PAP Renewal "Black Hole"

[Tinkermommy]

Our PAPs renew on 7/17. I did the renewal online, not expecting to go back to the resort until 7/18, but "needed" to go today on an unanticipated Vinylmation quest.

Our new passes hadn't arrived yet, so knowing that they de-activate your old pass as soon as the new one is issued, I stopped by Guest Services. Even though our Premium Annual Passes are paid through July 17, I was told that the only way we could enter the park today (nine days before they expire) was to use our once-a-year courtesy pass. As I understand it, this is a pass that allows you once each year to use your pass benefits if you've forgotten your pass.

In the years we've had a pass, we've never had to use this, but I was opposed to using a benefit that I might one day need, when I (a) had my pass physically in hand, (b) have paid through 7/17, (c) had my renewal receipt with me, and (d) am not supposed to have any blackout days on my pass.

Disney offers special pass designs when you renew online that you can't get if you renew in the park. I assume they offer this benefit to encourage passholders to renew online, which indicates to me that it's somehow easier for Disney if I handle my renewal that way. And I'm happy to do anything that makes things easier for Disney!

The CM at Guest Services seemed to think we were being unreasonable about not wanting to be penalized as though we'd forgotten our passes. He said we have to give Disneyland time to process and mail our passes. But when I did the renewal, Disney said I should allow 10 days for processing and mailing. That says to me that if the Guest Services CM is right, I should expect to have as many as 10 blackout days on my "no blackout day" pass, unless I decide to forgo the special designs and renew in the park, thus adding to their AP Processing Center lines.

I ended up going to the gate to see what would happen. Our passes were rejected. I pointed out the renewal date and showed the CM my renewal receipt to explain why the unexpired pass was rejected. He eventually did an override, but he was very reluctant to do so. The second time we entered the park, we encountered another reluctant CM, even though we had handstamps. (Ironically, the guest in front of us was using a paper ticket that was also rejected. The CM asked if the guest had gotten the ticket that day, the guest said yes, and they let her in. No handstamp. Go figure.)

There has to be a more effective way to handle this "black hole" that occurs between online renewal of an unexpired pass and the arrival of a new pass. I'm wondering why they don't do something like leave the old pass active (prior to the expiration date, of course); mail the new pass, then have you sign in to your AP account and activate the new pass, thus deactivating the old one. (It wouldn't resolve this issue for people who renew by mail.) Or maybe the override at the gate should just be easier when it's obvious the pass hasn't expired yet.

I doubt this comes up often, but I just can't comprehend why a guest would be penalized for renewing early and efficiently. It seems like there has to be an easier -- and more guest friendly -- way to handle this issue.

[dznyphreak]

In the past when this happened to me, I just went right to the gate and explained to the CM after the nasty little "bonnnnnggg" noise went off that I had just renewed and hadn't gotten my new pass yet. Obviously the date shows that it's not expired yet and they would usually just let me in. It seems to me like Ticket Taker CM's have been more strict on the rules lately. I can imagine the problems online activation would cause though... "Oh, I was supposed to activate my pass? I didn't see that on the pass. Was it on the paper I threw out without looking at?" Seems like they should be able to have the system accept a pass until its expiration date, then automatically switch over to the new one on the next day. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but there must be some reason why they don't do it that way.

[jrsharp21]

Seems like a system programming issue to me. What they should do is program the system to carry both cards on your profile. Once the new AP is used it automatically deactivates the old. But until the new one is used, the old one is still valid up until its expiration date.

[Malcon10t]

I've only had this happen once to me a couple years ago, but I just went to the gate with my old pass. When it went Bong, the CM looked at my pass, said "Just renewed?" I said yes and he overrode the Bong. This happened every day of our 7 day trip.

[Darkbeer]

With the advent of Monthly Payments for AP's, the CM's at the turnstiles have had to become more strict with overriding the system....

[Bytebear]

I went after I renewed, and hadn't gotten the new pass. My current pass "boinged" and the CM said "renewed online?" and I said, "yep" and she said, "ok" and let me in. It was that easy. It was harder to explain to my partner why it bounced since his renewal was his suprise birthday present.

[AVP]

I run into this every year, but I always just point out the expiration date and they do an override.

AVP

[Tinkermommy]

I wonder why the CMs were so reluctant to do it for us today? (We were polite, well-behaved and appropriately dressed! )

A CM at DCA looked at our handstamps and went right ahead, but both DL CMs were noticeably hesitant; like it was a very unusual request. The first one wasn't even going to do it; he was going to send us somewhere else. Then he changed his mind and did the override. Phew.

On the upside, our new passes were here when we got home, so we have another year to worry about it...LOL.

[AVP]

I usually put a reminder about this in the Resort Update in December, since so many APs renew around Christmas. I've been told that your original AP is deactivated when your renewal is mailed, so you're not supposed to be in the "black hole" for more than a day or two.

AVP

[Malcon10t]

I wonder why the CMs were so reluctant to do it for us today? (We were polite, well-behaved and appropriately dressed! )

As Darkbeer said, I think the issue is with the fact that APs on the monthly plan who reneg on their contracts get shut out, CMs are more reluctant to override the Bong. Again, this should be a programming issue, as it should say on the screen WHY they are being refused.

[Tinkermommy]

As Darkbeer said, I think the issue is with the fact that APs on the monthly plan who reneg on their contracts get shut out, CMs are more reluctant to override the Bong. Again, this should be a programming issue, as it should say on the screen WHY they are being refused.

I'm with you on that -- along with our passes, I handed over the receipt showing I'd paid the full $738!

Since they had the money, it would be nice if that was somehow reflected with the Boing. I should have tried to look at the screen to see what it said.

I just found the whole situation sort of bizarre (and uncomfortable -- my daughter didn't even want to go back in the park after the first time), and wondered if there was a better/easier way for it to be handled. It sounds like our experience today was an anomaly, but that it may happen more frequently as people stop making their monthly payments. Yikes.

Thanks for the input, all!

[olegc]

this is one reason why I forgo the designs on the mail in. I would love to get them - but in the process of renewal and trying to get in the park - there are too many people involved with too many levels of comfort in making exceptions to an obvious business process glitch in the system.

Part of this, too, is that you are issued a new Passholder ID every year. Why? why not use the same ID - like a credit or debit account (or frequent flier account) and then that data can be mined for all sorts of additional benefits? well, I can only guess because the main purpose is to collect gate revenue up front - and every year is a new fiscal year - so they like to start fresh. Boggles the mind sometimes how much money they possibly are spending on these business processes that don't have to be so layered and jumbled.

[adriennek]

Part of this, too, is that you are issued a new Passholder ID every year. Why? why not use the same ID - like a credit or debit account (or frequent flier account) and then that data can be mined for all sorts of additional benefits?

It's too bad that there's no magical system of some sort, like a machine of some sort, that could keep track of all these numbers and be able to tell the machines at the gates that it's ok to let you into the park until your pass expires. And then this same magical machine could tell the gate machines when a month-to-month AP has defaulted. If only someone could make something like that.

Adrienne

[olegc]

It's too bad that there's no magical system of some sort, like a machine of some sort, that could keep track of all these numbers and be able to tell the machines at the gates that it's ok to let you into the park until your pass expires. And then this same magical machine could tell the gate machines when a month-to-month AP has defaulted. If only someone could make something like that.

Adrienne

Yeah! and maybe it can also add up things, help you write papers and lists, and even, wow, like search for things across the world. Wow - that would be cool

[Malcon10t]

Yeah! and maybe it can also add up things, help you write papers and lists, and even, wow, like search for things across the world. Wow - that would be cool

The machine is only as good as the programming behind it. Which is why Macs run smoother....

[BlkPearlCptn]

The machine is only as good as the programming behind it. Which is why Macs run smoother....

(I'm a new Mac convert..

[olegc]

The machine is only as good as the programming behind it. Which is why Macs run smoother....

i know this might be OT - but it's not about Mac or PC - it's about taking time to decide that as part of my business plan I am going to tie these things together into a system on a network - where there exists a database of information about a passholder - last held, next expiration date, type, renewal date, photo, etc. They already have a lot of this - what would it take to add the info about renewals to the database and make screens for the CM at the gate to bring up with simple finger touches to see the dates, and the business process and policies to allow for this type of service..

the software tools or the hardware are not the problem. it's the ideas in someone's head...

all that's stopping it is some bean counter's idea that it would not help them earn more revenue or manage revenue better - so it's not necessary. It's really about running your business more efficiently - especially a customer service business - it make things smooth and keep the customer happy. Obviously there are still things Disney can (but so far won't) improve on.

[Malcon10t]

the software tools or the hardware are not the problem. it's the ideas in someone's head...

That is the programming part. Or teh System's Analyst part if you want. It was MY job to run all the scenerios past the bosses and say "But what if this happens?" so that when I programmed the system (we are talking mainframes then) we didn't have issues like this. (I was joking with the Mac comment...) But, it is a programming issue.

[adriennek]

and even, wow, like search for things across the world.

WOW - you could search for things, too?!?? Well now you're just getting greedy, Oleg...

Adrienne

[Tinkermommy]

WOW - you could search for things, too?!?? Well now you're just getting greedy, Oleg...Adrienne

You know what would REALLY be cool? If that machine could allow people from all over the world who share a common interest to communicate!

It seems like maybe all they need is a "paid through" date to pop up with the boing or something. (I realize it's not as simple as it sounds.)

Just something -- it's inconceivable to me that I'm paid through 7/17/2010, and still had to persuade CMs to let me into the park yesterday.

[dlfansx4]

Seems like a system programming issue to me. What they should do is program the system to carry both cards on your profile. Once the new AP is used it automatically deactivates the old. But until the new one is used, the old one is still valid up until its expiration date.

Or a call-in system like when you receive a new credit card. You call to activate the new card and then the old one no longer works. It would guarantee the receipt of the new AP and inactive the old one at the same time. Bingo....no black out period.

[danyoung]

Or they could simply let the old card work till its expiration date, and then the new card would take over. In the case of the OP, his old card would continue to work till 7/17, at which time he'd start to use his new card. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

[Malcon10t]

Or they could simply let the old card work till its expiration date, and then the new card would take over. In the case of the OP, his old card would continue to work till 7/17, at which time he'd start to use his new card. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

Because there are people like me that will take a vacation that will cover both sides of the date, and having to fumble with 2 passes would overwork their fried little brains.

[dlfansx4]

Or they could simply let the old card work till its expiration date, and then the new card would take over. In the case of the OP, his old card would continue to work till 7/17, at which time he'd start to use his new card. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

Because that would be too easy ;-)

Or you would get someone that doesn't pay attention to the expiration date, receives their new AP and tosses the old one. Now they get to the park and the new AP is not active yet and the old AP is in a landfill somewhere.

LOL - given enough time to think about it, I'm sure we can shoot down any idea that is presented

[danyoung]

It's a simple matter to change the policy and then put a big ol' yellow sticker on the cover of every new AP, saying that it will NOT go into effect until [date], so use your existing AP until [date]. It could be made very clear, and with all due respect to my friend Malcon10t, it isn't that hard to handle 2 cards during the transition.