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Thread: Fastpass Window Enforced?

  1. #1
    Self-proclaimed Diz nut TinaMouse's Avatar
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    Fastpass Window Enforced?

    Interesting nugget in today's WDW Park Update (August 29, 2011). Mark Reports that,


    According to our partners over at TouringPlans.com, Walt Disney World has begun a test to crack down on the ending times of Fastpass return periods. It has been standard practice thatif Fastpass tickets werereturned past the end of their designated return window on the same dayguests could still enter the attraction. This was done to avoid penalizing guests for various late-making issues such as not wanting to wake sleeping children, transportation delays, or getting stuck in a restaurant or by a storm.

    This new test, however, entails sporadic enforcement of the time window and no longer advising guests that they can return beyond the end of the window in case of extenuating circumstances.

    TouringPlans.com's R.A. Pederson speculates that this may be related to the upcoming Next Generation initiative in the parks. MousePlanet's Jeff Kober has previously written about the "Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom" interactive game coming to the Magic Kingdom park. It is uncertain at this time, however, how the game might be related to the enforcement of Fastpass end times.
    This is interesting. My first response was, "HEY! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" But upon reflection, why not? Otherwise, why have an end time? I suppose in theory, it would allow for shorter wait times after you return to use your fastpass, right?

    Comments?
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  3. #2

    In a way I understand them wanting to enforce the time limits, but that makes it kind of hard for the guests sometimes as well. I will just have to be more aware of the times on the fastpasses and try to adjust what I am doing elsewhere in the area and hope I can get to the ride before the time expires.

    Shelley
    DLR '80, '05, '06, '07(x2), '09, '14, '15, '16; WDW '97, '10, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16; DCL '13, '16


  4. #3

    I'm actually fine with it. FastPass is a computerized operation meant to control wait times. It can do what it's meant to do much more efficiently if people have to pay more attention to return times.

    I would like to see a reasonable 'grace period' of at least 1 hour. For example if your return time window is 12:09 to 1:09 PM then you really have at least until 2:09 PM to show up - you know, in case you're held up at lunch or something.

    But basically I'm fine with it.


  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberella View Post
    I would like to see a reasonable 'grace period' of at least 1 hour. For example if your return time window is 12:09 to 1:09 PM then you really have at least until 2:09 PM to show up - you know, in case you're held up at lunch or something.
    I agree with this. That would be helpful.
    Shelley
    DLR '80, '05, '06, '07(x2), '09, '14, '15, '16; WDW '97, '10, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16; DCL '13, '16


  6. #5

    I don't see this effecting wait times (except in cases of large tour groups redeeming their FPs at the same time). A FP is like saving your place in line, if you come back later than ut says all you are doing is letting people "ahead of you" in line. If they do enforce end times they need to make the return window larger. If I go to get a FP for TSMM and the return time is when I have an ADR for lunch then I couldn't get one and would have to come back later and try to get one with a return window that fits in my plans? Between shows and meals? With something like a 2-3 hour window it still allows the guest some flexibility. Maybe a shorter window on busier days and a longer one on less crowded days.

    Shannon
    Mommy to 3 Princesses and 1 Prince
    Miss M(16), J(13) and R(10), and Mr. N(9)

  7. #6
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    Ive been one of those people who really try to use the FP system as it was designed and not try to use them way beyond their stated times. To elaborate, I think there should be a reasonable window of lead time after the time on the ticket in case you get stuck on something. But at the same time, people who try to use them 6 hours later are obviously abusing the system. And the thing is - I think many people do that and dont admit it.

    So, for me, this is not that big of a deal. And when looking at it even closer, it will help those using FP's even more so.

    Prior to this announcement, there have been reports of late tickets not being accepted at Soarin' from time to time. And for those who have ever waited 45 mins in a FP line for Soarin' can probably understand why.

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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tdelaney_98 View Post
    Otherwise, why have an end time? I suppose in theory, it would allow for shorter wait times after you return to use your fastpass, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberella View Post
    FastPass is a computerized operation meant to control wait times. It can do what it's meant to do much more efficiently if people have to pay more attention to return times.

    I would like to see a reasonable 'grace period' of at least 1 hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    Maybe a shorter window on busier days and a longer one on less crowded days.
    The only problem that I have with this is increased confusion. Right now, Fastpasses have a return window printed and the tourists who have not done their homework may toss fastpasses because the window has expired or not get one because they know they have food plans for the return time.

    People who have done their homework often collect the fastpasses for later in the night, when the lines are typically longer and the fastpasses are all gone for the day. I have seen (at Disneyland) fastpass return lines as long or longer than the standby right after parades/fireworks as people have saved their fastpasses for one last ride before leaving. I don't know if it is ever quite that bad at WDW.

    Enforcement of the return window would definitely change the way we collect fastpasses. At our home resort at Disneyland we collect fastpasses whenever we go by a machine and our time to collect is open. If we have passes left over at the end of the night we may give them away if we are near the attraction, or we just toss them/take them home. We did the same basic thing at WDW though I think we were slightly better about getting back to the rides to go on them before we left.

    The ride that it seems most unfair to enforce a shortened window at is Toy Story Mania. It seems everyone queues in the morning and after the mad dash you really don't have much control as to your return time. It would get ridiculous if people had to start hovering at the fastpass machines when they got to the front of the fastpass line because the current return time was too close to their lunch/dinner plans.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    The only problem that I have with this is increased confusion. Right now, Fastpasses have a return window printed and the tourists who have not done their homework may toss fastpasses because the window has expired or not get one because they know they have food plans for the return time....
    And that's exactly what this anticipated/proposed change to FastPasses would eliminate. Because if this change took place, "the tourists...." should "toss fastpasses because the window has expired or not get one because they know they have food plans for the return time".

  10. #9
    Ready for MA World Explorers! Drince88's Avatar
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    The thing that bothers me is the 'sporadic enforcement'. Do, or don't do - no sporadic (to paraphrase Yoda badly).

    I think TSMM and Soarin are the only ones that get HUGE lines that by the time you get to the front, your return time could be greatly different than the return time when you got into line, at least first thing in the morning.

    Cathy

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberella View Post
    And that's exactly what this anticipated/proposed change to FastPasses would eliminate. Because if this change took place, "the tourists...." should "toss fastpasses because the window has expired or not get one because they know they have food plans for the return time".
    The one hour window is too narrow if they want to enforce times. And I think an hour leeway can be inconsistent with CMs. At least a 2 hour window could accommodate conflicts with dining, parades, shows etc.
    Shannon
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  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    The one hour window is too narrow if they want to enforce times. And I think an hour leeway can be inconsistent with CMs. At least a 2 hour window could accommodate conflicts with dining, parades, shows etc.
    Agreed. Actually I posted very early in this thread that "I would like to see a reasonable 'grace period' of at least 1 hour. For example if your return time window is 12:09 to 1:09 PM then you really have at least until 2:09 PM to show up - you know, in case you're held up at lunch or something."

    I think phrasing it along the lines of a grace period (and printed as such on the fastpass) would encourage most people to try to return during the 1 hour window, but allow some flexibility for some of the situations you outlined.

  13. #12

    I've thought for a long time that the end times should be enforced. And I don't think the one hour window is at all too narrow. If someone has a dining reservation for 7p, then they shouldn't get a FP with a return time of 7:30pm to 8:30pm. There's just no way that they'd make that tight of a time. And it's peoples' own choice - if they choose to dally and watch a parade or do something else that takes up or even MIGHT take up time, then they need to be aware that the consequence of that is that they will probably miss their FP time.

    But I do agree with Cathy - either do it or don't. Sporadic enforcement is just going to confuse people and further tick 'em off.

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  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    I've thought for a long time that the end times should be enforced. And I don't think the one hour window is at all too narrow. If someone has a dining reservation for 7p, then they shouldn't get a FP with a return time of 7:30pm to 8:30pm. There's just no way that they'd make that tight of a time. And it's peoples' own choice - if they choose to dally and watch a parade or do something else that takes up or even MIGHT take up time, then they need to be aware that the consequence of that is that they will probably miss their FP time.

    But I do agree with Cathy - either do it or don't. Sporadic enforcement is just going to confuse people and further tick 'em off.
    Absolutely agreed. We have stuck to our return fast pass times, as was intended, for all our three trips. We had daily ADR's and parade plans etc too. Not quite sure why we should accommodate the less organised. The math is pretty obvious. If they enforce return times they will be able to plan the most efficient system possible. But also agreed, either do it or don't. Inconsistency will lead to lots of cross guests, which is not a great idea for Disney to pursue.
     

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  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydooby View Post
    Absolutely agreed. We have stuck to our return fast pass times, as was intended, for all our three trips. We had daily ADR's and parade plans etc too. Not quite sure why we should accommodate the less organised. The math is pretty obvious. If they enforce return times they will be able to plan the most efficient system possible. But also agreed, either do it or don't. Inconsistency will lead to lots of cross guests, which is not a great idea for Disney to pursue.

    At this point I would argue that not returning during the window is as much strategy as being unorganized. But it does lead to a two-tier system for those who understand that the return times don't matter and behave accordingly, and those who play by the book.

    I think that Disney should keep a grace period if they decide to enforce the return time. It's just not very Disney to turn someone away who arrived at the ticket checker 2 minutes past their return time. But if you have an unannounced (but consistently enforced) grace period of even 30 minutes, I have no problem with them turning away someone who tried to enter the line 31 minutes late. That should accommodate the typical excuses of stopping to use the bathroom, on another ride, slow food service, etc. One hour would be even easier for the ticket checkers from a math perspective. And "you should have been here an hour ago, I'm sorry this is no longer valid" is a lot easier to swallow than just being a few minutes late.

    But please, Disney, tell me what the rules are and whether you will be enforcing them. I can't optimize my behavior unless I know what you are doing.

  16. #15
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    I think the thing that Disney will have the hardest time with is the fact that they have already set a real challenging precedence in not enforcing FP return windows. If they dont do it in a consistent manner, they are asking for trouble.

    Im thinking they should continue to make the return window 1 hour in duration and state in big lettering "FP INVALID AFTER <TIME> on <DATE>" (The time/day would be the absolute latest time that it can be used.) That gives extra time and it is communicated clearly as to the valid use window.

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  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    It's just not very Disney to turn someone away who arrived at the ticket checker 2 minutes past their return time.
    Well, they enforce the start time right to the minute. So I don't see a problem with enforcing the end time as well. To do anything else will just cause problems for the CMs that have to police the line ("Hey, you let them go in 2 minutes late, and we're only 3 minutes late!").
    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
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  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GusMan View Post
    I think the thing that Disney will have the hardest time with is the fact that they have already set a real challenging precedence in not enforcing FP return windows. If they dont do it in a consistent manner, they are asking for trouble.

    Im thinking they should continue to make the return window 1 hour in duration and state in big lettering "FP INVALID AFTER <TIME> on <DATE>" (The time/day would be the absolute latest time that it can be used.) That gives extra time and it is communicated clearly as to the valid use window.
    ^ This.

  19. #18

    If it's consistent and expressed up front then I have no problem abiding by the rules. I see problems arising for those that take afternoon breaks. They try to get a FP but it's return time is during nap time, and by the time they return after nap the FPs are gone. Yes they chose to go back for naps but it unfortunate that those that have small kids are possibly prevented from getting a FP.

    And I'd REALLY like to know when and where this testing is taking place because I'll be in the parks Sunday.

    Shannon
    Mommy to 3 Princesses and 1 Prince
    Miss M(16), J(13) and R(10), and Mr. N(9)

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    I see problems arising for those that take afternoon breaks.
    Well, this has always been an issue when going for a FP. For instance, I'll spend a morning at say DAK, go back to my room for a nap, and then go back to Epcot for the evening. If the only FP available for Everest is from 2pm to 3pm, then I just won't get a pass. This happens all the time at Epcot, when Soarin' FPs for times that would work for me are just not available. I don't think FP has to be a system that is perfect for every person. If you want the best FPs, then you get them first thing in the morning. And if the time available doesn't work for you, then come back an hour later and hope for a better time. I still think enforcing the end time is the only way to make the system truly fair, and to keep abuse from clogging the system later in the day.
    The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
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  21. #20

    I don't see how coming later clogs up anything. Your FP is saving your place in line. If you come back later all you are doing is letting those in the stand by and FP line ahead of you in line until you get there.

    Shannon
    Mommy to 3 Princesses and 1 Prince
    Miss M(16), J(13) and R(10), and Mr. N(9)

  22. #21
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    I see problems arising for those that take afternoon breaks. They try to get a FP but it's return time is during nap time, and by the time they return after nap the FPs are gone. Yes they chose to go back for naps but it unfortunate that those that have small kids are possibly prevented from getting a FP.
    (Not directed at you 3P1P) This is one of those cases where if Disney tried to accommodate everyone, they could successfully accommodate no one. In essence, guests knowing how a process works allows guests to adapt their touring plans accordingly. I think the more you go to WDW, the more likely it is to have to change how you tour because of something that Disney changed over time. This is possibly one of those changes.
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  23. #22
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    I don't see how coming later clogs up anything. Your FP is saving your place in line. If you come back later all you are doing is letting those in the stand by and FP line ahead of you in line until you get there.
    While I can see your point, if you go off of the basic description of how it works, its not really accurate when you consider its not just you and your group "holding" your place in line - its many doing the same thing.

    Example...
    Lets say a FP line for an attraction can move 100 people per hour and the FP machines spreads those tickets over a period of time.
    If 25% of those people decide to go at a later time, you eventually cause a backup within the FP line that is not expected at a particular point in time.

    Over an 8 hr day, that can make a bigger difference that you would think. Some may benefit from you not being in line on time, but eventually, the line has the potential of growing larger than expected. Instead of waiting 5 mins in a FP line, you may wait 15 minutes because you have more than it can absorb.

    Its similar to when you see that Test Track has a 30 minute wait and all of a sudden a group of 100 tourists from Brazil gets into line just before you. That wait time displayed is no longer valid and usually jumps up very quickly. (Ok, thats an inflated example, but one that I think many can relate to. )
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  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    Well, they enforce the start time right to the minute. So I don't see a problem with enforcing the end time as well. To do anything else will just cause problems for the CMs that have to police the line ("Hey, you let them go in 2 minutes late, and we're only 3 minutes late!").
    The big difference is if you are a few minutes too early, you can stand to the side until your time arrives. You've wasted a few minutes waiting but you still get to go on the ride. If you are "just" a few minutes too late, to be directed to the stand-by line seems a bit harsh. I expect this is why Disney made the initial policy decision to not enforce the end time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    I don't see how coming later clogs up anything. Your FP is saving your place in line. If you come back later all you are doing is letting those in the stand by and FP line ahead of you in line until you get there.
    I mostly agree, however at the end of parades/fireworks if everyone has saved their FP throughout the day and try to use them all at once, it could create a logistical nightmare. I don't know how sophisticated the computer system is but they can presumably compensate for some of this by having more fastpasses available early in the day (when no one outside their window will be using them) and fewer fastpasses later in the day (when the line will have to accommodate both current FP holders as well as expired FP holders.

    Disney will also need to come up with a procedure for what to do when a ride breaks down during the FP window.

  25. #24
    Read Everything-Assume Nothing GusMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    Disney will also need to come up with a procedure for what to do when a ride breaks down during the FP window.
    They usually either hand out FP type tickets saying that you can come back later, or even the next day. Had this happen for several attractions over the past few years.
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  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GusMan View Post
    They usually either hand out FP type tickets saying that you can come back later, or even the next day. Had this happen for several attractions over the past few years.
    Really? I've had this happen when I'm on the ride but never when I merely had a fastpass to go on the ride. I've always been told that if the ride reopens I can use my fastpass then, even though it may have expired.

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