After viewing the Travel Channel show on DisneySea last night:

(1) OK - after seeing the rich detail and the wonderful design features of the park, DCA indeed does look like a cheap carny show compared to DisneySea

(2) It was very depressing to hear so many Disney people gush about the attention to detail and the emotion in which they described how they created the park with such commitment ....

(3) It was depressing again to hear about how Disney was expanding the empire to include Disney Studios Paris (show must have been produced before it opened) and Hong Kong DL - one had the impression that the creative guys would simply move on to the next "McDonalds Franchise" in the international scheme, never to be heard from again on domestic shores .........

Why should they bother?

Can you BLAME them for moving away if the most challenging assignment in the US is paiting bugmobiles for some lame choo choo train at DCA?


The US's loss is our gain.



"TDS.......LONG may she sail!!!!"

I have to admit that the funniest part of the special was when they showed the multiple hour long line for a chinese food product.:D Or better yet the fact that they won't open up another location becasue it would detract from the "celeb status" of the line.:D Don't mind me, I always love to laugh things like that (oh god the furbies, PS2, X-box, and so forth, man it's hard it imagine someone would wait in line for hours, days or even months for something like that.):D

N2: Yeah, the sausage cart thing was pretty interesting - here in the states you would think that they would open up 1 or 2 more stands to make sure everyone who wanted one would not have to wait more than 15-20 minutes ............

Other observations:

(1) Unbelievable how much expense and detail was incorporated into the fake ship and the theatre in the NY area - you compare that area alone to DCA's Paradise Pier and you can't imagine the same company was responsible for both creations .........

(2) Unbelievale how much detail was incorporated into the Mediterannean Village/Mira Costa Hotel area - architecture, gondolas, even simply the murals painted overhead with the hidden Mickeys - just goes to show what happens if somebody wants to spend the money to have something unique and compelling to bring visitors in once and then bring them back again and again .............

A very compelling park to say the least ...........

Originally posted by Nigel2
I have to admit that the funniest part of the special was when they showed the multiple hour long line for a chinese food product.:D Or better yet the fact that they won't open up another location becasue it would detract from the "celeb status" of the line.:D

Oh but there is another locale which sells the infamous "Gyoza Sausage Bun". It is located about a 5-minute walk from "Mysterious Island" in the "Seaside Snacks" cart in "Port Discovery". I haven't seen a queue longer than 5 people there. It's been there since park opening.

JoeInJpn
http://www.jtcent.com

OK - so all is not now as it was then when they filmed the show or the producers of the show wanted to have something spectacularly silly to talk about ..........

Originally posted by coronamouseman
OK - so all is not now as it was then when they filmed the show or the producers of the show wanted to have something spectacularly silly to talk about ..........

Well they probably use it as a way to take a break from just focusing on the major points of the park, for example the fashions :D (some of the shoes that the ladies were wearing are noted as a driving hazzard in Japan).

But it was rather odd that they didn't go into a lot of the attraction. Also, did anyone else notice that Mermaid Lagoon (or whatever it's called) looks exactly like Flick's Fun Fair only with underwater stuff?:)

You know, if the sausage cart did have a 2+ hours line all the time, how come they don't have a Fastpass for it?

Well then what would happen to the celeb status of waiting in line if all you needed was a FP? (This was both a and serious response):D

But the "Privileged" status of having a Fastpass to the "celeb" status attraction would certainly be more status, right?

It makes me laugh thinking what these people do with their food once they've ordered it. Do they walk around and parade it to the people still waiting in line? haha, but in all seriousness such an eliteist [sp?] attitude is more inline with my image of a Hong Kong resident. Being Asian myself, I've always figured Japanese people as being humble and reserved...not flashy people seeking celebrity status.

What really irks me is the fact that these people are spending so much time buying food rather than exploring a beautiful park!

Originally posted by JoeCanadian
It makes me laugh thinking what these people do with their food once they've ordered it. Do they walk around and parade it to the people still waiting in line? haha, but in all seriousness such an eliteist [sp?] attitude is more inline with my image of a Hong Kong resident. Being Asian myself, I've always figured Japanese people as being humble and reserved...not flashy people seeking celebrity status.

What really irks me is the fact that these people are spending so much time buying food rather than exploring a beautiful park!

Hehe, they only look reserved.:D This is the place where they have used hazardous fashion for centuries (now I am talking about the High Shoes, not the foot folding).:D

As the special also noted they dress up to go to the parks but I have a feeling that in a few deccades that will change since they clearly are becoming more like the West every year. I have a feeling they are going to go through a change like "Harrod's" did since a good deal of time ago everyone would dress up when they would go there, but now they just go there as they would go to a mall.:)

But don't worry they still are reserved (in the older generations), in some cases they are so reserved they have to take classes on how to laugh. I know it sounds silly but since they were always taught that showing emotion was bad they never learned how to show them.

I love seeing the new park, although I wish they would have focussed more on the really cool attractions and locations, rather than showing so much footage on the kitchens, kennel, and wardrobe area. I still loved seeing the special.

Here are my observations on the special.

A.) Could have been longer, the Storm Rider attraction was not shown, and only the exterior of Indy was shown, which are two of the most high profile rides in the park.

B.) Knowing the water is only waste deep is incredible. I actually thought they were pulling in water from the bay itself.

C.) It was odd seeing that special makes very little mention of who was actually responsible for funding the new park. The special leaves the impression that Disney built the park, and the OLC receives a very breif mention.

D.) Mentioning Disney Studios Paris invites only unfavorable comparison to DisneySea which is so far beyond in scale and quality than any Disney park created in the last ten years.

E.) Seeing what the Imagineers can truly create when the company is fully committed to providing the best to it's customers was sight to behold. The park is stunning. It's no wonder DisneySea has broken attendance records for it's first year of operation unlike DCA.

DisneySea should be the model for all future theme parks. Incredible detail, well thought out planning, immerisve environments, although it would take a level of financial committment that the current regime would never undertake to fix DCA.

Oh yeah, that makes me wonder how the boats go? Or are they not like the WS boats and just move on a track?

DBJ-Stormrider is not that good anyway.

It is basically just Star Tours 2001.

For all of the hype, I was expecting something like Spidey at IOA. I was sorely disappointed.

Nigel-how DARE you suggest that the Transit Steamers move on tracks!!!! ;)

They are fully free floating and independently powered and moving steamer ships.


And one of my ALL TIME favourite things in the ENTIRE park!!!!!!!!!



TDS.......LONG MAY SHE SAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brad....

Do you think the park is too movie/show based to fly anywhere outside of Japan? One of the main complaints against DCA is that it is almost a multiplex with too many movies. I noticed between Stormrider, Aladdin, and the theatre shows, that the actual rides for adults is only a handful.

Given what they have shown, I really only saw that Indy and Journey to the Center of the Earth could be considered non-movie thrill rides. 20,000 leagues and Sinbad I would classify as immersive rides that aren't thrill rides, but more of theme rides. Then that more or less leaves Aquatopia which looks okay, the kids section of Mermaid Lagoon, the play area of Fortress Exploration, and the double decker carousel.

Would this attraction mix fly if TDS was cloned and built in Florida? Or would it be too sedate for the American audiences, despite it's incredible design? I remember watching a Disney special about the problems they had with Epcot and Disney MGM studios when they first opened. (Although personally, Disney MGM should not have stopped, and kept adding). The end result is that both parks gained thrill rides to help draw people in. Would a Euro or American Disneysea park need more actual rides?

Very interesting questions DBJ. Thank you for the effort that went into them.

Brad....

Do you think the park is too movie/show based to fly anywhere outside of Japan?

No, I don't.

TDS is no less movie/show oriented than DCA. In fact, it has a better mix of FULL BLOWN incredible shows along with its 3D movies/simulators and ride through attractions. One of the things I thought was interesting was that some of the people that were not totally high on TDS did not actually go to see shows like Encore and Mystic Rhythms.

Both are WORLD CLASS entertainment offerings and I COULD NOT imagine missing them during a visit to TDS. I CAN understand somebody thinking that park was not all that fantastic if they missed these gems.

Encore is(or rather, WAS when I was there almost a year ago)an almost hour long "Best of Broadway" presentation, replete with moving sections of stage that transition performers on and off stage and other neat effects. Along with the plush and authentic theater setting, I COULD NOT believe I was at a theme park and not some concert hall in New York. Having the performers sing completely in English was a wonderful bonus.

Mystic Rhythms is one of the most distinct and best Disney shows you may ever have the privillege of viewing. Part Cirque de Soleil, part theatrical event, this show benefits from having no actual narration. The story is told through movement, dance, music and effects(including an actual working waterfall on stage). There is NOTHING like Mystic Rhythms at any of the seven other Disney parks I visited around the world last year.


One of the main complaints against DCA is that it is almost a multiplex with too many movies. I noticed between Stormrider, Aladdin, and the theatre shows, that the actual rides for adults is only a handful.

I respect your opinion but I think what constitutes an "adult ride"(or attraction)would be highly subjective.

Given what they have shown, I really only saw that Indy and Journey to the Center of the Earth could be considered non-movie thrill rides.

Sorry mate-you've lost me.

Are you saying that Disney parks need MORE thrill rides? Personally, I would rather have ONE JttCotE over six Gadget Go Coasters.

20,000 leagues and Sinbad I would classify as immersive rides that aren't thrill rides, but more of theme rides.

Oh, trust me, I have ridden JttCotE and TDS's Indy about ten times each and TRUST ME-they are immersive AND thrilling. The "immersiveness" of JttCotE begins as you enter the volcano area-you can smell the salt air, hear the cries of unseen seagulls flying somewhere overhead and the "toot toot" of the ever present TDS transit steamers that ply the waters through the core of the caldera. Look down into that water and you will see roiling and bubbling water exploding from the depths, hidden pressures from Mount Prometheus threatening to explode around you at any minute. Time it right and you just may actually see one of those explosions as the volcano erupts with balls of fire and smoke above you. If you are lucky enough to experience this, take a moment to look around you at the other guests who are also looking skyward.

You will see wonder and joy on their faces.

Get used to it.....you're at the TDR.

As you enter the HUGE cavern just outside the main queue area, you can see shafts of light coming in where a drilling vehicle has gotten stuck-it's massive drill core wedged into the rock, hanging precariously. From there, you can obtain a FP from the perfectly themed FP machines(done up in old brass with huge rivets, making them look like they have been there for fifty years), or head on over into the cave where the queue begins.

And THAT is JUST the area OUTSIDE the queue area, BEFORE the terravators and BEFORE the secondary queue cavern(filled with massive pistons moving up and down)BEFORE the ACTUAL ride!!!!

Then that more or less leaves Aquatopia which looks okay, the kids section of Mermaid Lagoon, the play area of Fortress Exploration, and the double decker carousel.

Yes-a great lot of secondary attractions that round out the mix for a standout park.

Aquatopia looks like a LOT of fun. At night, with the purple neon glowing, the area is ABSOLUTELY beautiful.

The "kids" section of Mermaid Lagoon is actually more akin to a Fantasyland area. Some people are comparing this to FFF. If so, I expect FFF to be inside a building that is themed to the HILT. In ML, as you watch the far walls, projected bubbles rise up to the ceiling, giving you the impression you are "Under the Sea". The ramp leading down into the main area has little dioramas and models recessed into the walls of underwater habitats and scenes from "The Little Mermaid", complete with static fronds of seaweed and other aqautic fauna.

For a "kid's section" it is themed more heavily and more fancifully(which IS why we visit Disney parks, right? To experience this kind of thing?)than parts of Fantasyland.

Add to the various rides there(again, themed more beautifully than their lame counterparts at DCA), the small play area with the jumping fountains directly to your right as you enter, the main play area which is more like a Tom Sawyer Island of rope bridges and caves and tunnels, filled with hologram Ursula's and Flotsam and Jetsam and special effects like the skeleton pictures from the HM.

Then add to THAT the live show that is shown there-with the entrance themed like the back of the sailing ship from The Little Mermaid.

Top that all off with beautiful calypso versions of music from "The Little Mermaid" that have you tapping your feet and if you have children, you will spend a good few hours exploring ALL there is to see in this place.

As for the Fortress-again, the building itself is INCREDIBLE. It is a very large and imposing structure that ITSELF is dwarfed by Mount Prometheus. Hidden away in various rooms and chambers are all sorts of secrets to find. There are too many to detail here and part of the charm of this place is in the searching and traipsing around. Add to all of this, the amazing views you have from the turrets and upper levels. The Fortress was one of the things I did not know much about beforehand but thoroughly enjoyed.

Lastly, the carousel-let me say that I did not ride it, but, I saw MANY adults that did. What I DID notice about it also is that the ride is BEAUTIFULLY housed in the large onion domed structure in Arabian Coast. It fits the area perfectly and seemed to be a lot of fun for adults and children.

Again, the attention to detail in building something that would be aesthetically pleasing yet fun to experience seemed to be a trademark of the TDR.

Would this attraction mix fly if TDS was cloned and built in Florida? Or would it be too sedate for the American audiences, despite it's incredible design?

I believe it would blow away the people who enjoy immersive Disney experiences(as it did for me), the people that know what Disney parks really exist for-to transport you to other times and other places. The coaster crowd may be a bit restless......but they can go to MM.

I remember watching a Disney special about the problems they had with Epcot and Disney MGM studios when they first opened. (Although personally, Disney MGM should not have stopped, and kept adding).

Epcot was an entirely different park which people were not expecting. People thought they were getting the MK mk II, and instead got a World's Fair type park.

As somebody that has been in retail for almost ten years however, I can tell you that people, in general are dumb.

They eventually got the idea.

As for MGM's problems-hey, build a half day park and what do you expect? Twelve years later they have STILL not learned their lesson.

I think that tv special you may be referring to was a Travel Channel special. I have it on tape. Every time I watch that and I hear, I think it is Tim O'Brien mention that people wanted more thrill rides at WDW, I "BOOOOO" loudly and throw stuff at him onscreen.

I never wanted Epcot to become MM and I am sure many of the people that loved Horizons, JII and WoM never wanted that either. What they SHOULD have said was that the suits, in their limited and shorstighted wisdom, in following trends and doing their biased market research polling DECIDED that Disney would follow the "New Coke" route and try to reinvent themselves.

Epcot was about massive omnimovers and more AA's than ANY other DisPark in the world. Now it's about putting you in a fridge and turning on cool air and running over traffic cones.

Lame.

The end result is that both parks gained thrill rides to help draw people in. Would a Euro or American Disneysea park need more actual rides?

No.

It would not "need" more rides. More(good ones)however would always be appreciated.

As it stands now, the place is beautiful beyond words with one of THE BEST attraction mixes of any Disney Park in the world.

Sure, American Waterfront could have used a major E Ticket(and I am NOT talking about the latest "quick fix" hand me down that seems to have become "THE SAVIOUR" attraction for parks across the world.....ALL HAIL ToT!!!!! :rolleyes: ), I am talking about what was meant to originally go in there(Tin Lizzie).


What is TRULY exciting for ME is that TDS opened as a fully realized park.

I cannot even imagine what it will be like in ten or even twenty years time. You see, at the moment, TDS does NOT offer AP's-which makes their recent milestone of TEN MILLION visitors in roughly ten months even MORE mind boggling. EVERY one of those people were full price paying guests-not comp'd in with desparate measures and tokens cut from the back of Frosted Flakes boxes.

Once TDS starts offering its own AP's(or resort hopper AP's-rumored not to be starting until around the fifth anniversary in 2006), the place will be INUNDATED with floods of Japanese guests.

Now, are you familiar with the Japanese custom of "omiage"? Look at that word and it MAY seem similar to the English word, "homage", as in paying homage to somebody. You see, wherever they go, Japanese consider it custom to buy gifts for friends and family back home. The OLC makes BILLIONS from the sale of the tasteful and charming merchandise which can be found at the TDR.

Once the AP's go on sale and the Japanese can visit this place with the frquency that they can now visit its sister park, sales of merchandise will increase exponentially. Where do you think all of those profits will go?

Eisner's bank account?

I highly doubt the head rat will see THIS year out as DisCo head cheese, let alone 2006.

No-the OLC will begin plowing the funds back into TDS(as they have done for twenty years with TDL)in the form of upgrades, new shows, seasonal events, bigger and better attractions and in keeping TDS as beautiful as the day it opened.


I have all but given up on new innovations in Disney park in the US. For me, the TDR is THE LEADER in theme park experiences. While DCA stumbles and teeters like an ungainly chubby infant taking its first steps with a full and unchanged diaper, TDS has an amazing and BRIGHT future which can only get better.


TDS......LONG MAY SHE SAIL!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip man, they are just boats.:D

I can't remember, is there a ride in the American Waterfront or just the shows?

That's a pretty funny description of Test Track. I'm still not sure why they thought it would be exciting to be almost a crash test dummy in a vehicle testing experience. A huge waste of money that could have been put toward something incredible, like a new Indy ride for MGM. Mission Space actually sounds like they are more on the right track to deliver an immersive ride that combines theme and thrill.

It is my hope that the best of TDS rides trickles it's way to Florida or CA. How much more exciting would DL be if they dropped the knock off of the Winnie the Pooh ride and instead added Journey To the Center of the Earth? Or put 20,000 Leagues or Aquatopia in the vacant sub lagoon at DL? Or put Indy Crystal Caverns into MGM in FL? Or Stormriders, or indeed Port Discovery, into Epcot? Or adding the Aladdin and Sinbad attractions to Epcot? Mermaid Lagoon would have fit into DCA, complete with the castle which is quite beautiful, but instead the main visual focus of Flik's Fair is the huge carny tent. Ugh.

With American management shooting for SFMM style rides in DCA (and ironically failing to even outdo SFMM or Knott's for those types of rides), I have amazing respect for what OLC delivered to their customers.

Question: During the Animal Kingdom special, they mentioned that they have huge acres to build on if they decided to expand. Would TDS be the perfect fit as the next FL Disney park? Or should they continue to expand the existing parks?

They should DEFINITELY expand what they have there now.

In fact, I would not care if there was not a new park at WDW for TWENTY years(although, I cannot see it happening).

Just build out and maintain what they have now.

As for would DisneySea be a good park for Florida?

Yes and no.

DisneySea, by its very name should be by a large body of water. When you stand on the deck of the Columbia and look out over Tokyo Bay and can imagine yourself heading out to sea, you will understand.


I hope the CURRENT regime DOES NOT attempt a DS style park in Florida.

I want somebody there that is going to give it the same treatment EPCOT Center got back in the late '70's/early '80's.

My personal feeling is that should take a look at bringing a similar level of quality to new expansions. Animal Kingdom is in need of a severe overhaul in terms of vision for the park. Another funny moment is when, during the two specials, AK was proud of thiet thatched roofs which were authentic and the big tree was the grandest accomplishment of the park. Then, in the next special, they reveal that Mysterious Island is a 160 ft. tall working Volcano, with two AAA rides!

And NOW you're starting to understand why those of us that rave about the TDR look down just a BIT on the new US developments.

And there are others of us who see the good and bad in both Tokyo and the U.S. parks. I have constructive criticism to add to every Disney park I've visited, TDS included.

In general, TDS is not as great as people who've never been there think and DCA is not as bad as some people here would have you think.

I think the primary problem is that OLC knew exactly what to give their audience in TDS, and Disney itself is unable to accomplish the same goals. American management is clueless and went in the completely wrong direction with DCA. The only proof needed is that TDS broke attendance records while DCA struggles to find any audience.