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Thread: Solving Disneyland’s Annual Passholder, Attendance and Food Problems

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post

    Although attendance at Disneyland was up 15% in the period from July 1 through August 30, revenues and profits were down compared to last year.

    How should Disneyland solve these problems?
    So Cal AP holders were blocked out for the entire month of July and the first half of August. It actually seems that you are making the argument that the park is more profitable when the So Cal AP holders are allowed in. Maybe the summer tourists aren't purchasing as many add ons (food, merchandise etc) as the AP holders do.
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  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MikenTra View Post
    .
    It is just hard to believe that Disneyland's profits went down last year considering that they keep raising their prices and more people keep showing up. The other thing to keep in mind is that the SoCal passes are already blocked out on the busiest days!
    I don't believe that the OP stated that Disneyland's profits went down last year. He stated that Disney theme parks profits were down. The only period that he cited that Disneyland ran in the red were Jul and Aug.
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  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by MikenTra View Post
    I understand that you are trying to keep this simple but I have a couple of comments. First this only counts for the revenue from admission. I don't have anything to back this up but I have to believe that the revenue that a SoCal AP would bring in from food, beverages, parking, souvenirs, etc. during their 6 -10 visits a year would outweigh the revenue from the tourists buying the $72 one day pass. Second the majority of out of state tourist aren't going to be buying a $72 one day pass and anybody can find discounted parkhopper tickets. It just seems to me that when it is all said and done it would just about be a wash.

    It is just hard to believe that Disneyland's profits went down last year considering that they keep raising their prices and more people keep showing up. The other thing to keep in mind is that the SoCal passes are already blocked out on the busiest days!
    The months of July August and September 2009 are the months that are in question. So Cal passes had access in part of August and most of September. Most out-of-state residents like myself (Premium Pass) do not get the So Cal marketing tickets although this year ,the 5 for 3 tickets were offered to all. The tell-tale sign will be in October, Nov and Dec 2009. If profits are down at the theme parks then the AP program problems need to be addressed
    Last edited by JoeCool; 11-19-2009 at 04:51 PM. Reason: typo

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus T Firefly View Post
    So Cal AP holders were blocked out for the entire month of July and the first half of August. It actually seems that you are making the argument that the park is more profitable when the So Cal AP holders are allowed in. Maybe the summer tourists aren't purchasing as many add ons (food, merchandise etc) as the AP holders do.
    The months are July August and September. So Cal passes had access for most of the month of September. Tourists usually are gone by Labor Day...I suspect tourists stayed less time at DL than previus trips because of the economy. The resuts for Oct., Nov and Dec 2009 will provide all the information that we can analyze about DL theme park profits and attendance.
    Last edited by JoeCool; 11-19-2009 at 04:50 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    The months are July August and September. So Cal passes had access for most of the month of September. Tourists usually are gone by Labor Day...I suspect tourists stayed less time at DL than previus trips because of the economy. The resuts for Oct., Nov and Dec 2009 will provide all the information that we can analyze about DL theme park profits and attendance.
    I'm a little confused, because in your original post the time period you cited was July 1 to Aug 30. But OK, from July 1 to Sept 30 attendance at DL parks increased by 15%. However, for the same time period, attendance at WDW parks actually decreased by 3%. Seems like the folks in Florida aren't pulling their fair share of the weight. Could be So Cal AP holders are responsible for keeping all of the US Disney parks afloat.
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  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus T Firefly View Post
    I'm a little confused, because in your original post the time period you cited was July 1 to Aug 30. But OK, from July 1 to Sept 30 attendance at DL parks increased by 15%. However, for the same time period, attendance at WDW parks actually decreased by 3%. Seems like the folks in Florida aren't pulling their fair share of the weight. Could be So Cal AP holders are responsible for keeping all of the US Disney parks afloat.
    My mistake - it should be Sept. 30 in the original post. I will change. Attendance in Florida is always higher than DL.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    My mistake - it should be Sept. 30 in the original post. I will change. Attendance in Florida is always higher than DL.

    OK you know me let's re think that last comment.... Florida is always higher.
    first saying the word Always means that its a actual FACT and I highly doubt that this comment is fact. so are you saying Walt Disney Worlds attendance is higher, are you matching kingdom to kingdom??

    you can't compare guests from one park to guests from several parks thats just not accurate analysis.

    and if you are matching guest from all parks then hands down california wins... cause we have Knotts, Disneyland. magic mountain. seaworld. lego land. hmmm what other tourist trap we have AND
    we have beautiful weather every single day!!! so no closures

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SUNSHINE4565 View Post
    OK you know me let's re think that last comment.... Florida is always higher.
    first saying the word Always means that its a actual FACT and I highly doubt that this comment is fact. so are you saying Walt Disney Worlds attendance is higher, are you matching kingdom to kingdom??
    I'm assuming that Joe is saying that the attendance in WDW's four theme parks and two water parks combined is higher than DL's two theme parks combined. Makes sense.
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  10. #59
    Registered User parymoppins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUNSHINE4565 View Post
    OK you know me let's re think that last comment.... Florida is always higher.
    first saying the word Always means that its a actual FACT and I highly doubt that this comment is fact.[/B]
    It is a fact:
    Magic Kingdom-17,063,000 VS Disneyland-14,721,000

    Quote Originally Posted by SUNSHINE4565 View Post
    and if you are matching guest from all parks then hands down california wins... [/B]
    nope
    Disney World's four parks = 47,078,000
    So.Cal's five biggest parks = 32,562,000

    http://www.teaconnect.org/etea/TEAERA2008.pdf

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SUNSHINE4565 View Post
    OK you know me let's re think that last comment.... Florida is always higher.
    first saying the word Always means that its a actual FACT and I highly doubt that this comment is fact. so are you saying Walt Disney Worlds attendance is higher, are you matching kingdom to kingdom??

    you can't compare guests from one park to guests from several parks thats just not accurate analysis.

    and if you are matching guest from all parks then hands down california wins... cause we have Knotts, Disneyland. magic mountain. seaworld. lego land. hmmm what other tourist trap we have AND
    we have beautiful weather every single day!!! so no closures
    You are incorrect.
    See the link for 2008 attendance

    http://www.coastergrotto.com/theme-park-attendance.jsp

    Magic Kingdom had 17.0 million guests while Dl had 14.3 million. The other WDW parks do not outdraw DL but outdraw DCA. Even your statement about So Cal theme parks is wrong. So Cal does not have beautiful weather everyday. I remember when I lived in LA there was rain and fog - the majority of the days were nice. Orlando has good weather. WDW has been closed for hurricanes but is usually open 365 days a year - barring strong weather like hurricanes.

    What I was referring to was that WDW parks have higher attendance than DL...that is a fact.

  12. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus T Firefly View Post
    I'm assuming that Joe is saying that the attendance in WDW's four theme parks and two water parks combined is higher than DL's two theme parks combined. Makes sense.
    Yes that is what I meant. WDW Magic Kingdom has higher attendance than DL. Combined all the WDW parks outdraw DL.

  13. #62
    I'm going to Disneyland!
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    My family has the so calif annual pass, we spend lots of money everytime we go on food and merchandise. we have been there 5 times this year. If we did not have the so calif passes disney would never get our money cause it's too expensive to even go for the day, so we rarely never went until we got our passes.

    The premium and delux passes are too expensive, if they did away with the so. cal passes then we would never be able to go cause we could not afford to. to spend $100 for a 1 day park admission is too insane.. we would deffinitly be changint to knotts if that was the case cause we would be able to go 2/3 times a year for what disneyland costs.


  14. #63
    "Gouging" is a four-letter word The Mouse Is Back's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginap73 View Post
    My family has the so calif annual pass, we spend lots of money everytime we go on food and merchandise. we have been there 5 times this year. If we did not have the so calif passes disney would never get our money cause it's too expensive to even go for the day, so we rarely never went until we got our passes.

    The premium and delux passes are too expensive, if they did away with the so. cal passes then we would never be able to go cause we could not afford to. to spend $100 for a 1 day park admission is too insane.. we would deffinitly be changint to knotts if that was the case cause we would be able to go 2/3 times a year for what disneyland costs.
    This doesn't even make sense. If you're spending LOTS of money every time you go, you clearly have enough cash flow to purchase ticket media other than SoCal passes - just don't spend LOTS of money inside the Park. Simple. There are dozens of reasonably priced dining options within walking distance of DLR, and a very open policy toward guests bringing their own food items into the Parks. Large coolers can be stored in lockers. You can have a picnic instead of spending LOTS of money on the ridiculously overpriced (and rapidly declining in quality and size) food items sold inside.

    It seems to me the most pushback and balking about the idea of doing away with the two SoCal AP levels are people who accuse the proponents of that idea of being big ol' meanies who don't want anyone else to have any fun and don't want Disney to make any money. If the monthly-pay option continues, you can still get your APs. JEEZ.

    The OP is correct. Crowds are a problem. There are several threads that have addressed this, especially during the past year with the birthday gift card fiasco adding exponentially to the number of SoCals. A lot of us locals who used to go frequently don't go at all, with the exception of a couple of visits at holiday times to see the decorations, overlays, and special entertainment. Many of us have also decided to not renew our APs.

    Imagine being a first-time guest at the Parks, someone who has saved up for the trip of a lifetime and will unlikely ever be able to return - and being greeted with crowds so large that you don't get to do even half of what you wanted to? Something as basic as getting on rides? It's even worse for vacationers who've been to other Disney parks where attendance has been better managed. Would you make DLR your destination again?

    And please don't bring up the tired "planning" argument. Travel companies don't aggregate or hand out information on attendance levels to prospective customers (and I'm 100% sure Disney's travel operation knows the info but avoids it like the plague). The forums are good, but the majority of guests at Disney parks have no idea they even exist. It isn't like brochures say "before you go on your trip, visit Mousepad!!!". As if!

    As for the "right" to have a SoCal AP (which seems to be the right being discussed here)...seriously???

    Let's just get some balance back, how's that? Disney makes money, guests have a good time, some people get offended because their rights have been infringed. And all is well.


    Ally
    Last edited by The Mouse Is Back; 11-20-2009 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Spelling.

  15. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mouse Is Back View Post
    Let's just get some balance back, how's that? Disney makes money, guests have a good time, some people get offended because their rights have been infringed. And all is well.
    BRAVO!! Well Said Ally!! Wonderful, great words!!
    Last edited by stan4d_steph; 11-21-2009 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Edit quoted text to equal length of reply

  16. #65

    Thank you, Ally. Excellent observations.


  17. #66
    Registered User Teddi's Avatar
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    Declaration of Independence:
    "...certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (Italics mine.)
    The Declaration, remember, is not a part of the Constituion and has no bearing on Constitutional law.

    Let's just get some balance back, how's that? Disney makes money, guests have a good time, some people get offended because their rights have been infringed. And all is well.

    Ally
    Hear, hear! If the parks continue to be extremely crowded, it will lead to us for sure not being AP's and for sure probably never doing more than 1 trip a year, and fewer days (like 2) instead of the 4 we usually try to do. And we will for sure replace the days at Disneyland with US, Knotts, or San Diego attractions (magic mountain, sorry!).

    I am willing to pay more for Disney_____ (products, movies, parks) for several reasons that are essentially a VALUE to me. Cleaner, safer, better staff, more family friendly parks. They put in more time, effort and money. We see it, we appreciate it, and so my money goes to Disneyland as a result.

    Products and movies are included- except for a short era (late 90's early 2000's) where they veered off course, I appreciate their animation and creativity and characters. I will pay money (generally) to see Disney films versus other studio releases.

    Bottomline, I am ok with Disney making money and I prefer to give my money to companies that make it worth it. I would love to see CA adventure improved, that 3rd park added someday, and the Anaheim resort area expanded. They need profit to do that.

    That said, there does come a break point. A few days a year at capacity .. Ok... but if the on season and the offseaon continue to be SO crowded... that you get less done in a day, wait too long for food and drink, get your feet stepped on too many times... that value begins to shrink alot.
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  18. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mouse Is Back View Post
    Let's just get some balance back, how's that? Disney makes money, guests have a good time, some people get offended because their rights have been infringed. And all is well.

    Hear, Hear!
    ~Jeff

  19. #68
    Fun is wherever you find it... olegc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mouse Is Back View Post
    Imagine being a first-time guest at the Parks, someone who has saved up for the trip of a lifetime and will unlikely ever be able to return - and being greeted with crowds so large that you don't get to do even half of what you wanted to? Something as basic as getting on rides? It's even worse for vacationers who've been to other Disney parks where attendance has been better managed. Would you make DLR your destination again?
    Ally
    I really liked your overall post - but one advantage some travellers have is the magic mornings. While not a complete panacea to the crowd problem - I would imagine a "trip of a lifetime" would be multiple days at the parks with probably magic mornings included. so they may get to do some of the activities they dreamed of - while then getting smacked in the face at 4pm with the crowds..

    Although I would also think if it was your trip of a lifetime would you just hop on a plane and go without asking questions? I mean - I get it, many travellers are not savvy enough to ask the right questions - but you would ask the big ones like crowd level, places to eat, things to do, what are the best bets, etc.

    it's the folks coming once every two or three years i think that get hit hardest. You think you know the place and wham! surprise - 1 hour coffee line.
    "[Disneyland] has that thing - the imagination, and the feeling of happy excitement - I knew when I was a kid." - Walt Disney

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by olegc View Post

    it's the folks coming once every two or three years i think that get hit hardest. You think you know the place and wham! surprise - 1 hour coffee line.

    That's my family's biggest whine, the days that used to not have crowds, are now packed from one end of Main Street to the other.
    Makes it hard to plan those "off season" trips
    Disneyland IS the Happiest place on Earth!

  21. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt'sbirthdaygirl View Post
    That's my family's biggest whine, the days that used to not have crowds, are now packed from one end of Main Street to the other.
    But, do you honestly think that Disney would see that as a problem that needs to be solved, as this thread seems to be suggesting? I strongly suspect that Disney actually saw those days that the park was uncrowded as the real problem that needed to be solved.

    The problem that I see with this thread is that the entire premise simply makes no sense. I can certainly see where some guests that became used to visiting during previously uncrowded periods may have a problem with the change, but I can't see any reason why Disney would view it as a problem that their parks are currently much busier than they once were.

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  22. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffG View Post
    But, do you honestly think that Disney would see that as a problem that needs to be solved, as this thread seems to be suggesting? I strongly suspect that Disney actually saw those days that the park was uncrowded as the real problem that needed to be solved.

    The problem that I see with this thread is that the entire premise simply makes no sense. I can certainly see where some guests that became used to visiting during previously uncrowded periods may have a problem with the change, but I can't see any reason why Disney would view it as a problem that their parks are currently much busier than they once were.

    -Jeff
    I would think having the parks full with people who spend very little money is a problem. The larger crowds must have quite an impact on staffing costs, and they've had to lease off site parking and busses to accommodate parking for the larger crowds.

  23. #72

    Phbbbt

    Quote Originally Posted by K & S View Post
    I would think having the parks full with people who spend very little money is a problem. The larger crowds must have quite an impact on staffing costs, and they've had to lease off site parking and busses to accommodate parking for the larger crowds.
    I've been thinking about this ever since it was posted in a different thread that Disney is now offering a merchandise discount ay all pass levels. I do not believe that this is an altruistic measure to take some of the sting out of the holidays or even only a way to encourage excess consumerism (since I do think people tend to buy more than planned if they think they're getting a deal). Attaching a discount for allowing Disney to scan an annual pass encourages consumers to allow Disney to monitor their spending habits, just as Grocery club cards and Costco membership cards allow those companies to know exactly what their consumers purchase and when.

    I'm personally surprised Disney hasn't offered a discount on all pass levels (even if it's just 5% for the So Cal) just so that Disney would have quantifiable answers to how much merchandise passholders purchase (much like they already have for food).

    My guess is that there are a variety of spending levels among passholders so that some spend very little and others a whole lot more. But it's probably more complicated than that since as people go through life their needs and financial status change. Before kids, I may have seriously considered the D23 Candlelight thing. Now, that cost, when combined with getting someone to watch my kids and other circumstances made it not realistic. But some days I wonder how many more Christmases or Birthdays it will take before my son owns the entire merchandise line from the Toy Story store. It appears that for the next two months, Disney will learn more of our spending habits.

    If, after that, changes are made in the annual passholder program, we'll know if Disney execs think AP spending levels are problematic.

  24. #73

    I don't expect any change to the AP program until it has been determined at what rate the APs purchased through the Birthday promotion are renewed without the incentive of a free down payment. Its possible the overcrowding problem will be resolved with no change to the program.


  25. #74
    Passing the Disney-love to my babies lauramaynot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K & S View Post
    I don't expect any change to the AP program until it has been determined at what rate the APs purchased through the Birthday promotion are renewed without the incentive of a free down payment. Its possible the overcrowding problem will be resolved with no change to the program.

    I completely agree. it will be interesting to see what happens as 2010 progresses and how many of those AP's are renewed. It would be nice to see the numbers decline a bit, like a PP said we definately need balance. But maybe I am in the minority here, but I do like the crowds sometimes...it makes things very interesting to the peoplewatchers lots of amusing stuff goes on when the crowds are bigger
    Laura ~ Mom of 5 future Mouseplaneteers
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  26. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by K & S View Post
    I would think having the parks full with people who spend very little money is a problem. The larger crowds must have quite an impact on staffing costs, and they've had to lease off site parking and busses to accommodate parking for the larger crowds.
    Well, sure, but what evidence is there that the crowds aren't spending money in the parks? The fact that Disney has been continuing and even expanding the programs that have created the larger crowds certainly suggests exactly the opposite.

    -Jeff
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