Engine #5

[DMC]

DISNEYLAND IS GETTING AN ENGINE #5!! The LGB Telegram did an article on Ward Kimble (They made a G-Scale model of his "Chloe" Locomotive. In the article, they said that the "Ward Kimble" loco from Disneyworld is being transferred here. If anyone would like the artical (I scanned it) please e-mail me with your requests at DeLorean_MC@hotmail.com



Brian

[Laffite]

BTW, I always wanted to have a manual gray '85 DeLorean; it's such a sexy car. And I was going to have it converted with Back to the Future hardware too. I've made drawings and plan out how it was going to be constructed and built. I even have a model of how the pieces will be put together and how it comes up so I can access the engine. It could never be done though because I couldn't find a DMC in good shape in the first place

But I have a silver '03 Corolla.

[smd4]

Well, yes and no. Yes, DL is getting a fifth locomotive, but it will not be the one formerly operated at WDW. That locomotive, a 2-4-4- Davenport Forney, was orignally slated to go to DL. DL traded their old set of passenger cars, known as "Retlaw 1" to a collector. The Davenport, however, was a LARGE locomotive. In a classic case of Disnelyand NOT doing their homework, and not relying on their own EXPERIENCED Roundhouse staff, they traded away a prime set of rolling stock for a locomotive they couldn't use, without MAJOR modifications to the line. In addition, the big locomotive would look out of place with other DL trains and scenery. That locomotive, instead, went to WDW, where it became known as the Ward Kimball.

Unfortnately, that locomotive proved too small for WDW. So, in 1999, a trade was made with Cedar Point Amusement Park in Ohio for a smaller 2-4-4- Forney, called the Maud L. This locomotive is roughly the same style and size as DRR No. 3, Fred Gurley . Legend states that the Maud L was named for the mistress of the plantation owner who operated the locomotive on a sugar plantation in Louisiana. Built in 1902 by the Baldwin Locomotive Works, she has been undergoing a slow and sometimes painful restoration process by Disney Roundhouse personnel.

So, Disneyland will soon have a fifth locomotive, the only engine in the Disneyland fleet NOT named for an executive of the Santa Fe Railway, and the second locomotive in the Disney empire to bear the name Ward Kimball.

[goofey]

Question: Where are they going to store this fifth locomotive if Disneyland's Roundhouse only has space for four full trains?

I don't know much about trains or the Disneyland Roundhouse, so I could just be overlooking something simple.

[Laffite]

Originally posted by smd4


So, Disneyland will soon have a fifth locomotive, the only engine in the Disneyland fleet NOT named for an executive of the Santa Fe Railway, and the second locomotive in the Disney empire to bear the name Ward Kimball.

Uh oh Does this mean I will have more works to do?!? I'm not even close to being done with Gurley yet

[smd4]

That's a good question, Laffite. I don't have any drawings of No. 5, and no one is yet sure what she will look like. We'll need to take lots of photos, maybe. Keep your drawing of the Gurley; she'll look similar.

There's plenty of room to store the new loco right now, considering at one time a 6 car passenger train was stored there.

[Laffite]

Man, I'm feeling the pressure of deadline to get drawings finish for the convention. I need to get as many completed as possible before January because I can't sell what I don't have to show. I hope to have 10 drawings; 4 of your trains, 2 sides of HM, Mark Twain (I HOPE!), and 2 or 3 of something else, but probably not because it takes a few months per drawing so there's not enough time.

I've started to put on nuts and bolts of Gurley today and started Mark Twain this evening, and going back and forth to correct HM plans. 3 projects, DL and HMH, university and midterms. Can I handle it?

but I'll keep on ing and just do it.

[Morrigoon]

Drawings for the convention? Can you elaborate on that?

(Which convention and what will you do with the drawings? -just curious)

[smd4]

Laffite is a draftsman par exellence. He exhibited his "re-draw" of the Haunted Mansion here a few weeks ago, and since that time, I've commissioned him to make drawings of the 4 current DRR locomotives based on my own drawings and photographs. I believe the drawings would look AWESOME framed up and displayed, and so I've encouraged Laffite to prepare some for sale at the NFFC convention in Anaheim in January. His drawings are all Disneyland-related subjects, and he's now trying to build up inventory. Click here to see some of his work in progress.

Keep plugging away, Laffite. You have plenty of time. If there's no Thur. update 'cause of mid-terms, I'll understand...

[Laffite]

I have 3 hours between classes on Thursdays from 11 to 2pm, and that's when I'm back at the dorm updating the site because that's the only time I have. For this week, I want to use that 3 hours to do some...ummm "last minute studies" so I'll probably do a quick and dirty update on Wednesday night.

[Jason Reynolds]

So you sell these drawings? I am also a CAD Designer, the drawings seem pretty simple. Do you just go off of pictures you've taken at the park? I've always thought of doing some drawings of items from the park.

[smd4]

For the trains, Laffite is using previously made drawings in conjunction with detail photographs from my collection.

These drawings will be the most accurate renderings available of the trains. It is presently impossible to take detail photographs of the steam locomotives unless one has access to the Roundhouse, so many of the photographs Laffite is using can not be easily replicated.

[Laffite]

Originally posted by Jason Reynolds
So you sell these drawings? I am also a CAD Designer, the drawings seem pretty simple.

So go for it and give it a shot Pretty simple it seems but it ain't. Drawing is easy yes, but the hard part is getting it right. It's almost impossible to obtain acurate info to just transfer into CAD, and sources of info are very limited*

If I have the diameter of the water wheel and the length of the Mark Twain, it would make my job a lot easier! But I don't so I'm going by proportions and photographs. I might end up at the park later this week doing some trigs.

*note: I'm speaking generally of course. But by the end of next year info on DRR will be very available with smd4's book

[Morrigoon]

So, it's legal to sell drawings/paintings of stuff in DL? Because I have my own collection of paintings I've done of buildings in DL and I've always wondered if things like that were saleable.

[Laffite]

Originally posted by Morrigoon
So, it's legal to sell drawings/paintings of stuff in DL? Because I have my own collection of paintings I've done of buildings in DL and I've always wondered if things like that were saleable.

Yes. smd4 and I researched out the legals and you can sell your drawings.

In fact, since you have paintings of buildings, here's what smd4 found

Does copyright now protect architecture?
Yes. Architectural works became subject to copyright protection on December
1, 1990. The copyright law defines "architectural work" as "the design of a
building embodied in any tangible medium of expression, including a
building, architectural plans, or drawings." Copyright protection extends to
any architectural work created on or after December 1, 1990, and any
architectural work that on December 1, 1990, was unconstructed and embodied
in unpublished plans or drawings. Architectural works embodied in buildings
constructed prior to December 1, 1990, are not eligible for copyright
protection. (emphasis added by SMD)

[JCLowesman]

I can't judge for accuarcy, but for sheer beauty, your drawings are wonderful.

It's art like yours that helps keep the wonder and beauty of Steam alive today.

So much of our historic legacy is being lost due to neglect, ignorance, or downright stupidity. Many of the great steam locomotives may never turn another wheel, but as long as people like you, smd4, and the backshop wizards of the DLRR, we all will have something to look forward to.

[Morrigoon]

So let me get this straight, if I'm reading this correctly. I could paint Tom Sawyer's Island, and sell that painting, but I can't do the same for the sun wheel?

[Laffite]

Morrigoon

As long as you sell your paintings as art, you should be okay regardless, because you would be fall under the "fair use" terms. smd4 has a wonderful painting of one of the train titled "One of Walt's" (maybe he'll show that off at the convention? ) and he can still signed his name on it because the art he painted is his creation, the subject just happens to be of Disney's.

If I paint a picture of you, does that painting belongs to you or me?

Me of course, because I painted it.

JCLowesman

Thanks for the kind words. I assure you, smd4 is assisting me so the accuracy is the most top notch that is/will be available for fans to get their hands on (as Disney themselves don't even have the original plans to the trains. )

[Morrigoon]

Wow, thanks Lafitte!

[JCLowesman]

Not to add to your workload, but here's a suggestion for you.

What about a before/after series. Combine the work you are doing now with some drawings of the engines in their original configuration before Disney.

A good source for reference material is an old friend of mine, Bruce Metcalf. He's chief librarian for the NMRA and has access to their fantastic collection of original photos and drawings. A couple of builders views from Davenport and Baldwin would go a long way for your project.

Keep the fires lit and watch the waterglass!

[Laffite]

Sure, once I get everything I want to do on my wishlist, and so far I have the castle, Columbia, and Mark Twain to do, should keep me busy well through mid of 2003.

smd4 is a real DRR fan, let's see what he thinks

[smd4]

JCLowesman,

That's an interesting idea. I have several prints in my collection of the two former Baldwins now at DL, No. 3 Fred Gurley and No. 4 Ernest S. Marsh . Unfortunately, in their original incarnations, they looked very little like they do today, especially No. 4, which was originally a saddle-tanker. She looked like a cross between a water buffalo and a hedgehog.

No. 3 looked a little similar to the way she looks today. In fact, the Fred Gurley even uses the same steam and sand domes Baldwin equipped her with in 1894. But with the more utilitarian cab and no fancy pilot, she looked no where near as graceful as she does at DL.

But for historians, your idea may be of interest.

Naturally, No. 1 and No. 2 have undergone very few changes since Disney built them in 1955. Some pipes have been re-routed, and No. 1 recieved a roof hatch, but really, that's about it.

[Jason Reynolds]

Hey Laffy Taffy,
You're quite proud of yourself, if you're so good you should be a millioniare. I am so amazed by you! I'm so sorry I ever said that was simple stuff, please forgive me your graciousness.? I'm just too busy with my electrical engineering to draw those things, I'm sure you could do both though.

Lighten up

[smd4]

Come on, Jason!

Laffite has put in countless hours to get his drawings right, and he was just a little miffed that you said they looked "simple." I'm sure you might have felt the same way if someone said electrical engineering was simple. Laffite has a right to be proud.

[Laffite]

You're quite proud of yourself,
Since when is that a sin? Since when is it a bad thing to be proud of one's own work?

if you're so good you should be a millioniare
I'm studying in university so I can become one. Why not?

I'm so sorry I ever said that was simple stuff
It is. But research into doing it isn't. Look, ANY drawings can be called simple because they all can be replicate by anybody. It's the process and research that goes to MAKE the drawings.

I'm just too busy with my electrical engineering
I can draw what you draw. CAD is just lines and if you give me a plan or a drawing I can draw it. (but doing actual electrical engineering is another story but I'm studying as civil engineering though :P)

Good day sir.