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Thread: Fastpass Window Enforced?

  1. #201

    I hope the fast pass slip can accommodate putting the extra m back in the word, heh.


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  3. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Silvercat View Post
    But what on earth do they intend to do if the ride goes down for a while and people therefore miss their windows??
    Not hiring union maintenance workers would help a lot.
    Nick Andrews, DL misc74-76,85,91,12/11,1/13, WDW 78,83,85,1/92-8/92,95,99,04x8,5/11,2/12, 9/12,6/13,3/14,11/14,3/15,9/15,4/16,9/16,12/16,4/17,11/17,4/18,10/18,1/19,5/19,10/19, 2/20, 9/20, 1/21, DLP 3/20
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  4. #203

    That makes sense to me. You could also have the CM at the status board hold the universal FP tickets, and do the swap right there. This may not work in Epcot which has the automated displays, but it would work in the MK for sure.

    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
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  5. #204
    Registered User Silvercat's Avatar
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    Good replies guys, thanks! I feel much better informed now.

    Silvercat

    (Enjoy reading trip reports? Why not try my books, "Tiggerific Travels" - all 4 books available now as e-books)

  6. #205
    still romantic at heart
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    I haven't posted here in years, mostly because MP was inundated with some real trolls a few years ago and it left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. But I have from time to time read many, and this time wanted to weigh in a little.

    First of all the system... If a ride has an hourly capacity of 1k and a park is open for 10 hours then at the end of the day 10k rides will have been taken. regardless of how many FP's were issued or when people returned. the ratio of FP to ride capacity is much lower then you are thinking, it is in the area of 10-20 percent, not 50. rides differ based on how popular they are and what their capacity is. during any given window if everybody shows up the standby lines stays steady towards the number Disney predicts. if fewer FP holders return during that hour the standby time for that hour goes down, if all current time holders show up and some late returns show up the standby time does go up, but, and here is the important thing, by the end of the day 10k people will still have ridden the ride. Yes during the peak demand time the standby time may get to long. Disney can relieve this problem at the end of the day by closing off line access towards the end of the night when the standby line is longer then the park open time. but by the end of the day 10k people will have still ridden the ride.

    It's easy to say "be tough on the return times" when you have an AP and go to Dland once or twice a week. for people who make one trip in a life time and are caught up in events they weren't expecting it is very hollow. for those who say things like "if you can't return during the time then don't take the ticket". Not all visitors to the park are regulars and may not know that something will take to long, or get lost trying to re find a ride. Also you are in a sense saying that in a persons once in a life time visit they should not get to ride (pick ride) because when they found the FP machine finally at 3pm the return time is from 10 min after to 70 min after their dinner resv. that they made 180 days ago. they think they have a seating time for dinner but haven't figured out that it will still be 20+ min after their scheduled time when they get seated giving them now only 45 min to order eat pay and get back to that one ride they have been planning to ride.

    finally there is the no excuse plan. let me give you a real life scenario, yes this actually happened. We boarded the WDW RR railroad at frontierland with intentions to ride it around once and get back to our Splash FP time window that started in 10 min. we figured that a trip around the MK takes about 20 so we should hit the window near the front. after passing SM the train slowed then came to a stop at a red light. after sitting for a few minutes the conductor finally came on and said we were delayed because the train at the main street station hadn't left yet. 20 min later we began moving pulling into the main street station over 40 min after we left Frontierland. the we pulled out and promptly stopped behind adventure land for another long period of time when we finally arrived in the station over an hour after we left. upon leaving I asked the conductor about the delay and he stated that the train in front had 4 wheel chairs, the maximum amount and that all boarded at the MS station and three got off here. by the time we made our way back down to Splash our window was over by 5 min. Yes I would have been very unhappy if the CM turned us away for missing our window when it wasn't our fault, who would have thought a trip around the MK would take over an hour.

    another time while we were on our way to use our FP for ST at the studios a very excited little girl promptly fell and cut up both knees. we had to take her to the opposite end of the park to get some band-aids and by the time we returned our time had passed again.

    So despite the arguments to strictly enforce a return time it is a bad idea. how do you explain to a father that his crying little girl can't ride Pooh because the lady that picked up the check at lunch was just to slow.

    So you make the cut off time hard, no exceptions. then you turn a guy away because his watch differs by Disney's by 3 min, and he didn't think to set it to official mouse time when he entered the park.

    now Disney wants park guests to make FP plans before they even leave home. and then when a guest arrives for that once in a lifetime trip a rain shower closes down TT oh well maybe in the next lifetime. they can't wait in standby today because they still have FP times for Maelstrom, Soaring, and MS, plus dinner res at Chef's De France, and tickets to see Donny Osmond in the candle light procession. but wait Disney offers to let them return later in the day. well now we are back to the problem that this started with they come back in someone else's window and boom there goes the standby, only now the total capacity has been reduced by one hour and people who were in the standby line when it started raining are really pissed because after waiting for 40min for the ride a well meaning CM tells them the ride may or may not come back depending on the weather.

    Sorry to ramble on so, but I think this is a really bad idea, to much of this stuff and Universal Orlando will bet busier and busier. Having said all this I can understand the need for a cutoff or more likely a warning label that said something "warning guests returning after the allotted time may not be allowed to ride" then having each ride's manager develop a plan for instance "if the FP or standby lines exceeds so many minutes late returnees will be turned away, they can try again later and if the ride times are within parameters they will be allowed on".

    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  7. #206

    Under the new rules about FPs - and in your examples: being 'late' by 5 minutes because of the WDW railroad delays doesn't fall outside the parameters for accepting the FP; a child with band-aids on both knees after a visit to 1st aid is unlikely to be turned away by a FP CM.

    A FP is not a appointment ticket to get on an attraction without much of a wait. A FP is to save you time standing in line. Nevertheless, it is never in Disney's best interest to turn away guests that appear to have legitimate reasons for being reasonably late outside their window.

    “When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.” - Roy Disney

  8. #207
    still romantic at heart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barberella View Post
    Under the new rules about FPs - and in your examples: being 'late' by 5 minutes because of the WDW railroad delays doesn't fall outside the parameters for accepting the FP; a child with band-aids on both knees after a visit to 1st aid is unlikely to be turned away by a FP CM.

    A FP is not a appointment ticket to get on an attraction without much of a wait. A FP is to save you time standing in line. Nevertheless, it is never in Disney's best interest to turn away guests that appear to have legitimate reasons for being reasonably late outside their window.
    agreed, but there are some here that are advocating a no excuse policy. and not all legitimate reasons are apparent or even prove-able, and can still be an hour or more late. any policy that doesn't allow flexibility is a bad policy. That is why I advocate a warning label and a procedure that allows for late returns but doesn't guarantee them. Disney also tracks things like average hourly wait times and knows when they peak and cycles in FP usage. another option would be to reduce the number of FP tickets given out for times when peak return times.
    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  9. #208

    It could very well be that being more flexible about return times is already an 'unwritten' policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx View Post
    ....another option would be to reduce the number of FP tickets given out for times when peak return times.
    I was just at WDW earlier this month, and before that, in early December 2011. It is my opinion - and I stress that it's my opinion - that there were less FPs being handed out per hour in March, than in the previous December.
    “When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.” - Roy Disney

  10. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx View Post
    ... any policy that doesn't allow flexibility is a bad policy.
    While I agree with you in principle, the problem comes in with the fact that people will lie. Yup, hard to believe, but folks will flat out lie about the reason for their delay. And your system makes each FP CM a judge on what is allowed and what isn't. The only way I could see this working is if, as in your example when a train is delayed unreasonably, the call goes out on the radio to all FP CMs that there may be folks that are late because of the train. Otherwise people could make up any ol' story and the CM would have to let them in, thus rewarding people for bad behavior.
    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
    - James Taylor

  11. #210

    I don't believe it's a problem because Disney has made changes to the issuing of FPs in unannounced ways. Can't say for sure, can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I believe that they are handing out fewer FPs per hour.

    “When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.” - Roy Disney

  12. #211
    still romantic at heart
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    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    While I agree with you in principle, the problem comes in with the fact that people will lie. Yup, hard to believe, but folks will flat out lie about the reason for their delay. And your system makes each FP CM a judge on what is allowed and what isn't. The only way I could see this working is if, as in your example when a train is delayed unreasonably, the call goes out on the radio to all FP CMs that there may be folks that are late because of the train. Otherwise people could make up any ol' story and the CM would have to let them in, thus rewarding people for bad behavior.
    Yep people lie, and it isn't any CM's job to make the call as to who is honest. Any policy that does not allow flexibility is doomed to failure and bad publicity. Disney can save someones vacation by being flexible and the can ruin someones vacation by being rigid. But Disney cannot ruin anybodies vacation by being flexible. That is why I advocate a system that is flexible and requires no judgment calls. A warning label about possibly being denied using the FP and a specific set of metrics such as length of standby line and FP line to determine flexibility.
    Let's face it the vast majority of people who do things like collect FP tickets all day long with the intentions of using them later like after parade are at the least frequent visitors, and they are playing the system. But if certain rides are inundated by late returns after a parade And most of these late returns are turned away because of the set metrics then these regulars who are abusing the system will learn what not to do. bottom line a hard and fast system that is both fair and flexible. "you're late, we can accomodate you right now as we are not to busy" or "I'm sorry you missed your return time, at the moment we have too many other guests waiting in line to accommodate you right now, please check back in an hour and we will try and accommodate you then".
    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  13. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx
    ...That is why I advocate a system that is flexible and requires no judgment calls. A warning label about possibly being denied using the FP and a specific set of metrics such as length of standby line and FP line to determine flexibility....
    I think you are pretty much on target. There are warning signs about possibly being denied use of the FP and I believe there are - unannounced - flexibility parameters of using the FP.

    I do think you are spot on in your statement that
    another option would be to reduce the number of FP tickets given out
    I believe that that is already happening and you have been astute enough to figure out how that would impact the system.
    “When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.” - Roy Disney

  14. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx View Post
    Any policy that does not allow flexibility is doomed to failure and bad publicity.
    I'm not sure I agree with this statement. At the front gate, the system is totally inflexible - no one can talk their way into admission into the park. You either have a ticket or you don't get in.

    "you're late, we can accomodate you right now as we are not to busy" or "I'm sorry you missed your return time, at the moment we have too many other guests waiting in line to accommodate you right now, please check back in an hour and we will try and accommodate you then".
    I actually don't have a problem with this type of flexibility. It's still somewhat hard line, in that the CM doesn't really have to make a judgement call - the guest missed the time on the ticket, but we'll be nice guys and try to get you in some time in the near future. The end result is that people might be bit once or twice before learning that they need to be on time.
    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
    - James Taylor

  15. #214

    Signs are being placed at attractions to emphasize the new enforcement policy.

    (From Studioscentral.com)


  16. #215
    still romantic at heart
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    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with this statement. At the front gate, the system is totally inflexible - no one can talk their way into admission into the park. You either have a ticket or you don't get in.
    .
    this is apples to oranges. Disney policy has always been that proper ticket media is required to enter any park, but past practice has been not only to allow, but in many cases encourage late returns. Also very few arguments can be made for not having tickets to get into a park that would fall under bad PR. in fact letting people into the park without paying can be, if made known, bad publicity as paying guests get mad at that. but it has happened, there was a case right here on MP several years ago, right before I took my hiatus, of a guy who talked his way into the MK. I can't remember his name, he is one of the people that drove me from this place, but he was making a trip to WDW and bragged that he groaned and complained to guest services, taking his complaint higher and higher until he found a mid level manager that gave him and his family free tickets to the Halloween party. his chief complaint, he already bought tickets to WDW he shouldn't be forced to pay more money when the park was "clearly open".

    On the other hand there are too many legitimate reasons, some Disney's fault, some the guests fault that result in someone missing their time.

    Not bad PR headline:guests sues Disney because they left tickets at home and Disney didn't believe them

    Bad PR headline: Dying child refused last chance to meet a Disney princess because she missed her fast past return time.
    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  17. #216

    There is a simple solution to some of the missed fastpass window issues. If a ride, dinner, bus, monorail, first-aid trip, or other "Disney" reason is delayed or broken down a simple note from a cast member saying we are sorry that they are late it was our fault. By this I mean another fastpass ticket type thing that a cast member could hand out at the end of the ride or whatever. I know other things happen that has nothing to do with Disney, but I think that anything within the park could be handled that way, and I also think that if it is so very, very important that you get on that ride and you missed your window then either it's stand-by line or I think that a trip to Town Hall or Guest Services will probably get you on the ride with an expired fastpass. I think that with smiles and polite reasoning they will grant you a wish or two.

    _____________
    Jenni

  18. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx View Post
    I haven't posted here in years, mostly because MP was inundated with some real trolls a few years ago and it left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. But I have from time to time read many, and this time wanted to weigh in a little.
    Derail~ just wanted to say welcome back efoxx. from time to time I have wondered what happened to you and wfoxx hope all is well with you. end derail

  19. #218
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    I will even take Jenni's thought a step further...
    Have CM's at TS eateries and other rides within the same park as the one where you hold the fastpass, stamp "validate" the guests FP if they run late for some reason, which would extend it a certain amount of time.

    ie: You have a Soarin' FP and your meal at Le Cellier runs about 20 mins past the allotted time on the FP. The CM would stamp it and give it a new return time of say, 20-30 mins from that time, allowing the guests enough time to go directly to the attraction.

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  20. #219
    still romantic at heart
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennibell View Post
    There is a simple solution to some of the missed fastpass window issues... a simple note from a cast member saying we are sorry that they are late it was our fault.
    This would put a lot of pressure on a lot of CM's who might be very busy already if they have a problem they are dealing with. then there is the question of who is at fault, plus what about circumstances where Disney is at fault but nothing really went wrong, such as bad crowd control after a parade made it impossible for a family of four including their stroller to make it up MS after the parade to get their Pooh FP time. in addition Leads at most attractions and restaurants already have a FP card that they can fill out, we have been given these several times over the years due to various problems. in fact one time after a particular event we were given a stack of blank ones all we had to do was either check off the ride box, or fill out the name of the attraction if it wasn't printed on it already.

    Quote Originally Posted by rph13
    just wanted to say welcome back efoxx. from time to time I have wondered what happened to you and wfoxx hope all is well with you.
    Thanks. We are fine, I have actually read many threads over the years here, but after the insults we suffered by a small handful here I decided the negatives far out weighed to positives. what got me to post on this thread was 9 pages of decent discussion. back in the day this would have deteriorated into name calling by page 3.
    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  21. #220

    It has become fairly common in recent years for CMs to hand out FPs good for any ride all day if you are stuck on a ride for an inordinate amount of time or seated late for an ADR. This will probably become standard practice now that the end time is being enforced and should cover any missed FP windows that are Disney’s fault vs. the guests’.

    Our first couple of trips to DW, there weren’t FPs, so we view them as a nice, free perk. It’s great if you can take advantage of them, but it’s not the end of the world if you can’t. I’m sure my attitude would be different if I had to pay for a FP, but I just don’t feel I have a right to get very upset if I’m not able to take advantage of something that’s free.

    We didn’t even know until very recently that ending times on FPs were not enforced and missed our window more than once (although very rarely; it’s just not that difficult to return during the window). It was frustrating and disappointing, but we (including our kids) got over it in about 30 seconds. It didn’t even occur to us to confront a CM and try to get an exception. Although in retrospect, if we had, we would have figured out much earlier that end times weren’t enforced. The situation is not that different from encountering a very long standby line when FPs are gone for the day. We are disappointed but we get over it. After all, we COULD still ride if we were willing to get in the long standy line—it’s our personal choice not to.

    Yes, we go to DW more often than the average person (so I can’t speak to the “trip of a lifetime” point), but not on a regular basis. We scrimp and save for our trips and get to go once every 2-3 years on average. So it is not insignificant if we can’t get on a favorite ride during one of our visits. But it’s just never happened. Even if we miss a FP window, we manage to get on the ride some other way, like getting another FP, checking back later to see if the line has gone down, or making a slight change in our touring plans so that we return to a park one morning and shorten a visit to another park, etc. Missing a FP window should not have much of an impact on the quality of a Disney vacation, in my opinion.


  22. #221

    ^nice post and I really like that last paragraph mxrapu.

    That just about sums it up and Disney is quite astute in how FPs were being used, and how they will be used in the future. I was there on March 7 and more thought has gone into this revised FP process than meets the eye.

    I even, at one point, held my FP up 4 minutes early - according to the clock at the 1st FP checkpoint - and said to the CM something to the effect of 'close enough?' and he smiled and said something like 'close enough' and let me in.

    “When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.” - Roy Disney

  23. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by efoxx View Post
    ... what got me to post on this thread was 9 pages of decent discussion. back in the day this would have deteriorated into name calling by page 3.
    Oh you're just a stupid ol' stupidhead!!!!







    <hee hee hee>
    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
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  24. #223

    Whoa! Moderator reminder

    Please move on from discussion of the past etc. etc. and stick to the topic of Fastpass enforcement. Thank you.


  25. #224
    still romantic at heart
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan4d_steph View Post
    Please move on from discussion of the past etc. etc. and stick to the topic of Fastpass enforcement. Thank you.
    Thanks for the warm reception
    Grateful for all God has done for me, and for having Wfoxx by my side.

  26. #225
    Self-proclaimed Diz nut TinaMouse's Avatar
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    It will help to have the signage visible. We'll just have to see how this goes. Disney isn't in the business of ticking people off. We don't like change. So this kind of a paradigm shift is hard on us. Eventually, people will get it and it won't be front page news anymore is my guess.

    Working hard for that next WDW trip!

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