Shuttle/Taxi/Bus Question [Service animals in for-hire transportation]

[Gilesmt]

We are staying at Shades of Green so we will not be able to use magical express. I researched the companies one recommended by SOG and one recommended by mouseplanet QuickSilver, they both gave me the same answer NO ANIMAL.

Now I know, this may be moved to disabilities but I wanted feedback from other customers what other services are out there.

The animal in question is a service animal, I do not think I am taking my quide dog, but my ex will be taking his dog for hearing impaired. (Before I get a lot of questions, reason I will not take my dog, I will be going for a new dog in March, my dogs hips are starting to go and I don't want him in any pain and I have 5 sighted people).

Anyway, when we go to California we get the same thing with the no dogs in the car. I know the law states that they can not say that, and every time I end up having to fight someone about it. I just get so tired fighting.

Any suggestions.

[Quicksilver]

We are staying at Shades of Green so we will not be able to use magical express. I researched the companies one recommended by SOG and one recommended by mouseplanet QuickSilver, they both gave me the same answer NO ANIMAL.

Now I know, this may be moved to disabilities but I wanted feedback from other customers what other services are out there.

The animal in question is a service animal, I do not think I am taking my quide dog, but my ex will be taking his dog for hearing impaired. (Before I get a lot of questions, reason I will not take my dog, I will be going for a new dog in March, my dogs hips are starting to go and I don't want him in any pain and I have 5 sighted people).

Anyway, when we go to California we get the same thing with the no dogs in the car. I know the law states that they can not say that, and every time I end up having to fight someone about it. I just get so tired fighting.

Any suggestions.

Hi,

We do understand the frustration but we are not breaking any laws. Below a copy of the email I've just sent you:

Sorry, it is NOT against the law, we are not a TAXI company... The law states any "public accommodation", which includes planes, trains, and public transport (including taxi cabs) can not deny service. Again, we are not a public transportation company and thus can choose not to transport any animals.
Limo services are not a public transportation like taxis are considered...We are a privately owned company and service people that do not want to use a regular taxi cab.

Again, we are sorry it is difficult for you to find a company that can transport your dog, but if you choose to take a taxi they will take you; private limo services are not obligated by law to transport anyone, let alone animals...

Please understand as a private company I must protect ALL my clients, and I do have far more people with allergies than people with service dogs...

Regards,

Gregory Nicolas.

[Quicksilver]

Below emails sent back and forth between me and Gilesmt:


It's funny how everyone interprets the law as they see fit. We are NOT a public transportation company!!!! We decide whom we'll take reservations from, with or without dogs. Read this, it might help you to be more informed when making fruitless threats (I underlined the pertinent information).
"Public transportation is subject to federal and state laws, which vary by state. Public transportation refers to all service involved in the transportation of passengers for hire by means of street railway, elevated railway, subway, underground railroad, motor vehicles, or other means of conveyance generally associated with or developed for mass surface or sub-surface transportation of the public, but does not include any service involved in transportation by taxicab, airport limousine, or industrial bus"

Now the definition from the dictionary (public transportation) : "vehicles for public use: a network of passenger vehicles for use by the public running on set routes, usually at set times and charging set fares"

Another one : "
Main Entry: public transportation
Part of Speech: n
Definition: any form of transportation that charge set fares, run fixed routes, and are available to the public such as buses, subways, ferries, and trains "

As you can see it is pretty obvious we do not run a public transportation company. I do not have cars in any particular route, set times and etc... My company is at 100% prearranged reservations, we do not have a stand at the airport or any resorts, parks and etc...

Now, as I'm not a person whom takes threats very well there is one for you. If my company is in any shape or form hurt by your accusations, if I lose even one client due to your misinformation I'll have you sued for slander; rest assured, I'm not here working non stop to have my company badmouthed by you or anyone else with false accusations!!!!

Gregory Nicolas.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: [Name removed by MousePad moderators]
To: Quicksilver Tours & Transportation
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Quicksilver Transportation Orlando Feedback


Thank you, if I wanted to I could now go and file a suit against you. First you denied me services, then you give me your interpretation of a state law, which you interpret wrong and do not say in full. That would give me all that I need to go and say you are a company that discriminates against persons with disability. Instead I will use your own words to let people make there own decision to boycott your company.

Just to let you know.

Federal law protects service animals and gives them the right to accompany the disabled in public transportation, which you claim to be providing a service to the public in the form of transportation. The ADA law can be found in Section 36.104 of Title 3.

Access
Under the ADA, service dogs must be allowed, with their owners, into any public place or business that serves the public, including, but not limited to, restaurants, taxis, hotels, stores and theaters. In addition, the service dog and owner must be allowed anywhere within the premises that they allow customers or the general public. However, the owner of a business does not have to provide any special accommodations for the service dog, besides allowing it in his business.

If you are not a business that service the general public than I am very sorry but you need to fix all your adds that state that you do serve the general public.

To go further Florida state law states that a service animal can accompany a disabled handler in all public accoomodations and on all puble transportation. No extra charge can be leveled because of the dog's presence. Public accomodations include hotels, restaurants, stores, public buildings. places of resort, amusement, and assemblage, and any other place to which the general public is invited. Public transportation includes traings, buses, airplanes, boats, taxis, and ANY OTHER COMMON CARRIERS OR MODES OF CONVEYANCE OFFERED TO PUBLIC USE.

Violation is a misdermeanor.

Again if you are not providing accommodations to the general public and are only giving service to friends, and you do not have a business licence, or a carrier licence or whatever licence you need to transport the general public (which I will be calling the State of Florida to find out on Monday), than please as soon as possible take down your web sites and stop advertising.


Your argument would be like a resteraunt that is own by a mom and pa would not have to allow the disabled in because they are private, the law does not give you that right just because you are a private owner, they will only allow you out if it causes an undo hardship to you or your business and a trained service animal is not going to cause you any undo hardship.

It is up to you to know the law and make sure you are following it. But I will make sure people know that you discriminate against disabled. And in this case disabled VETS, I will contact Shade of Green to make sure they know. And I will post it on all three boards that I use for Disney information. And I will give them your words if they want proof, your own words.

[Quicksilver]

another follow up...Sorry to all of you but I must defend my company:

----- Original Message -----
From: [Name removed by MousePad moderators]
To: Quicksilver Tours & Transportation
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Quicksilver Transportation Orlando Feedback


Slander means making a false statement. I am not making a false statement, you are denying me access to a business for the simple fact that you do not allow service animals. I know the law is on my side, so it is not slander if I tell people that you according to your own words, writing in your email, you are denying me assess because you do not allow animals in your business. Your business happens to be cars, vans and limos. The law states you can not deny me access to any part of your business that you allow general public in. My words are not slander if I tell people and show them your email stating that you are denying me access.

I will be telling everyone and anyone, I already called Shades of Green. Now if you would like my address to sue me than ask me for it. Or have your lawyer ask me for it. I will be calling BBB, DMV and the State of Florida.

I also, personally do not take it lightly that my husband went to war and was hurt fighting for your rights and then you deny him access to your business. I believe all VETS AND DISABLED need to boycott you until you check into the law and read it correctly.

Please do not email me again, unless it is your lawyer asking for my address, I will happily send it and counter sue you for your ignorance.

-------------------------------------------

Ignorance is reading facts and still fighting the fact we ARE NOT A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!!!! Leave us alone and we'll do the same. I transport hundreds of Vets and people in the military and have a very good relationship with the Shades of Green for many years. I do not take the fact people had suffered for my freedoms lightly, but again it is my right not to transport dogs that will give a lot more than one person grief by having allergic attacks in my vehicles. I'm protecting the majority even though I'd like to be able to have a car just for people without allergies and/or one that would only take people with animals....
You are clearly having fun wasting both our times with all this nonsense and the worst is the way you state the fact your husband is a vet only proves you use that to attack people that don't agree with you or to make them feel bad. Well, I do feel bad for him, not quite a lot for you though. You are a mean and revengeful person; with or without a dog you would never ride in one of my vehicles...And BTW, I have the right not only to deny service with dogs, but I can simply deny service to anyone I choose not to transport. It is my prerogative.

[Gilesmt]

I hope you noticed that this man decided to keep this post going, defending his post. He left out any emails where he threatened me, called members of Disboard names and other things.

Rather than fight here, I am going to sue this man for not knowing the laws and for the things he stating in his letters that got more and more threatening and harrassing. I think most of you can read thou it, he is not defending a business because if he was, he would be following the law.

Here is a copy of some ADA, you will see any and I say any business doing business with the public has to provide service animals access to the business. It is federal law. I will take it up with ADA and Florida as it is a misdemeanor for denying access.

I found another wonderful company that emailed me due to this mans insults and denial, he is willing to take his company no questions asked and no problems, Thank you for reading this, and thank you for seeing thru this mans denial to public access for the disabled.

Anyway, here is the laws according to ADA from there web site and there is many many more out there, this man is not following laws. Wonder why he is banned from another site and why the GOV agency will not endorse him.

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section





COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT
SERVICE ANIMALS IN PLACES OF BUSINESS



1. Q: What are the laws that apply to my business?


A: Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. The ADA requires these businesses to allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed.


2. Q: What is a service animal?


A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.


Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:


_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.

_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.

_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.

A service animal is not a pet.


3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?


A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.


4. Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?


A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.


5. Q: I have always had a clearly posted "no pets" policy at my establishment. Do I still have to allow service animals in?


A: Yes. A service animal is not a pet. The ADA requires you to modify your "no pets" policy to allow the use of a service animal by a person with a disability. This does not mean you must abandon your "no pets" policy altogether but simply that you must make an exception to your general rule for service animals.


6. Q: My county health department has told me that only a guide dog has to be admitted. If I follow those regulations, am I violating the ADA?


A: Yes, if you refuse to admit any other type of service animal on the basis of local health department regulations or other state or local laws. The ADA provides greater protection for individuals with disabilities and so it takes priority over the local or state laws or regulations.


7. Q: Can I charge a maintenance or cleaning fee for customers who bring service animals into my business?


A: No. Neither a deposit nor a surcharge may be imposed on an individual with a disability as a condition to allowing a service animal to accompany the individual with a disability, even if deposits are routinely required for pets. However, a public accommodation may charge its customers with disabilities if a service animal causes damage so long as it is the regular practice of the entity to charge non-disabled customers for the same types of damages. For example, a hotel can charge a guest with a disability for the cost of repairing or cleaning furniture damaged by a service animal if it is the hotel's policy to charge when non-disabled guests cause such damage.


8. Q: I operate a private taxicab and I don't want animals in my taxi; they smell, shed hair and sometimes have "accidents." Am I violating the ADA if I refuse to pick up someone with a service animal?


A: Yes. Taxicab companies may not refuse to provide services to individuals with disabilities. Private taxicab companies are also prohibited from charging higher fares or fees for transporting individuals with disabilities and their service animals than they charge to other persons for the same or equivalent service.



9. Q: Am I responsible for the animal while the person with a disability is in my business?


A: No. The care or supervision of a service animal is solely the responsibility of his or her owner. You are not required to provide care or food or a special location for the animal.


10. Q: What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control?


A: You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded. You may not make assumptions, however, about how a particular animal is likely to behave based on your past experience with other animals. Each situation must be considered individually.


Although a public accommodation may exclude any service animal that is out of control, it should give the individual with a disability who uses the service animal the option of continuing to enjoy its goods and services without having the service animal on the premises.


11. Q: Can I exclude an animal that doesn't really seem dangerous but is disruptive to my business?


A: There may be a few circumstances when a public accommodation is not required to accommodate a service animal--that is, when doing so would result in a fundamental alteration to the nature of the business. Generally, this is not likely to occur in restaurants, hotels, retail stores, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities. But when it does, for example, when a dog barks during a movie, the animal can be excluded.



If you have further questions about service animals or other requirements of the ADA, you may call the U.S. Department of Justice's toll-free ADA Information Line at 800-514-0301 (voice) or 800-514-0383 (TDD).






July 1996
Reproduction of this document is encouraged.

[Gilesmt]

Sorry I must state this man did not show you the email that states, he denies access for the service animal, wonder why he refused this.

Also in reading, I do not see where he denies being a business that services the general public, in my emails, I stated that if he was not a business that served the general public than yes he does not have to provide me services. But as you can see from ADA it states that all private business, it does not name every business, but it gives you general for those who are to provide the services. It clearly states Taxicabs, he states he is not a taxi service. He then shows you that he does not have fixed routes, and fixed prices, but if you go on his web site, he has fixed routes and fares to Magic Kingdom, other disney resorts, other off site disney resorts, to and from the airport. He has fixed fares from US and SW. So his arguement will not hold up, he is a car service company that provides service to the general public for fixed fares. He said he goes by reservation only, anytime I have ever called a private owned cab company I have to call them and make a reservation since they do not sit outside my house and wait for me to need them or outside the store. A taxi service company is a privately owned company that provides car service from one spot to another with a reservation, some cities do not need reservation, where I live it I did not call for a cab and make a reservation I may be standing outside for 2 years before one goes by, maybe not in Orlando I do not know.

My point, is that ADA was set up to protect disabled, ADA states every business providing service to the general public must provide services to the disabled and that is for service animals to be allowed in cars.

Others may deny us services, this is the first that would not listen to the law, and also this is the only one who only gave you what he wanted and not the whole truth, if anyone would like to see the emails where he stated he denied us services only because we had a service dog please email me, anyone who would like to see his threatening emails that he did not post please let me know. He states he is wording it for verbatim but he is taking out a lot of his threats and his real actions.

Anyone wishing to see the email from SOG stating they do not endorse this company please just ask me for it, I will send it to you, anyone wishing to see the emails where he bad mouths another disney site please ask me, I will privately send them to anyone wishing to have them.

[AVP]

I am closing this thread. While the question about whether service animals are allowed in a private limo service is an appropriate subject for discussion, MousePad is not a place for businesses and customers to work out their disagreements. Further, posting private communication like e-mail is a violation of the MousePad Community Policies.

Quicksilver and Gilesmt, please take your dispute off of MousePad.

AVP
- for the moderators