...seems to be significant increase in folks getting around DW on those motorized scooters -- causing unnecessary (?) congestion and risk.

Almost got run over by a lady going full speed thru fairly heavy crowds in MK FantasyLand. She seemed unconcerned, as well as having no obvious need for a personal scooter.

EPCOT at night has many dark areas in main walkways, but I saw several scooters at full speed
snaking thru the crowds. Some had their headlights OFF (...to save battery power, I guess), but they're hard to see coming if one is not alert (..or a little kid).

DW very admirably welcomes visitors with physical limitations ..which I fully agree with; however, IMO many folks just don't wish to walk -- and take advantage of Disney good graces.

...seems to be significant increase in folks getting around DW on those motorized scooters -- causing unnecessary (?) congestion and risk.

Unfortunately, this is your opinion. Probably 99% of them need them. Especially those of us who own our own ECVs.

Almost got run over by a lady going full speed thru fairly heavy crowds in MK FantasyLand. She seemed unconcerned, as well as having no obvious need for a personal scooter.

Unless you know the person personally and have access to the person's medical records, you do not know what you are talking about. Just try having osteoarthritis or Cystic Fibrosis or Fibromyalgia or are waiting for a heart transplant. Try walking 100 yards with any of those conditions; and all of them are invisible. Looking at me you would have no idea of the physical problems I have or the pain I may be in.

EPCOT at night has many dark areas in main walkways, but I saw several scooters at full speed snaking thru the crowds. Some had their headlights OFF (...to save battery power, I guess), but they're hard to see coming if one is not alert (..or a little kid).

Many ECVs do not have headlights. Neither of mine do, but the next one I get will have one.

DW very admirably welcomes visitors with physical limitations ..which I fully agree with; however, IMO many folks just don't wish to walk -- and take advantage of Disney good graces.
Being a moderator on another board, in a forum related to disabilities at WDW, it does seem that those that may not have medical needs are in for a rude surprise; they do not get front of the line, and some attractions you actually have to wait longer than people not in wheelchairs or ECVs.

And, as far as buses are concerned, the person may be first on, but also they are last off.

...seems to be significant increase in folks getting around DW on those motorized scooters -- causing unnecessary (?) congestion and risk.

Almost got run over by a lady going full speed thru fairly heavy crowds in MK FantasyLand. She seemed unconcerned, as well as having no obvious need for a personal scooter.

IMO many folks just don't wish to walk -- and take advantage of Disney good graces.

I have to agree with Cheshire's post. And I honestly don't understand the point of this post. Is it that people on scooters should be careful? (agreed) Or that Disney somehow should better monitor scooter use to make sure that only "deserving" people use them? Or that scooters should be banned from the parks and the disabled should just stay home?

I guess the definition of "necessary" and "unnecessary" depends on the person. You might want to consider that just because you don't perceive there to be disability doesn't mean there isn't one. Does someone need to be in a cast to justify scooter use? Someone might have a heart condition or (as in my case) the fibromyalgia that Cheshire mentioned as well as replaced joints that cannot stand several days of doing the parks. (I live near Disneyland and can usually do several hours ok--but more than that and I'm in trouble--my knees feel like cantaloupes! And a few months ago I had a broken foot and could not have spent even half a day at the park without a scooter). At that point I had a surgical boot on my broken foot--but usually I would look perfectly healthy unless I was wearing shorts and you could see the significant surgical scars on my knees. (And frankly I avoid wearing shorts--even in the summer--because of the scars.)

I do agree with you that people on scooters need to be careful on how they are driving them--just like anyone would be in a motorized vehicle--and just like pedestrians or people pushing strollers should be too. (However, I have been knocked into several times by people "on foot" not paying attention to where they are going. Not to mention the posts I have seen of people who have been run into by an inattentive stroller pusher.) Should we make people with strollers prove that they need them too? I've seen some pretty big kids that look like they should be able to walk in strollers . . . but have never cared if that's what the parent thought they needed to get through the day, even though the stroller also clog up the walkways (especially at Disneyland).

Please don't condemn all scooter riders because you observed someone being rude. I don't own my own scooter (my Mom does--herniated disc) but on those days when I have had occasion to need one and have rented one it was a necessity--even if there are judgmental people who feel otherwise.

We went to WDW in August, and my stepdad joined us. He had a stroke early in 07, and he can walk pretty well, but not for an extended time, and not for very long in the FL summer heat.

I could not believe the dirty looks he got from a few people when he would park his scooter and walk around a bit. It was as if people were offended that he was "able" to walk, yet using a scooter.

Admittedly, he was not the best driver of the thing, because he had never used one before. I think people get irritated with the lack of skill people have driving them, but they don't realize that many people don't use scooters on a regular basis in their day-to-day lives, but the extra strain of walking around WDW makes one necessary.

When I see someone coming on a scooter, I give them a clear path and continue on my way. The only time I am bothered is when I have seen people letting small children sit on their laps and steer. That doesn't seem safe for anyone.

As far as Disney's "good graces," I think they are simply doing their best to comply with the Americans With Disabilities Act. (and doing a pretty good job IMHO)

When I see someone coming on a scooter, I give them a clear path and continue on my way. The only time I am bothered is when I have seen people letting small children sit on their laps and steer. That doesn't seem safe for anyone.


You would be surprised (but maybe your relative experienced this too) at the number of people who try to dart in front of someone on a scooter--sometimes it's like you're not even there. I was on a tour (with the broken foot) and it was very difficult to keep up with the group because people would just cut me off--whether on purpose or because they were inattentive I don't know.

Disney requires you to sign a contract not permitting anyone under 18 to ride on the scooter--so if it is a Disney scooter and they are giving a youngster a ride they are breaking rules. I guess if it's their own scooter they have the right, but I agree with you it does not seem safe.

The only time I am bothered is when I have seen people letting small children sit on their laps and steer. That doesn't seem safe for anyone.

Disney requires you to sign a contract not permitting anyone under 18 to ride on the scooter--so if it is a Disney scooter and they are giving a youngster a ride they are breaking rules. I guess if it's their own scooter they have the right, but I agree with you it does not seem safe.
Even when I am not working, when I am on my ECV in the parks I will stop people who have a passenger and remind them the agreement they have with the rental company is "only one person on the ECV" and explain it is for safety reasons. If a child pushes on the lever they can slam into someone or into a wall.

(If I am working I am at a gate and standing; I will not allow a person into the park if they have someone riding on their lap, and will explain how it is a safety hazard.)

On a side note, Tuesday I happened to be running around Epcot. I was near Mexico and came to a sudden stop. About two seconds after I stopped a woman ran into the front of my ECV head-on with a double stroller with two kids in it. The two kids almost got thrown out by the jolt. The woman was apologizing because she had not seen me.

Jerry, I was with you on your post, right up until -

...as well as having no obvious need for a personal scooter.

As others have pointed out, you don't have any idea what the lady's need was for the scooter. Other than that, I agree with you - scooter folks can tend to be a bit reckless with their crowd maneuvering skills.

And while I really don't want to be judgemental about this, I can't help but notice how many scooter riders are 400+ pounds, and are driving with a basket full of munchies which they continue to consume non-stop as they speed around the grounds. Doesn't seem right.

My wife suffers from Pancreatitis and I have on occasion opted to push her around in a wheel chair when it becomes too painful for her to walk. Sorry folks, I don't "stroll" around the parks, I walk at a brisk pace and if you don't get out of the way, you might get clipped. But I don't usually have a problem--when a crowd of folks see a 6'4" 260lb man coming at them at a brisk pace with a wheelchair, they usually politely smile and side-step me. I don't mess around.

I don't mind the scooters or the wheelchairs--it's the excessive strollers with eight year-olds in them.

Wow - that's pretty rude. So your right to barrel through the parks supercedes the rights of folks who were just standing there and minding their own business? You & me are a couple of 260 pounders who would not enjoy such a confrontation!

Wow - that's pretty rude. So your right to barrel through the parks supercedes the rights of folks who were just standing there and minding their own business? You & me are a couple of 260 pounders who would not enjoy such a confrontation!

No, I don't barrel through crowds that are standing around--I am quite adept at manouvering the wheelchair around people. But if a large line of folks are coming at me, I ain't stopping.

In any event, I could take you Dan. HA!

And while I really don't want to be judgemental about this, I can't help but notice how many scooter riders are 400+ pounds, and are driving with a basket full of munchies which they continue to consume non-stop as they speed around the grounds. Doesn't seem right.

And Dan, even though I'm not one of the 400+ pounders you are judging, I was right with you up until that statement. I usually feel that your posts are "right on" but I think you're off base on this one.

While I agree that people should try to be healthy in their lives I don't believe it's up to us to judge someone's choices- would you feel the same way about the person who has smoked all their lives, has emphysema (not sure I spelled that right) and now can't walk around the park because of a lack of oxygen circulating in their body? Would the fact that they are a "normal" size somehow make it better that they were on a scooter to be able to enjoy WDW? Even though they may be taking several smoking breaks during the day? I am not getting into the argument about which "disease" is more self-afflicted or avoidable as I don't want a war here.

Should the super-obese either just stay home if they want to munch on treats or if they do come to WDW abstain from all treats (maybe they can carry around some carrot sticks) to prove that they're trying to better their lives and therefore "deserve" to enjoy WDW the only way they probably can? (i.e., on a scooter)

It's "judgments" like the above that drive people to hide--having the scooters available for all people that need them (for whatever reason) has opened up a new world for people that otherwise could not enjoy what we are all able to enjoy. When people are judged they will tend to shy away and go back in the shadows--not something I would like to see.

I could not believe the dirty looks he got from a few people when he would park his scooter and walk around a bit. It was as if people were offended that he was "able" to walk, yet using a scooter.
This is where I have to keep in the back of my mind that some people are just, well, ignorant. My mom, having a nerve condition that will make it difficult for her to walk more than a block or so at a time, will be on an ECV for our trip in April. I am mentally preparing myself for the glares and stares that we may get from judgmental people. But I dont care because I am there with my family, making memories that will last a lifetime. And if she has a great time, then my goal is complete.
... I can't help but notice how many scooter riders are 400+ pounds, and are driving with a basket full of munchies which they continue to consume non-stop as they speed around the grounds. Doesn't seem right.
Respectfully, I guess I would rather not pay attention to others and their choices and pay more attention to the parks and the smiles of my family.

This is the way I see it... Yes, it is true that there are people who get ECV's who are able-bodied and are perfectly capable of walking throughout the parks all day, every day throughout their trip and probably not get any more tired than anyone else walking. I hope and pray that they never have a real need to use an ECV or a wheelchair later in life just to be able to experience the parks, let alone have a normal, mobile life.

And While I agree that people should try to be healthy in their lives I don't believe it's up to us to judge someone's choices- would you feel the same way about the person who has smoked all their lives, has emphysema (not sure I spelled that right) and now can't walk around the park because of a lack of oxygen circulating in their body?

I guess what it comes down to for me is that I have a problem being compassionate if someone has done something to themselves. And keep in mind, I'm about 80 pounds over what I should be, so I understand the temptations of food. I also have a brother who bloomed up to 480, did the bypass surgery, and is now much healthier. Was it my brother's fault that he was in that condition? Yup, and he's the first to say that. When a smoker lies dying in the hospital and continues to suck smoke through the hole in the throat, is it the smoker's fault? You bet!

I really don't want to be judgemental, but I don't think people should be able to do whatever they want, get as unhealthy as they want, and then get a free pass. If someone's so fat that they can't walk around the parks for a day, so fat that they must have a scooter to get around, well, more power to 'em for continuing to try to be mobile. But I'll still look at that situation with some disdain, as that person is in a self-created situation.

And Dan, even though I'm not one of the 400+ pounders you are judging, I was right with you up until that statement. I usually feel that your posts are "right on" but I think you're off base on this one.

While I agree that people should try to be healthy in their lives I don't believe it's up to us to judge someone's choices- would you feel the same way about the person who has smoked all their lives, has emphysema (not sure I spelled that right) and now can't walk around the park because of a lack of oxygen circulating in their body? Would the fact that they are a "normal" size somehow make it better that they were on a scooter to be able to enjoy WDW? Even though they may be taking several smoking breaks during the day? I am not getting into the argument about which "disease" is more self-afflicted or avoidable as I don't want a war here.

Should the super-obese either just stay home if they want to munch on treats or if they do come to WDW abstain from all treats (maybe they can carry around some carrot sticks) to prove that they're trying to better their lives and therefore "deserve" to enjoy WDW the only way they probably can? (i.e., on a scooter)

It's "judgments" like the above that drive people to hide--having the scooters available for all people that need them (for whatever reason) has opened up a new world for people that otherwise could not enjoy what we are all able to enjoy. When people are judged they will tend to shy away and go back in the shadows--not something I would like to see.

Yeah Dan--a lot of over-weight/obese people are diabetic--maybe they need those snacks for their blood sugar. My wife is borderline diabetic (she takes glucophage, I believe) and she has to have snacks around all the time.

My wife looks perfectly normal, but she has a number of different illnesses that at times requires her to use a wheelchair when we are at the parks. Not too frequently, but from time-to-time. You can't judge a book by its cover.

But you can tell an eight year old to get the hell out of a stroller. HA!

I really don't want to be judgemental, but I don't think people should be able to do whatever they want, get as unhealthy as they want, and then get a free pass. If someone's so fat that they can't walk around the parks for a day, so fat that they must have a scooter to get around, well, more power to 'em for continuing to try to be mobile. But I'll still look at that situation with some disdain, as that person is in a self-created situation.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one :)

I don't think of someone on a scooter or in a wheelchair being on a "free pass"-- but doing the parks the only way they can. I would hate to deny them the opportunity because they think they are being judged. . . . .

Please don't condemn all scooter riders because you observed someone being rude. I don't own my own scooter (my Mom does--herniated disc) but on those days when I have had occasion to need one and have rented one it was a necessity--even if there are judgmental people who feel otherwise.

I agree. My mom injured her knee before our last WDW trip. She was able to walk for a certain amount of time before it started to hurt. We got her a scooter halfway through the trip to save her the trouble. She was able to park it and walk into the ride queues with us. I don't recall her getting "glared" at, nor would I glare at somebody for doing the same, unless they got out of the scooter and started doing cartwheels or something.

Wow - that's pretty rude. So your right to barrel through the parks supercedes the rights of folks who were just standing there and minding their own business? You & me are a couple of 260 pounders who would not enjoy such a confrontation!

Agree again. I get out of the way of people in wheelchairs because it's common courtesy. I could give a damn if the pusher is 6'4" or 6'10".

I guess what it comes down to for me is that I have a problem being compassionate if someone has done something to themselves.

I sort-of agree. True there are overweight people who are overweight because they're lazy, but not all of them. And even the ones who are out of laziness still don't deserve being 'glared at' for renting a scooter, IMO. For me it's like I said above; I would only be irked if I saw someone get out of their scooter and start breakdancing or something.

I just wanna say that I'm not at all hardline on any of this. I'm not going to run up to a fat person in a scooter and scream 'fatty fatty boo boo" while dancing around them holding a bag of ding dongs just out of reach. I do understand that there are people that due to diabetes or other glandular conditions really don't have much control over thier size (although I think they're really a small number). If I see a huge guy in a skooter whose arm is a blur as he's shoving chip after chip in, well that just ain't right. But then there are many health nuts out there who would look at me and sigh in disgust. To each our own . . .

During our stay this past December, we witnessed a family of 4 (two teenagers) that had all rented scooters. Only two of them could fit on the first bus from our resort to MK, so the other two had to wait for the next bus, in addition to another woman (who had a visible need for a scooter) behind them who I'm guessing ended up waiting for a 3rd bus. From their conversation, I gathered that the family of 4 had rented the scooters simply for convenience and to get around the parks quickly. (Personally, I use all the walking I do to justify the amount of yummy food I enjoy on vacation!) Not against the rules at all to rent scooters w/out a physical need, but it must have been frustrating for the woman who had to wait so long because she needed the scooter.

Additionally, my son was backed into by a woman in a scooter who pretty much didn't care who was behind her. Not seriously hurt, but it shook him up a little. A year ago, my parents witnessed a situation where a woman had her foot run over and obviously broken by a scooter driver. I've also witnessed people on foot pay no attention to those in scooters and just walk right in front of them. The problem isn't so much the number of scooters as it is the rudeness of some guests both on foot and on scooters.

Does it ruin my trip to WDW? Absolutely not! However, it does seem that there are more and more scooters each year and it adds to the congestion on the walking paths. It could just be that more people are realizing what a great place WDW is to visit for those with disabilities (visible or otherwise)!

During our stay this past December, we witnessed a family of 4 (two teenagers) that had all rented scooters. Only two of them could fit on the first bus from our resort to MK, so the other two had to wait for the next bus, in addition to another woman (who had a visible need for a scooter) behind them who I'm guessing ended up waiting for a 3rd bus. From their conversation, I gathered that the family of 4 had rented the scooters simply for convenience and to get around the parks quickly.
I wish I had seen this. I would have noted the company they had rented from (and the ECV numbers if visible) and reported them because all the rental companies I know of have an 18 year old minimum requirement for driving the ECV.

I have one variation/question. A friend's son was recently diagnosed with a disease (missing gene) that will cause degeneration in the use of his hands and feet. It makes it very difficult for him to walk (and he is not supposed to walk) long distances. The boy is 11. Cheshire--so all of the rental companies require someone to be 18? That means if they want him to have a scooter then they will have to buy one and transport it from California. They are going in May. If they buy him his own scooter (I believe he would be responsible) would WDW bar him from using it because he is under 18? (apparently not from the prior post)?

If you have an ECV (or power wheelchair) Disney cannot and will not stop a person from using it.

However, Disney, and all of the rental companies I am aware of, require that the person driving the ECV be 18 or older.

Personally, for an 11 year old visiting the parks, I would recommend getting a wheelchair from an off-site company, letting them know his size and weight. This way he would be able to get a chair which will fit him properly. And it should not be difficut for parents/friends/relatives to push him.

I have a couple of different views on this issue. First of all, my parents both have developed limited mobility in the last 10 years or so as they have aged. They would not want to go to a place like Disney because of all the walking. However, if it was their dream and they could do it with a chair or scooter, great! I would gladly help them to enjoy their lives!
On the other hand, I have a sister-in-law who has become morbidly obese in the last 5 years or so. We worry about her every day. It seems that using scooters, etc to get around is counter productive for these people. If they rent one on a trip, then that's one thing. If they have their own, when are they getting any activity to help them improve their health? My SIL does not have a scooter yet, but she is falling into a pattern of going out less and less because of her weight. Mind you I am not a little woman! I could lose some weight myself, but I do try to stay active and keep myself as healthy as I can so that I can enjoy doing things with my family. I wouldn't look in disdain at a heavy person on a scooter, but I may wonder to myself why they don't do more to help themseves.
People on scooters in the parks do not bother me so much. I know from pushing a stroller around the parks on our first trip that it is VERY difficult to have manners and get anywhere. I think I said "excuse me" a million times that trip and people seemed to not hear me. I'm glad to not need a stroller anymore! I can understand why the previous poster said he doesn't stop for large groups in his paths because sometimes, as they say, nice guys finish last!
The thing I find most bothersome is the bus situation. I do not for a moment believe that a magical gathering of 25 should be able to all board a bus ahead of those who have been waiting in line ahead of them. I read a suggestion somewhere on a post that they should allow 1 person to accompany the person with special needs, and the rest of the group can wait their turn. Seems simple to me.
Another idea would be to have special vehicles for the handicapped. Perhaps they could have smaller vans that could provide specialized service to these guests. It could be beneficial to the handicapped guest because their trips could be much quicker, and it could allow the regular buses to run faster as well.
There certainly isn't anything good about being handicapped. I personally wouldn't trade my healthy legs for being first on the bus. It just seems that things could be looked at so that everyone can feel that they are being respected.

The problem here is really nothing to do with the mode of transport, be it legs, pushchair or scooter; there is plenty of room for all of them at Disney. The problem is with ignorant people who have no consideration of those around them and they are to be found walking, pushing pushchairs and riding scooters. Ignore them and enjoy the view from the moral highground knowing you are courteous to your fellow Disney travellers.

The problem here is really nothing to do with the mode of transport... enjoy the view from the moral high ground knowing you are courteous to your fellow Disney travellers.

...well, DW was carefully designed (40 years ago) for 'pedestrian' visitor traffic within the parks.

Motor vehicles and pedestrians do not mix well anywhere, especially in open parks designed for huge numbers of people to meander randomly on foot thru a vast array of sights, sounds, and activities.

Certainly, courtesy and tolerance should be the norm -- but there's a physical limit to the crowds DW can comfortably adapt to under current circumstances.

The primary observation here is that there is a significant increase in scooters/rascals/ECV's at DW-- and that it has some negative consequences for average visitors.

...well, DW was carefully designed (40 years ago) for 'pedestrian' visitor traffic within the parks.


Then it 's about time it adapted. My home (market) town was designed for the horse and cart and retains its core layout. We manage - we evolved.