additional one costing $64

    This doesn't include the fact that the future Club 33 member will also enjoy the benefits of being a Premiere AP holder for themselves and up to four family members or friends, a $3750 value. If we take out that cost, that brings it down to just $125 per person up to 50.

    I fail to see how Club 33 members are getting the short end of the stick. Yeah, you're getting less now, but that less is still a pretty good deal. And if you don't bring in more than 50 people per year, then why does it matter anyway? The change doesn't affect them.

    To me, this is like an NHL player complaining about only making $1.4 million per year *cough*KyleTurris*cough*.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    But on the same hand, how many guests is each INDIVIDUAL D23 member allowed to bring?
    I don't think it's fair to compare a one-time visit from a D23 member and regular membership for a Club 33 member. Totally different things.



    I can understand why Club 33 members are upset about the changes. I just don't agree that the changes rise to the level of being actionable, even though I don't know what the membership paperwork says.



    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    To me, this is like an NHL player complaining about only making $1.4 million per year.
    I think that's an unfair comparison as well. $1.4 million per year is a lot to most people, but when you're talking about salaries for sports stars, singers, actors, and high-level executives, you can't compare them to everyday people. It's a different benchmark.
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  14. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    I don't think it's fair to compare a one-time visit from a D23 member and regular membership for a Club 33 member. Totally different things.
    That's kind of specifically my point. A D23 member pays 3.5x more than a current member and a little over twice what a future Club 33 member would pay to visit the club for a single day. It's not like the D23 guys are getting in for the same price or cheaper. A Club 33 membership gives you far more than just those 50 guests per year. And even if that's all you use, it's still a damn good deal, especially compared to the D23 example that was put forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    I think that's an unfair comparison as well. $1.4 million per year is a lot to most people, but when you're talking about salaries for sports stars, singers, actors, and high-level executives, you can't compare them to everyday people. It's a different benchmark.
    That's precisely my point. Compared to other NHL players, that's not all that much for sure. I agree with that. But, compared to everyone else, that's pretty damn high. While a Club 33 member may feel like they aren't getting much out of their $10k/year membership (or even $3,600/yr for Gold), they really are. Just the one perk they are complaining about is a good value in itself. Add in all of the other benefits for the Platinum members (up to 5 Premiere APs, access to both Club 33 and Club 1901, 20% discount on tickets for anyone over the 50th guest you bring, up to 5 VIP tours per year, etc.) and it's still a damn good deal.

    Just like a hockey player complaining that he's only making $1.4 million compared to the league average of roughly $2.5 mil/yr. That hockey player is still getting $1.4 million per year and that's still a lot.

  15. #64

    Oh, and I should specify: I completely understand and agree that it sucks that the memberships changed (added restrictions). However, I disagree with suing Disney for doing so unless it was specifically written into the contracts that they can't change those terms (and even then I think it'd be greedy to sue over this change).


  16. #65
    It was a good day! Malcon10t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    But on the same hand, how many guests is each INDIVIDUAL D23 member allowed to bring? If I'm not mistaken, it was member + 1, correct? So basically, it's $535 ($250 * 2 + $35 D23 membership for one) for two people to attend. Throw in a single day's park ticket (since park admission was required and not included) and it's now $695 for two people to attend.
    The "bone of contention" is Club 33 was supposed to be a private club for only members and their guests. Members are not even allowed to auction off seating for a dinner for charity, yet Disney can sell seats to whomever they wish. This is the complaint. Not the cost.
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  17. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    That's kind of specifically my point. A D23 member pays 3.5x more than a current member and a little over twice what a future Club 33 member would pay to visit the club for a single day.
    Did you also include the initiation fee? Cause that's included in the Club 33 member price as well, not just the annual fee.


    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    Compared to other NHL players, that's not all that much for sure. I agree with that. But, compared to everyone else, that's pretty damn high.
    But you have to compare to like things. Comparing to unlike things is like comparing oranges to hand grenades. That's why comparing the Club 33 member price to a D23 one-day special-event ticket doesn't work at all.
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  18. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    The "bone of contention" is Club 33 was supposed to be a private club for only members and their guests. Members are not even allowed to auction off seating for a dinner for charity, yet Disney can sell seats to whomever they wish. This is the complaint. Not the cost.
    I haven't gotten that at all from anyone yet. So far, it's all seemed to just be the fact that they are limited in the amount of people they bring. As far as this fact goes, that's very true. But on the other hand, if I understand your last post correctly, you said that the dinners that they are doing for the special events that Disney is selling seats for won't be during the club's normal operational hours. So, it's not quite the same as a member auctioning off a seat during normal business hours. Auctioning off the seat during normal hours is indeed getting rid of some of the "exclusivity" of Club 33. However, I don't think a D23 member going outside of normal business hours is harming the exclusivity any more than someone bringing non-members in. If anything, restricting the amount of people a person can bring each year would HELP make the club more exclusive. One of my friends who would never be able to afford a membership himself was able to get in when a friend invited him. Does that not remove some of the exclusivity of the club? I've seen discussions on numerous sites where people would try and set up meetings where a Club 33 member would bring a random person into the club so they could experience it. Doesn't this diminish the "exclusivity" of the club? Seems to me that if the exclusivity is the big thing here, then the changes Disney made would actually HELP that, not harm it, and would be appreciated by the members.

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens
    Did you also include the initiation fee? Cause that's included in the Club 33 member price as well, not just the annual fee.
    Fair enough. That's very true, I didn't count those numbers. For people who aren't members long, that will definitely be a very big jump in costs. Obviously, the longer you have the membership though, the lower those costs become.

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens
    But you have to compare to like things. Comparing to unlike things is like comparing oranges to hand grenades. That's why comparing the Club 33 member price to a D23 one-day special-event ticket doesn't work at all.
    I'm not comparing the experiences. I'm just saying what I feel. Hearing someone who can afford such an expensive club complain that they aren't allowed to bring unlimited people in for free is like hearing a hockey player complain about only making $1.4 million. That's just what I feel.

  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    I'm not comparing the experiences. I'm just saying what I feel. Hearing someone who can afford such an expensive club complain that they aren't allowed to bring unlimited people in for free is like hearing a hockey player complain about only making $1.4 million. That's just what I feel.
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    I'm not comparing the experiences. I'm just saying what I feel. Hearing someone who can afford such an expensive club complain that they aren't allowed to bring unlimited people in for free is like hearing a hockey player complain about only making $1.4 million. That's just what I feel.
    Iceman,

    The problem that Club 33 members have with the delinking free admission from dining at the club is that it runs counter to a business model that Club 33 has had in place for decades. This key policy of free admission for diners at Club 33 was a major factor that everyone considered when paying the hefty initiation fee with the intent of commencing a life long relationship with Club 33.

    The key factor outsiders do not understand is how Club 33's business model is quite different from other private clubs. Generally clubs are members only and guests do not visit a club unaccompanied without a member. In the case of Club 33, the original business model was that members, both individuals and corporate, would sponsor unaccompanied guests to dine at the club. Club 33 needs every table to be filled to maximize revenue. On any given day, I suspect 95% of the diners are actually unaccompanied guests. Here's the real rub though with the change in policy: For decades, Club 33 has linked the initiation fees and the meal price to the park admission fees based on the argument that dining at the club includes free admission. Over the last 15 years, the meal price at Club 33 has probably averaged about a 20% annual increase because of the tremendous increase in park admission prices. In the late 1990's when admission to Disneyland was still $35, the cost of a lunch buffet was roughly the same price at Club 33. Now that the admission price is about $100, the cost of a lunch buffet is also about $100 per person. Now a family of four having lunch at Club 33 with a beverage, tax and gratuity will likely spend $400-$500 for lunch. That price may be defensible with park admission. However, if the meal price no longer includes admission, the cost of the lunch buffet becomes absurd. Private clubs usually have meal prices that undercut commercial restaurants because the dues are paying for the staff, but now Disney Corporate is trying to bilk members with admission charges when the meal prices are already stratospheric. Again, for many readers of this post, the current Club 33 meal prices may seem reasonable. But that's the perspective of why the whole club on a given day is composed of unaccompanied guests. Yes, the prices are reasonable for a once-in-a-lifetime experience or in conjunction with park admission. Yet anyone who is paying Club 33 dues is not going to want to pay $500 for lunch every time he/she visits the park on an annual pass.

    Ultimately, I think you will agree that no one pays an initiation fee and annual dues without the intent of using a club membership. However, the current meal prices actually encourage members to justify their dues with unaccompanied guests because the prices make it virtually unaffordable for a member at any income level to use the club on a regular basis. It was one thing when the lunch price was $35 for members to come a couple times a month. Now that a family of four pays $450 for lunch, it discourages regular use of the facility. Wow, if someone is paying $10K a year with the new annual dues and taking a family of four for lunch twice a month, the family would be paying about $25K annually for two dozen lunches. Yes, there may be a small clique of high income VIPs who could afford such a proposition and not blink. Yet I would argue many who have high incomes have reached that level with smart business decisions. In that sense, the club's meal pricing discourages use and should make anyone contemplating such a membership to think twice, as membership benefits are reduced/eliminated and dues raised for no significant added value. Even someone willing to pay should be contemplating all the leisure alternatives available for $25K in annual spending. Ultimately, if Disney continues diluting benefits to encourage current Gold and Silver Club 33 members to resign, I question whether there are hundreds of people waiting in the wings to pay $10K annually for nothing more than access to a restaurant. Clearly Disney is trying to change the membership demographics because any sane person would only contemplate a $25K or higher initiation fee for a country club not a restaurant. For the $6K annual price difference between the Gold and Platinum membership, I doubt any current members will find that an attractive proposition. For anyone who thinks otherwise, I would say that it needs to be looked at from the perspective of a long term member-- the extra benefits may equate into extra dollar value but is any current member really going to want to pay an extra $60K over a 10 year period just to use the new 1901 lounge, the 4 passes and other extras?

    Clearly if Disney were trying to benefit members as they preach, they could eliminate the free passes and then simply drop the meal price down to $45 for lunch, a level that encourages frequent use among actual members. Alas, this would undermine their attempt in maximizing revenue as the club itself is now dependent on the higher pricing and the staff dependent on the $50 per table gratuities that derives from the current price point. I suspect many members who renew this year are nearing a breaking point where they will bale if benefits continue to decline and fees rise. The slap in the face this year was that Disney chose to raise current member Club 33 dues in a year where they significantly cut benefits and there was no rise in the entrance gate admission price. Until now, Club 33 has only raised dues in years when the cost of park admission rose.

    Ah for the good old days-- when I talk with some long-term Club 33 members, they say they went through a big jolt in 1984 prior to the olympics when Disney eliminated the A through E tickets and started offering unlimited rides to all the park guests. That equated into a large price jump at the admission gate which amounted to a significant rise in Club 33's meal prices. Up until that point when general admission prices minus the ride tickets was low, Club 33 really had restaurant menu pricing that made it affordable for members to use the facility on every park visit.
    Last edited by Royal Street; 02-22-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Street View Post
    The problem that Club 33 members have with the delinking free admission from dining at the club is that it runs counter to a business model that Club 33 has had in place for decades. This key policy of free admission for diners at Club 33 was a major factor that everyone considered when paying the hefty initiation fee with the intent of commencing a life long relationship with Club 33.
    Point being? One key factor about me attending ASU was that it was cheap but still gave me a good education. By the end of the year, I was paying almost as much as a private university (between fees and tuition increases, my yearly cost of attendance skyrocketed from just $4000 my first year to over $13000 my last year), but did I complain about that? No. I was pissed that Crow was misleading the media and everyone else in saying that ASU's tuition was one of the lowest in the nation because he tacked on fees instead of raising tuition to get around the board of regents...but that's it. I didn't complain about the actual cost. I was getting a great education from a great school. And if ASU wants to increase tuition, well then that's their thing. If it bothered me that much, I could always go to a cheaper school.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalStreet
    Club 33 needs every table to be filled to maximize revenue. On any given day, I suspect 95% of the diners are actually unaccompanied guests.
    You know, this is actually counter to what someone else said. Supposedly part of the allure was how exclusive Club 33 is/was and that Disney filling some of the tables with others cheapened that. Yet, according to you, 95% of people that go don't have a membership but are using someone else's? That seems to cheapen it a lot more than Disney having D23 members over for one night and a few other special events. And more in line with your point, doesn't Club 33 much have a reservation list out three months? Personally, I know I'd be angry if I purchased such an expensive membership and had to always be planning three months out in advance to avoid being beaten by "unaccompanied guests".

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalStreet
    Ultimately, I think you will agree that no one pays an initiation fee and annual dues without the intent of using a club membership. However, the current meal prices actually encourage members to justify their dues with unaccompanied guests because the prices make it virtually unaffordable for a member at any income level to use the club on a regular basis. It was one thing when the lunch price was $35 for members to come a couple times a month. Now that a family of four pays $450 for lunch, it discourages regular use of the facility. Wow, if someone is paying $10K a year with the new annual dues and taking a family of four for lunch twice a month, the family would be paying about $25K annually for two dozen lunches. Yes, there may be a small clique of high income VIPs who could afford such a proposition and not blink. Yet I would argue many who have high incomes have reached that level with smart business decisions. In that sense, the club's meal pricing discourages use and should make anyone contemplating such a membership to think twice, as membership benefits are reduced/eliminated and dues raised for no significant added value. Even someone willing to pay should be contemplating all the leisure alternatives available for $25K in annual spending. Ultimately, if Disney continues diluting benefits to encourage current Gold and Silver Club 33 members to resign, I question whether there are hundreds of people waiting in the wings to pay $10K annually for nothing more than access to a restaurant. Clearly Disney is trying to change the membership demographics because any sane person would only contemplate a $25K or higher initiation fee for a country club not a restaurant. For the $6K annual price difference between the Gold and Platinum membership, I doubt any current members will find that an attractive proposition. For anyone who thinks otherwise, I would say that it needs to be looked at from the perspective of a long term member-- the extra benefits may equate into extra dollar value but is any current member really going to want to pay an extra $60K over a 10 year period just to use the new 1901 lounge, the 4 passes and other extras?
    True, people get memberships to use them. No complaints there. What I have an issue with is saying people get the membership with the idea that they will let OTHERS use it instead of them. If you're auctioning off seats or what not for charity, great. That's awesome, great job, and I have no problems. But when you're saying that you can't afford to use the membership regularly and that you have to provide access to others, then I'd be second guessing getting the membership in the first place. Going along with the country club analogy, I'd get the membership if I planned to and COULD AFFORD to use it. I wouldn't get it to use it to play tennis once or twice a year and then let others use it the other 363-364 days per year. If I can't afford to use the membership MYSELF, then I shouldn't purchase the membership in the first place, regardless of how I justify it. If I'm more concerned with just playing tennis than belonging to an exclusive club, why should I pay gigantic prices just to say I belong to a club? I'd rather save money and go with the cheaper option of playing at the non-membership place down the street that just charges me when I use it (or which I can purchase a year-round pass if I so choose at still a MUCH cheaper price than the country club would charge).

    Also, I wouldn't say "any sane person would only contemplate a $25K or higher initiation fee for a country club". I don't know many sane people that would consider that prospect sane itself. I think if you ask MOST of America, they would love to be able to even have $25k in cash per year to spend on essentials, much less on something that I could do for free elsewhere. On a side note, one of my old friends had a membership to the local country club that's highly rated and what not, but when we went there, it was a worse experience than going to the local racquet club that only charges $25 for a few hours of play.

    Again, I feel I need to clarify, I'm not against being mad that Disney made changes. I know that sucks, I don't disagree with that. I know if I joined something for $3,600/yr + $10,000 one time, I'd be pissed if they told me I had to start paying $10,000 a year for less. By all means, be mad at Disney. But, unless it's written into your contract that the terms of your membership cannot be changed (which I'd highly doubt from such an experienced team like Disney legal), it's their right to do so. It's the fact that (apparently) Club 33 members are trying to have a class action suit brought against Disney for this change that I disagree with. To me, that's just rich people pissed that they are having to shell out a bit more cash (or not-so-rich people masquerading as rich people having to shell out a decent amount more cash). And no, I am not part of the Occupy camp. I'm all for people getting rich and spending it on whatever they want. What I'm against is rich people complaining that they have to pay a little more - just like I'm against dead beats who refuse to get jobs complain about the economic system and how they are poor when others are rich. People need to work hard and earn their money, and then be smart about how they spend it. If you spend it on a luxury that you can't afford, then you should seriously reconsider spending that money in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalStreet
    The slap in the face this year was that Disney chose to raise current member Club 33 dues in a year where they significantly cut benefits and there was no rise in the entrance gate admission price. Until now, Club 33 has only raised dues in years when the cost of park admission rose.
    Did they raise dues last year? If so, when? Also, who's to say they won't be increasing rates again this year in August? And unless they raised dues last year (which would negate the argument of it being a year with no ticket prices - we are only TWO MONTHS into the year), then this is still less than a year since they last increased ticket prices (June 2011).

  21. #70
    It was a good day! Malcon10t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post
    And more in line with your point, doesn't Club 33 much have a reservation list out three months? Personally, I know I'd be angry if I purchased such an expensive membership and had to always be planning three months out in advance to avoid being beaten by "unaccompanied guests".
    Members can book their tables 3 mos out. Unaccompanied members can be booked in 2 mos out. However, with the exception of Christmas, you can probably get in within 2 weeks. Some members are known to "drop in" for lunch. Now, can you arrange dinner for 10 at the last minute? Probably not. But, I have commented I was coming down the next day for a weekend, and been told "I got you a table for Sunday lunch!" (I think we were a party of 5.)

    The club only seats 65 or so in the main dining room, and 35 in the Trophy room. It really isn't very big.
    Planning 3 trips at once...

  22. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Members can book their tables 3 mos out. Unaccompanied members can be booked in 2 mos out. However, with the exception of Christmas, you can probably get in within 2 weeks. Some members are known to "drop in" for lunch. Now, can you arrange dinner for 10 at the last minute? Probably not. But, I have commented I was coming down the next day for a weekend, and been told "I got you a table for Sunday lunch!" (I think we were a party of 5.)

    The club only seats 65 or so in the main dining room, and 35 in the Trophy room. It really isn't very big.
    Hmm. If it's true that most of the time the members have no problems getting tables when they want to, then I can somewhat see the point about it. However, I still disagree with purchasing a membership knowing that you will have to basically "loan" it to others since you can't afford to use it yourself. Also, I still don't think it's grounds for a lawsuit (regardless of legal merits).

  23. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post

    You know, this is actually counter to what someone else said. Supposedly part of the allure was how exclusive Club 33 is/was and that Disney filling some of the tables with others cheapened that. Yet, according to you, 95% of people that go don't have a membership but are using someone else's? That seems to cheapen it a lot more than Disney having D23 members over for one night and a few other special events. And more in line with your point, doesn't Club 33 much have a reservation list out three months? Personally, I know I'd be angry if I purchased such an expensive membership and had to always be planning three months out in advance to avoid being beaten by "unaccompanied guests".

    (June 2011).
    Unlike most private clubs, Club 33's model since its inception was that corporate members and individuals would host unaccompanied guests at the club. That's why the dues are what they are and why there traditionally has been only 300-400 members. My guess is that most days there may be only one or two members at the club. Think about it, with all the capacity the club has, the actual members would need to use the club every other day of the year to fill the restaurant if it became members-only. While I am not in the club industry, my suspicion is that the club would need a couple thousand members to guarantee the seats are filled at every meal time. Then it would equate into disgruntled members who would be turned away on high demand days. As it stands now, most of the seats are filled with unaccompanied guests; with a small membership base, they can usually fit members in who want to dine. At my country club with 2400 members, there are always available tables in the restaurant when I desire to dine and like most clubs, food service is a money losing operation. The Club 33 model cannot afford tables to stand empty waiting for members who may or may not choose to use the facility and thus they have always been filled with unaccompanied guests. As it stands now, especially with the current economy, I would wager the waiting list will quickly disappear at the current $25K initiation and $10K annual dues. If the club became members-only, I question whether there would be sufficient demand, even at the gold membership level to find a couple thousand individuals willing to pay $3K annually for access to a restaurant. And then the more members there are, the absence of a waiting list, the less exclusive membership becomes and the less justification there is to pay the level of membership fees that Disney charges. After all, the club is charging meal prices equivalent to five star restaurants, but not offering anywhere near the level of service and amenities commensurate with the price. Thus, it is truly dependent on unaccompanied guests willing to pay any price for the cachet of a visit. For long-term members, the little tokens and mementos have fallen by the wayside: the old matchbooks with a party's embossed name accompanying a meal are gone, the keycard entry for members either broke or was taken out of service a few years ago, the showmanship they used to have when pouring beer has disappeared, the assistant managers who used to mingle with members on every visit are nowhere to be seen. The old souvenir ticket City Hall issued for a ride in the Presidential Car Lilly Belle are no more. The new benefits with so-called VIP tours and passes, hotel concierge access are not really exclusive. They are something that anyone can buy. Now Disney is also sending the message that there is less reason to join the club if you can simply pay $79 a year for a D23 membership and $500 for an activity that includes an after-hours meal. Club 33 has been a wonderful concept and it's execution into the 1990's was first rate. It is sad that through corporate attempts to cash in on this golden goose that the actual spirit of the club fades away. I know there are others on this thread who argue the Club 33 benefits, even at the $10K value remain an outstanding benefit. I'm curious, are there really a couple hundred people out there who would feel membership dues amounting to $400K in today's dollars over the next 40 years to be a good value for the benefits offered? My instinct tells me Disney corporate is strategizing next to eliminate the grandfathered gold and silver membership tiers. At that point, I would bet there will be a mass exodus of current members submitting resignations. In that sense, I think anyone on the waiting list will be offered membership in short order. At least those who pay the $25K will go into the relationship with eyes wide open and the expectation that there is a management ready to raise dues further to $15K or $20K per year at any time if they feel there are others out there willing to pay. Some on here will shrug this off as the law of supply and demand. Maybe Disney is in a privileged situation to get away with this. All I can say is that clubs in the U.S. would be out of business if people felt when they joined that there was no way to project future membership costs. Yes, costs and expenses rise. But Club 33 is the only club I know where the rates are being raised just because they can and the money is going out as profit rather than reinvested in improvements to facilities and benefits. When the goal is to push out current members to bring in others for added initiation fee profit and higher dues, it is no longer a bonafide club in a traditional sense.
    Last edited by Royal Street; 02-24-2012 at 07:33 AM.

  24. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Street View Post
    As it stands now, especially with the current economy, I would wager the waiting list will quickly disappear at the current $25K initiation and $10K annual dues. ... [snip to] ... I'm curious, are there really a couple hundred people out there who would feel membership dues amounting to $400K in today's dollars over the next 40 years to be a good value for the benefits offered? My instinct tells me Disney corporate is strategizing next to eliminate the grandfathered gold and silver membership tiers. At that point, I would bet there will be a mass exodus of current members submitting resignations. In that sense, I think anyone on the waiting list will be offered membership in short order.
    I doubt Disney wants the waiting list to disappear completely. It's like an exclusive nightclub, people want to be there because it's hard to get in.

    If they managed to get 5-10 memberships available to offer at the new higher rates, it would be interesting to see how quickly they burn through their waiting list. This is, no doubt, why they have reopened the list. But to keep the list manageable they need to fill their waiting list with people who are currently ready, willing, and able to pay the full fees. Not those who are in high school/college with dreams of having enough cash when their turn on the list finally comes up.

    Disney has the unmanageable task of trying to control their members in a high priced environment in a down economy. The higher they raise the prices, the more likely members are to seek "help" in paying the annual dues. And with the internet it becomes a lot easier to find people willing to help, even if they are risking their memberships, in order to pay the annual dues.

  25. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Street View Post
    When the goal is to push out current members to bring in others for added initiation fee profit and higher dues, it is no longer a bonafide club in a traditional sense.
    I'm only quoting this portion to prevent my post from looking gigantic, but I will respond to a few points.

    First, how do you know the goal for Disney is to push current members out for added initiation fee profit? All they really did was limit you to 50 free park admissions per year. They aren't limiting you to 50 guest per year or anything, just saying that the 51st+ need separate admission. Seems to me that if they REALLY wanted to push current members out, they would just simply cancel the current memberships and force you to bump up. But they aren't even doing that. If there's any goal in terms of ousting people, I'd think this is more geared towards ousting people from the waiting list, which, let's remember, is over 14 years long at this point.

    Second, it's true that without unaccompanied guests going, the members would need to go multiple times per week. I don't deny that. My only point of contention was that is that someone else, the one who was suing Disney I think, said that it was supposed to be an exclusive club and that Disney is doing these changes so they can sell more seats for other things or what not. Yet, they think nothing of the fact that the majority of people that attend the club during normal hours are not members and are there without members (as you say and I'm sure is the case). Why is it bad for Disney to bring people in outside of operating hours, but it's perfectly okay for someone else to get a membership and give reservations to whomever they please? Just seems like a double standard on that end.

    Third, I'm sure Disney has done their homework. They won't do something that will result in the club standing empty with no members. I'm sure Disney is indeed trying to drop some of the waiting list, but I'm sure they know how many would still be able to afford the new fees and are accounting for that.

    Fourth, there is always inflation as well. You can't expect Disney to keep their prices stagnant forever, or they would literally go out of business. If I told you that a ticket you bought back in 1995 cost just $33, it sounds great, right? In just 16 years, the cost of the ticket went from $33 to $70. Ripoff! That's a 112% increase! But wait, if we factor in inflation, that $33 ticket would be equivalent to $47 today. Not that big of a jump, but it still drops the increase from 112% to just 69%. Eventually, Disney will be forced to raise dues once again just to cover inflation. Expecting Disney to have stagnant prices for the duration of your membership when you're talking about a 40-year membership is a little absurd, IMO.

    Fifth, regarding the $400k for 40 years thing. No, I don't think that's worth it. But, I don't think $120,000 (assuming 40 years @ $3,000) is worth it either. But obviously you and others felt it was. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that would be perfectly willing to spend $400k over 40 years to be in the club. Heck, I'm sure if I was pulling in $300k/yr, then I'd be more than willing to shell out $10k just to say I'm a member even if I never used it.

    Now, that actually brings me to another thought. Are there any statistics on the number of active members? Does Disney kick you out if you never use your membership? If not, this could just be Disney's way of getting rid of the people who have a membership just to say they have one. Maybe only 50% of their members are active. Well, even if they till have every table filled each night, I doubt Disney would like seeing that only 200 of their 400 members are actually using the membership when there's a 14-year waiting list to get in.

  26. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman559 View Post

    I'm sure Disney has done their homework. They won't do something that will result in the club standing empty with no members. I'm sure Disney is indeed trying to drop some of the waiting list, but I'm sure they know how many would still be able to afford the new fees and are accounting for that.
    It will be interesting to see what occurs when Disney starts calling the wait list in March. Disney clearly did some homework but I question the validity of their assumptions. My wager is that they will receive few new member acceptances at a $35K price point and will in turn decimate a wait list that took many years to build. Once the cachet of a waiting list is gone, perhaps this will act as a tabula rasa that will prompt the club's management to consider how they can bring value back into the equation of a club membership. There are many low cost/ no cost things that could be done which the loyal membership would find of value as Disney fans.

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