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    Solving Disneyland’s Annual Passholder, Attendance and Food Problems

    Solving Disneylands Annual Passholder, Attendance and Food Problems

    Disney recently released 4th quarter results and theme park revenues and profits were down significantly as compared to last year. Disney does not break down how much the Disneyland Resort
    contributes to the revenues and profits as compared to Walt Disney World Resorts contributions. If one were to estimate, Walt Disney World probably contributes at least 60-70% of the revenue and profit total since Walt Disney World has 4 theme parks and more resort hotels than the Disneyland Resort has.

    Although attendance at Disneyland was up 15% in the period from July 1 through August 30, revenues and profits were down compared to last year.

    How should Disneyland solve these problems?

    The 2009 promotions of having free Disneyland admission and a gift card of $72 on your birthday was hugely successful and Disney has no one to blame but Disney. Disney heavily marketed this promotion and by allowing the gift card value to be applied to the purchase of an Annual Pass Disney has increased the Annual Passholder numbers to almost 1 million. The majority of the Annual Passes are the Southern California and Southern California Select Annual Passes. In retrospect, the gift card should not have been allowed to be used as a payment for an Annual Pass. The gift card should have been restricted to food and merchandise but Disney created this problem.

    Disneyland will solve this Annual Passholder problem soon. The profits and revenue from the Disney theme park division are heavily scrutinized by Wall Street and Disney is a member of the Dow Jones Average. The stock price and Disneys profits are used as an indicator for consumer and travel spending.

    One way to solve the Annual Passholder problem is to only have a Premium Annual Pass and a Deluxe Pass or just a Premium Annual Pass. This will reduce the AP number drastically. Back in the 1990s, only 2 passes were offered Premium and Deluxe. Disney should offer Southern California and Southern California Select passholders a discount to upgrade to a Premium or Deluxe pass.

    Disney also needs to reduce the Southern California Marketing. The 2 for 1 ticket deals and other promotions need to be cut back. Disney could solve this by having promotions from January through March and then from September (after Labor Day) through November. Promotions during June through August need to be eliminated and/or reduced.

    Disneyland has to balance its marketing to Southern California residents and out of town tourists.
    The Disneyland Resort was to be a destination resort like Walt Disney World but that plan has not been successful. Perhaps when California Adventures improvements are finished, Disney can reassess its marketing for a destination resort. Obviously, the addition to the Grand Californian Hotel, the new Vacation Club units and the complete refurbishment of the Disneyland Hotel which is underway will add to the destination resort thinking.

    Disney has successfully created the Halloween and Christmas markets at Disneyland and the results have been good. Attendance at Disneyland has been steady in October and November so far this year.
    In the 1990s, Magic Mornings/Early Entry was only available to people who purchased a travel package from the Walt Disney Travel Company. Disney expanded this by allowing anyone who purchased a 3-Day Park Hopper Pass to have access to a Magic Morning/Early Entry on one morning. Disney needs to go back to the 1990s model and only have Walt Disney Travel Company packages and Disneyland Resort Hotel guests access to Magic Mornings/Early Entry. This will cut down on the attendance as well. Perhaps when the California Adventure improvements are finished, Disney can offer Magic Mornings/Early Entry to California Adventure on the remaining days when Magic Morning/Early Entry is not offered for Disneyland. Disney makes more profit on packages from the Walt Disney Travel Company and by only allowing Walt Disney Travel Company package guests and Disneyland Resort Hotel guests access to Magic Morning/Early Entry, Disney can steer more guests and money that way.

    Food is another issue. Disneyland has a fairly liberal policy of allowing guests to bring in food and snacks. This policy does not need to be changed. The menu offerings and prices need to be changed.
    Disneyland food offerings cannot compete with the Value meals that are marketed by almost every fast food chain in America. Unfortunately, Disneyland has not changed to conform to American consumers demands and expectations. Disneyland needs to offer value meals that include say a cheeseburger, fries AND a drink for one price. This price should be lower than the current price of a cheeseburger and fries and the additional charge for a drink. Also the drink size should be a 32 ounce drink and not a 20 ounce drink. Disneyland has the buying power to get quality beef, chicken and fish in the marketplace and should stop buying cheaper cuts. I realize that Disneyland and the Walt Disney Company are FOR PROFIT enterprises, but consumers should get more value for their dollar. If Disney is going to market its parks, it should also market first rate food as well. Also Disneyland should add more sandwiches and salad selections to its fast food offerings. Not everyone wants a cheeseburger and fries.

    The pizza prices at Disneyland are outrageous. Over $30 for a whole pie that is just awful. Cheese and flour and tomato sauce are relatively cheap.

    Just because someone lives in Southern California does not give that person a right to go to Disneyland and alternatively, a New York City Resident does not have a right to go to a Broadway show. Disneyland needs to balance its marketing for Southern California residents and out-of town tourists. I have no bias against Southern California residents. When I was living in LA, I had a Premium Pass and now that I live on the East Coast, I still have my Premium Pass but I get to Disneyland three times a year and always stay at the Disneyland Hotel and use the Walt Disney Travel Company for tickets for family members and travel packages.

    Disney needs to solve these problems now because Disney shareholders (me being one of them) want a higher stock price, higher dividend payments and higher corporate profits and Disneyland tourists (me being one and a Premium Annual Passholder) want value for their dollar. Disneyland profits cannot solely be based on Southern California residents or out-of-town visitors. Disneyland needs both markets to survive. Disneyland needs to realize that and change its marketing, Annual Pass programs and food choices NOW and not later.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    If one were to estimate, Walt Disney World probably contributes at least 60-70% of the revenue and profit total since Walt Disney World has 4 theme parks and more resort hotels than the Disneyland Resort has.
    I think that's a really bad assumption to make.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    The majority of the Annual Passes are the Southern California and Southern California Select Annual Passes.
    And you know this because...?


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    One way to solve the Annual Passholder problem is to only have a Premium Annual Pass and a Deluxe Pass or just a Premium Annual Pass. This will reduce the AP number drastically.
    I would expect that if Disney wanted to reduce the number of APs at the DLR, they 1) wouldn't have added a lot of lower-level, fairly-inexpensive AP levels, 2) wouldn't have implemented the practice of being able to finance an AP, even if it is only offered to SoCal residents and 3) wouldn't have ads all over the resort (including on receipts when you buy food) suggesting to people that they convert their current admission media into an AP.



    But I think you should let Disney know about your ideas. You should send them to Bob Iger. I'm sure he'd be happy to get your letter.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    I think that's a really bad assumption to make.




    And you know this because...?




    I would expect that if Disney wanted to reduce the number of APs at the DLR, they 1) wouldn't have added a lot of lower-level, fairly-inexpensive AP levels, 2) wouldn't have implemented the practice of being able to finance an AP, even if it is only offered to SoCal residents and 3) wouldn't have ads all over the resort (including on receipts when you buy food) suggesting to people that they convert their current admission media into an AP.



    But I think you should let Disney know about your ideas. You should send them to Bob Iger. I'm sure he'd be happy to get your letter.
    Wall Street Journal article a few years back and CNBC reports on the profit breakdown.

    My sources on the number of Southern California passes is a management cast member at Disneyland and an executive at the Walt Disney Travel Company.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    I think that's a really bad assumption to make.




    And you know this because...?




    I would expect that if Disney wanted to reduce the number of APs at the DLR, they 1) wouldn't have added a lot of lower-level, fairly-inexpensive AP levels, 2) wouldn't have implemented the practice of being able to finance an AP, even if it is only offered to SoCal residents and 3) wouldn't have ads all over the resort (including on receipts when you buy food) suggesting to people that they convert their current admission media into an AP.



    But I think you should let Disney know about your ideas. You should send them to Bob Iger. I'm sure he'd be happy to get your letter.

    Also look to Disney's Annual Report for 2008:
    http://amedia.disney.go.com/investor...DC-AR-2008.pdf

    Page 60: Domestic Parks and Resorts: At our domestic parks and resorts,
    revenue growth was primarily due to increases at theWalt Disney
    World Resort and Disney Vacation Club. Revenue growth atWalt
    DisneyWorld Resort was primarily due to increased guest spending
    and theme park attendance. Increased guest spending was due to
    higher average ticket prices, increased food and beverage sales
    and higher average daily hotel room rates. At Disney Vacation Club,
    revenue growth reflected higher vacation club ownership sales,
    including extensions of the term of ownership on existing vacation
    home properties.

    Page 61: Segment Operating Income Segment operating income
    increased 11%, or $187 million, to $1.9 billion, primarily due to
    increases at Disneyland Resort Paris and the Walt DisneyWorld Resort.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    Wall Street Journal article a few years back and CNBC reports on the profit breakdown.

    My sources on the number of Southern California passes is a management cast member at Disneyland and an executive at the Walt Disney Travel Company.
    Based on the far smaller crowds when both So Cal passes are blocked, I'd say you're correct.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post

    Just because someone lives in Southern California does not give that person a right to go to Disneyland and alternatively, a New York City Resident does not have a right to go to a Broadway show. Disneyland needs to balance its marketing for Southern California residents and out-of town tourists. I have no bias against Southern California residents. When I was living in LA, I had a Premium Pass and now that I live on the East Coast, I still have my Premium Pass but I get to Disneyland three times a year and always stay at the Disneyland Hotel and use the Walt Disney Travel Company for tickets for family members and travel packages.

    Last I looked, this was America and yeah, everyone has a right to go to Disneyland AND a Broadway show no matter where they live. That was a really odd comment, in my books.
    Last edited by Niwel; 11-15-2009 at 08:43 PM. Reason: fixing code

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    How should Disneyland solve these problems?

    The 2009 promotions of having free Disneyland admission and a gift card of $72 on your birthday was hugely successful and Disney has no one to blame but Disney. Disney heavily marketed this promotion and by allowing the gift card value to be applied to the purchase of an Annual Pass – Disney has increased the Annual Passholder numbers to almost 1 million. The majority of the Annual Passes are the Southern California and Southern California Select Annual Passes. In retrospect, the gift card should not have been allowed to be used as a payment for an Annual Pass. The gift card should have been restricted to food and merchandise but Disney created this problem.

    Should not be allowed (i'm sorry is this not a free country? is Disney not a multi million dollar successful company? have they not been hit by the recession? are they trying to make others have a magical time though money is tight?


    One way to solve the Annual Passholder problem is to only have a Premium Annual Pass and a Deluxe Pass or just a Premium Annual Pass. This will reduce the AP number drastically. Back in the 1990s, only 2 passes were offered – Premium and Deluxe. Disney should offer Southern California and Southern California Select passholders a discount to upgrade to a Premium or Deluxe pass.

    so family A who has had a premium annual pass for 10 years lose their jobs and can no longer afford the premium annual pass to disneyland. the family turns to sadness and what happens.. DISNEY takes it upon themselves to make a pass that is affordable.


    Disney also needs to reduce the Southern California Marketing. The 2 for 1 ticket deals and other promotions need to be cut back. Disney could solve this by having promotions from January through March and then from September (after Labor Day) through November. Promotions during June through August need to be eliminated and/or reduced.

    not to say New York residents don't have perks. lets see you get to see broadway shows at a discount using TKTS and they have deals for residents for the first week of a new show.


    Disneyland has to balance its marketing to Southern California residents and out of town tourists.
    The Disneyland Resort was to be a destination resort like Walt Disney World but that plan has not been successful. Perhaps when California Adventure’s improvements are finished, Disney can reassess its marketing for a destination resort. Obviously, the addition to the Grand Californian Hotel, the new Vacation Club units and the complete refurbishment of the Disneyland Hotel which is underway will add to the destination resort thinking.

    Tourist are JUST THAT Tourists, yes they bring money in and many tourist can only afford to go to Disneyland maybe twice in their lifetime. California residents can go so much more and on average spend more being a passholder than a tourist who comes ONCE!!!

    Disney needs to go back to the 1990s model and only have Walt Disney Travel Company packages and Disneyland Resort Hotel guests access to Magic Mornings/Early Entry.

    this to me sounds like the same basic argument you are trying to protray above just backwards, its basically the same complaint you have on annual passholders and that the market should not be to just California residents .. well then magic morning should not be for just the travel packages.

    Disney needs to go back to the 1990s model and only have Walt Disney Travel Company packages and Disneyland Resort Hotel guests access to Magic Mornings/Early Entry.

    again change is needed to be a successful company, if everything stayed the same as it was in the 90's we would all have crazy hair and wait .... CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE WOULD NEVER EVEN EXIST!!!

    This will cut down on the attendance

    Now try running a multi million dollar company... you have cast memeber A who makes 9 dollars an hour, scheduled 3 hours early for magic morning tourists, for that 3 hours she sees maybe 50 guests an hour. if that ....now looking at the money that is being used to pay Cast memeber A.. hmm lets just add a few more tourist in or shall I say guests for the day and poof it makes it worth the companies money to pay her to be busy.
    Paying a cast member to sometimes not be busy enough is not worth it.


    Just because someone lives in Southern California does not give that person a right to go to Disneyland and alternatively, a New York City Resident does not have a right to go to a Broadway show.

    A- the right??? being an american citizen we have the right to do alot of things... going to Disneyland is one of them. going to Disneyland, skiing, surfing, and sky diving in the same day.. its the life of a California resident

    Disneyland needs to balance its marketing for Southern California residents and out-of town tourists. I have no bias against Southern California residents.
    B]Disney needs to solve these problems now because Disney shareholders (me being one of them) want a higher stock price, higher dividend payments and higher corporate profits[/B]

    Disney is balancing the market, they gouge the tourists for the shareholders and higher stock price that shareholders are wanting.

    obviously your truly missing the big picture (in your eyes being a stockholder) your all about the money !!! thats not what Walt is all about thats not what the park represents or should represent MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING!!!!
    and to people who think it is are sadly mistaken. and are usually miserable people

    Last edited by SUNSHINE4565; 11-15-2009 at 09:16 PM. Reason: BOLDING

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by potterphreak View Post
    Last I looked, this was America and yeah, everyone has a right to go to Disneyland AND a Broadway show no matter where they live. That was a really odd comment, in my books.
    The last time I looked the US Constitution did not list that as right. No law or court decision has never enumerated that going to Disneyland is a legal right or privilege granted to residents. Americans possess freedom to make choices. There is no legal right to go to Disneyland.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SUNSHINE4565 View Post
    obviously your truly missing the big picture (in your eyes being a stockholder) your all about the money !!! thats not what Walt is all about thats not what the park represents or should represent MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING!!!!
    and to people who think it is are sadly mistaken. and are usually miserable people[/B]

    I am not a miserable person and just because I am a shareholder does not been that I am all about money.
    Last edited by stan4d_steph; 11-17-2009 at 01:07 PM. Reason: edit quote to same length as response

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    hey - great observations - but i doubt any of these points would be strongly considered in my opinion because...

    1) when have you known the Disney company to lower prices (food comment)?
    2) the budget machine for the parks works on main gate revenue and the higher that revenue, especially up front, the better the chance to budget for other projects
    3) since the entire economy is in the tank Disney executives get a slight pass for a downgrade in profitability from Wall Street. Attendance is up but revenue is down? means that folks are not buying as many souvenirs or meals or longer stays. And discounting to get them to come in the first place. unfortunately disney can't be Walmart and outsource their operations to under-age India or Chinese residents.

    Would the company rather have NO dollars coming in or slightly less dollars by discounting and offering free nights? I would think that the Disney company overall would rather find a way to get people in the parks and offer them something - and they try and market food and souvenirs there. Saturday 11/13 Disneyland was fairly busy and two food locations are fully seated (but not a massive spring-like crowd).

    I mean, your ideas are well thought out and I understand where they are coming from - but to me it's a long winded complaint about the crowded nature of the parks.. Disney will most likely try to ramp up other methods for revenue increases and not change ticketing, since attendance is up.

    For next year, since you have to volunteer to get a ticket, and there are a limited number of tickets, it won't be as much of an impact.

    "[Disneyland] has that thing - the imagination, and the feeling of happy excitement - I knew when I was a kid." - Walt Disney

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    I think your ideas are insightful and interesting, I can see why some people would be upset, BUT I can see your points and why you come up with these conclusions.

    In fact, there have been many people who have posted on here and other forums that the attendance was a major problem. So yes I also see that the flexibility of obtaining passes caused quite a commotion.

    I would also like to say that while many annual pass holders are able to go as many times, there have been prior discussions.....I dont recall if it was here on this forum, and I rather let you all find it in case I am confusing this site for another, but people have expressed concern over the profits generated by annual passholders. (MYSELF INCLUDED)

    Financially speaking, a tourist will bring in more money than an annual passholder because they come to buy and spend......sometimes or most of the time many passholders go to enjoy the park and sometimes purchase merchandise, food, etc. whereas a tourist will purchase food, drinks, snacks, etc. a lot more. Again this is just me generating info from other sources.......but I am not saying this is bad.....or right I am just saying that I can understand Joes post.

    truth is something must be done, whether its the third park everyone wants/talks about, but then again the possibility that these problems will even out once CA is up and running might distinguish whether DL needs to make more room, or expand.


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    I agree with a previous poster, sounds like a long winded, flawed argument from someone who is just frustrated. There has been allot of So Cal bashing lately which is a very childish reaction here.

     

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by princessy777 View Post
    I agree with a previous poster, sounds like a long winded, flawed argument from someone who is just frustrated. There has been allot of So Cal bashing lately which is a very childish reaction here.
    I am not frustrated. If you read my post, I do not bash SO Cal passholders.
    I visit the parks three times a year and I enjoy it. As I live on the East Coast and stay at the Disneyland Hotel, I appreciate every moment of my stays. When I lived in LA, I had a Premium Annual Pass and during the 1990s, the Premium and Deluxe Passes were offered and there were plenty of SO Cal residents who were passholders in the 1990s. My argument may be flawed in your opinion but I am entitled to post.
    Last edited by JoeCool; 11-16-2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Added content

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    Fun is wherever you find it... olegc's Avatar
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    on the financial front I decided to try and quantify my visits.

    so - I visit at least 12 times per year (more really but 12 quality visits).
    Each time I visit i buy 1 meal for 6 visits and two meals the other 6. each meal is roughly $16.00 counting drink, and discount. (averaging between things like soup in breadbowl vs cafe orleans). that's 18 meals x $16.00 or $288.00 dollars. and i more often eat meals and not simply snacks because I can with my monthly visit - I don't get the same impact as a person visiting for three days.

    then there are souvenirs. While I don't buy t-shirts each time I go, i buy at least one t-shirt per year, a few pins, and more often than not two indulgences (sculptures, art pieces,etc.) this year with HMH I spent around $400.00 on merchandise. so - while it may not be t-shirts and hats and the like, the dollar value for just me is equivalent to what someone would spend on a single multi-day visit. probably on average around $200.00 per year - and again that's just for me.

    so - just me - I have spent almost $500.00 for the year with my mutliple visits. would you say that is equal to what a person would spend on a multi-day visit? less? more? I know - those who feel APs don't hold their own would say I am not like other AP holders - and you may be right - but those folks also may be visiting more often (twice per month) and maybe buying 50% less. that's $250.00 per person per year. I wonder what a typical family spends per person on a single visit - and then for Disneyland how many of those are single-day once per year visitors versus multi-day guests. For me - my almost $500 AP and $500 in expenditures means I give the DIsney company $1000.00 a year (sometimes much more) for them to give me my enterainment.

    It would be VERY interesting to get a real rundown of figures on a detailed level, and not simply opinions dressed in general statements. obviously the DIsney company won't release those numbers to the public - that would impact them too severely with their competition. HOwever, I think a lot of AP holders buy more than people think and a lot of day visitors buy less - maybe not a lot less but they don't "stock up"...

    "[Disneyland] has that thing - the imagination, and the feeling of happy excitement - I knew when I was a kid." - Walt Disney

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by olegc View Post
    on the financial front I decided to try and quantify my visits.

    so - I visit at least 12 times per year (more really but 12 quality visits).
    Each time I visit i buy 1 meal for 6 visits and two meals the other 6. each meal is roughly $16.00 counting drink, and discount. (averaging between things like soup in breadbowl vs cafe orleans). that's 18 meals x $16.00 or $288.00 dollars. and i more often eat meals and not simply snacks because I can with my monthly visit - I don't get the same impact as a person visiting for three days.

    then there are souvenirs. While I don't buy t-shirts each time I go, i buy at least one t-shirt per year, a few pins, and more often than not two indulgences (sculptures, art pieces,etc.) this year with HMH I spent around $400.00 on merchandise. so - while it may not be t-shirts and hats and the like, the dollar value for just me is equivalent to what someone would spend on a single multi-day visit. probably on average around $200.00 per year - and again that's just for me.

    so - just me - I have spent almost $500.00 for the year with my mutliple visits. would you say that is equal to what a person would spend on a multi-day visit? less? more? I know - those who feel APs don't hold their own would say I am not like other AP holders - and you may be right - but those folks also may be visiting more often (twice per month) and maybe buying 50% less. that's $250.00 per person per year. I wonder what a typical family spends per person on a single visit - and then for Disneyland how many of those are single-day once per year visitors versus multi-day guests. For me - my almost $500 AP and $500 in expenditures means I give the DIsney company $1000.00 a year (sometimes much more) for them to give me my enterainment.

    It would be VERY interesting to get a real rundown of figures on a detailed level, and not simply opinions dressed in general statements. obviously the DIsney company won't release those numbers to the public - that would impact them too severely with their competition. HOwever, I think a lot of AP holders buy more than people think and a lot of day visitors buy less - maybe not a lot less but they don't "stock up"...

    Thanks for your comments and analysis. It would be intersting if Disney Corporate ever broke down operating expenses, revenues and profits for each theme park.

  17. #16
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    Here's an idea:

    }}}Declare an end to the AP program. No AP's will be sold or renewed after 12/31/2011

    }}}Announce that effective immediately the one-day admission price will be $55.00

    }}}Pronounce that sometime in 2013 a new Tomorrowland will be completed.

    }}}Pronounce a replacement for the AP....a frequent guest card. Frequent guests will be given perks like discounts on food and merch. and even free or reduced admission on select slow days could be offered to those who meet certain in park spending quotas.

    The elimination of the AP will help Disney throw off the crowds of people who spend so much time but so little money in the park

    The bad publicity they may receive for doing this will be softened by the reduction in the one-day admission(plus, with a lower one day more people who only want to visit the park once in a while will once again feel welcome), a new TL and the frequent guest card.

    ~Jeff

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    The last time I looked the US Constitution did not list that as right. No law or court decision has never enumerated that going to Disneyland is a legal right or privilege granted to residents. Americans possess freedom to make choices. There is no legal right to go to Disneyland.
    Constitution:
    Ninth Amendment - Unenumerated Rights

    Declaration of Independence:
    "...certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (Italics mine.)

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.

    — Margaret Mead




  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Constitution:
    Ninth Amendment - Unenumerated Rights

    Declaration of Independence:
    "...certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (Italics mine.)
    No legal right to go to Disney is stated. The Constitution does not contain a legal right to attend Disneyland. No explict or implied right.

    Natural rights (also called moral rights or unalienable rights) are rights which are not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of a particular society or polity. Natural rights are thus necessarily universal, whereas legal rights are culturally and politically relative.

    There is no unalienable right or a moral right to visit or go to Disneyland.


    9th Amendment

    Text of Amendment:
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Why This Amendment Exists:
    When the Bill of Rights was first proposed, the major argument against it was that by specifying some rights that the government was not free to violate, there would be the implication that the government was free to violate any rights not specifically protected in the Constitution. The Ninth Amendment was written to address this concern.

    Practical Effect:
    Of all the amendments in the Bill of Rights, none is stranger or harder to interpret than the Ninth. At the time it was proposed, there was no mechanism by which the Bill of Rights could be enforced. The Supreme Court had not yet established the power to strike down unconstitutional legislation, and it was not widely expected to. The Bill of Rights was, in other words, unenforceable. So what would an enforceable Ninth Amendment look like?

    As for the Declaration of Independence: The pursuit of happiness is a wide term...no mention of right to go to Disneyland.

    The framers of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence did not intend to convey a legal right to attend a theme park.
    Last edited by JoeCool; 11-16-2009 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typo

  20. #19
    Registered User Rufus T Firefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    My argument may be flawed in your opinion but I am entitled to post.
    Just as all So Cal residents are entitled to visit Disneyland whenever we choose.
    Say the secret word.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus T Firefly View Post
    Just as all So Cal residents are entitled to visit Disneyland whenever we choose.
    Of course, you have the freedom to go to Disneyland as much as I do (I live on the East Coast!! So I visit 3 times a year so you can pick up all the days that I cannot go!!

  22. #21
    Registered User Rufus T Firefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool View Post
    Of course, you have the freedom to go to Disneyland as much as I do (I live on the East Coast!! So I visit 3 times a year so you can pick up all the days that I cannot go!!
    I'll go for you tomorrow and park hop to your heart's content.
    Say the secret word.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus T Firefly View Post
    I'll go for you tomorrow and park hop to your heart's content.
    Thanks!!

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by olegc View Post
    I know - those who feel APs don't hold their own would say I am not like other AP holders...
    I think people who feel that way would be pretty surprised to discover how much AP holders actually DO spend in the parks. I've mentioned this in another, older post, but many AP holders eat and shop in the parks too. In addition to picking up cute things we see like clothing, jewelry and seasonal items on a regular basis, we've done school and Christmas shopping there most years. Sometimes we go just for dinner -- which we buy there.

    Contrast that with the number of people who post on this board questions about how much outside food they can bring in; where they can buy inexpensive souvenirs (like the Character Warehouse) and I suspect it would reveal that AP holders hold their own in the spending department.

    This is in NO way meant to disparage anybody trying to save money -- just my perspective on having had an AP for many years, and having spent an awful lot of money on food, books, artwork, clothing, holiday things, jewelry, toys, hats, etc in the parks -- and finding no shortage of AP-holding shopping buddies.
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  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkermommy View Post
    I think people who feel that way would be pretty surprised to discover how much AP holders actually DO spend in the parks. I've mentioned this in another, older post, but many AP holders eat and shop in the parks too. In addition to picking up cute things we see like clothing, jewelry and seasonal items on a regular basis, we've done school and Christmas shopping there most years. Sometimes we go just for dinner -- which we buy there.

    Contrast that with the number of people who post on this board questions about how much outside food they can bring in; where they can buy inexpensive souvenirs (like the Character Warehouse) and I suspect it would reveal that AP holders hold their own in the spending department.

    This is in NO way meant to disparage anybody trying to save money -- just my perspective on having had an AP for many years, and having spent an awful lot of money on food, books, artwork, clothing, holiday things, jewelry, toys, hats, etc in the parks -- and finding no shortage of AP-holding shopping buddies.

    You probably are right. As a Premium Pass holder, who lives on the East Coast, I visit DL about 3 times a year and always stay at the DL Hotel for at least 5 nights each stay. I live on the East Coast and I eat all meals at DLR - either an table service restuarant for at least 1 meal a day and the rest at regular fast food/buffeteria settings. I always spend money on shirts, clothing and sweatshorts.

    APers do spend I am sure. I love the Premium Pass discounts on merchandise and food!!

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkermommy View Post
    I think people who feel that way would be pretty surprised to discover how much AP holders actually DO spend in the parks.
    I also think many people are erroneously assuming that "AP holder" and "out-of-town tourist" are mutually exclusive. Just because you have an AP, even a premium AP, doesn't mean you live in the Southern California area, just as people who don't live in Florida can also have WDW APs.
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