There have been a lot of rumors floating around. The following are two paraphrases from the official internal Disney World web site. These have just been posted today.

Disney Dining Experience - Effective January 1 - An 18% gratuity will be automatically added to all DDE bills for table service (including buffet) and lounges regardless of the party size. It will not apply to any counter service or snacks.

Disney Dining Plan - An automatic 18% gratuity will be added to all groups of six or more people. In addition, no matter the party size, if there are separate items, such as alcoholic beverages or add-ons, an automatic 18% gratuity will be added to that part of the bill. Note this applies only to table service (including buffet); it does not apply to counter service or snacks.

CF: Thanks for the info!
A question, if you happen to know or if you can share...
If the level of service received calls for such, are you able to reduce or increase the amount of gratuity?

My experience with forced gratuities at Disney in the past has been that you can always increase the gratuities. If you are using a credit card, they will typically even include a line for "Additional Gratuity" on the charge slip.

I don't recall ever trying to reduce the gratuity at Disney, although I have done so at a few other places where it was automatic. They obviously won't make it easy for you to do so, but if you ask for a manager and state your case you might have a chance.

I believe that some states do have laws on the books stating that restaurants have to reduce or eliminate forced gratuities if the customer requests it, but I don't know if Florida is one of them. I don't really know for sure, but such a law might very well not apply to a dining plan guest either, though, as the gratuity could be considered to be contractual.

Personally, I think forced gratuities should actually be made illegal. Restaurants should be required to state the actual price up-front and if they use the term "gratuity", they should be required to stick to the definition of the word, which clearly indicates something at a guest's discretion. I also find it really troubling that Disney is actually forcing the gratuities at rates that are higher than customary, essentially automatically assuming above-average service. An automatic 18% gratuity for a buffet (where 10% is customary) is particularly inappropriate, in my opinion.

-Jeff

Actually, as of 2005, 18% became the national average. I haven't seen figures for anything more recent but I'd assume it's continued to rise since then (tenths or hundredths of a percentage point, I would assume).

Also, I'd argue that there's definitely a case for including an auto-grat. Lots of people, especially foreigners who aren't used to the custom, just don't know what an appropriate tip is. Even Americans sometimes have trouble working out the percentages especially when you think about that lots of Americans work out little shortcuts to make it easier. As an example, when I lived in Washington state, the sales tax was just over 8%. All I had to do was double the tax (and adjust slightly to taste) and I was leaving a decent tip. I don't happen to know what the tax is in Florida, I'm not great at math without a pen and scratch paper, and my new cell phone doesn't have a built in calculator (darned Motorola razors!). When I was a waiter, adding an auto-grat was up to me in many cases. I usually would not. Often that led to a better tip. A couple of times, though, it really stung when someone would tip inappropriately or stiff me entirely. In many states, waiters are required to declare a minimum percentage of their gross sales as tips, whether they make that or not. In those states, if a waiter gets stiffed, essentially they are being forced to pay for the privilege of waiting on you. In a place where there are so many visiting foreigners and probably a high percentage of people who simply don't know how to tip correctly, I feel just fine with an 18% auto-grat being levied to help offset some of a waiter's hardship. If your service is bad, you should be taking it up with a manager anyway, not just because of the tip but also so the waiter (or the problem if it's not the waiter's fault) can be appropriately dealt with by their superiors so other guests won't be faced with the same issues.

[Disclaimer: no disrespect to non-Americans is intended by this post. I'm simply aware that lots of other countries don't have the custom of tipping or the custom is dealt with differently. I'm not passing judgment on that, I'm simply stating my opinion on what I feel is a viable solution to that. (In fact, I've heard and somewhat agree with the opinion "why don't you silly Americans simply pay your waiters adequately?") :D]

Actually, as of 2005, 18% became the national average. I haven't seen figures for anything more recent but I'd assume it's continued to rise since then (tenths or hundredths of a percentage point, I would assume).

I've always heard 15-20% was the typical, which does average to 18%. Still, I would generally consider the customary baseline should be the low end of that range (15%). Even if an automatic gratuity is justifiable, I certainly still think that anything above the customary minimum should be the customer's discretion.

Personally, I usually tip 15% for service that is purely adequate (the server does his/her job, but isn't notably attentive, friendly, or helpful), but pretty regularly will go to 20% or even higher if the service is good. I tip on the higher side more often than not and would guess that my average is probably even higher than the 18%, but I still absolutely believe that should be my choice.

Also, I'd argue that there's definitely a case for including an auto-grat. Lots of people, especially foreigners who aren't used to the custom, just don't know what an appropriate tip is. Even Americans sometimes have trouble working out the percentages especially when you think about that lots of Americans work out little shortcuts to make it easier.

I think this is a good argument for restaurants to pay the wait staff appropriately. Tacking on mandatory extra charges and then pretending that it is a "gratuity" is hardly the best solution for all of this. The fact that these customs are not common in other countries and not even well understood in this one pretty much shows that it isn't exactly the best way to compensate employees.

When I was a waiter, adding an auto-grat was up to me in many cases.

This is something that I think is exceptionally inappropriate. How in the world can a gratuity even begin to serve its purpose as an incentive for quality service when the discretion is shifted from the customer to the employee? That simply makes no sense.

In many states, waiters are required to declare a minimum percentage of their gross sales as tips, whether they make that or not. In those states, if a waiter gets stiffed, essentially they are being forced to pay for the privilege of waiting on you.

I agree that is a problem. Again, I don't think that forcing the customers to pay the gratuity is the solution, though. Restaurants absolutely should be required to pay their employees according to the same minimum wage laws that all other employers have to follow and the tax laws need to be based on actual income and not some projection.

That said, I do acknowledge this as a concern and I realize that most states do, unfortunately, still allow servers in restaurants to be paid less than minimum wage on the assumption that tips will make up the difference. A quick online search found that currently only 7 states (Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington) are exceptions to that. Since this is a WDW thread and Florida is not one of those states, obviously this is a potential issue. Does anyone know if Disney pays below minimum wage to their servers?

If your service is bad, you should be taking it up with a manager anyway, not just because of the tip but also so the waiter (or the problem if it's not the waiter's fault) can be appropriately dealt with by their superiors so other guests won't be faced with the same issues.

I agree with this to a degree, although I think there are many different levels of inadequate service and, thus, different appropriate responses. I do think there are plenty of occasions where the service might not drop to the level where it really seems appropriate or necessary to get a manager involved and, possibly, initiate formal disciplinary procedures. In those cases, I would tend to think that a visible reduction in tips would probably help most servers realize that maybe they need to become a bit more attentive.

Overall, I think my big issue is that gratuities generally do serve a valid purpose that I tend to think is seriously undermined once they become a mandatory charge dictated by the restaurant instead of an optional service acknowledgment given at the discretion of the customer. If this is no longer viewed as being valuable, maybe Disney (and other restaurant operators) should just abandon gratuities altogether and simply start adding "service charges" or, better yet, just factor it into the prices.

-Jeff

I agree with a vast majority of what you said. I do think the tipping situation is ludicrous in the US and should be abolished. I also think change is always slow to come, so I wouldn't recommend that you hold your breath! ;)

Just a couple of things to add for clarification, though:

1) 15% Was the national average through the late 90's. 18% being the new average is an increase, not the expected average of normal people's tips. The averaging system includes people who are getting stiffed on tips. That means that most people are now willing to go over the old 20% upper limit.

2) I agree that an auto-grat being up to the waiter may appear to be somewhat inappropriate, but there are some things that need to be taken into account. At most restaurants nation-wide, waiters have to input their food order at a computer terminal. In many cases the computer asks how many people are at the table. In some cases, there is simply an "auto-grat" button. Either way, if the waiter thinks that they are waiting on a reasonable person who should understand the custom, they can go ahead and not hit the button, or lie about the number of guests. Let's face facts: if I'm waiting on you or me, I'd assume that a mature guest having a nice meal knows how to tip. At the same time, said mature guest might not have noticed the bit at the bottom of the menu declaring that there *may* be an 18% gratuity added to a party of 8 or more. I don't want that guest to be offended and not tip me the extra I deserve, so I avoid the auto-grat button like the plague! If I'm waiting on a table full of high school kids who are having a soda and plate of fries each, I'll probably auto-grat for fear of getting stiffed (if they even stick around to pay the bill!). It's really a form of profiling. I'm not for it, but it's the way things are. [note: things are probably not this way at Disney. They probably have very strict rules against a waiter taking this sort of thing into their own hands. I'm just saying this is how it is in a lot of places--all of the places I've worked as a waiter at least...]

3) Tips don't mean the same thing they used to. It's not a matter of being an incentive for good service, it's a matter of your waiter being able to pay their rent. If a guy mops a floor at a Wall-Mart for a living, and does it really badly one night, he doesn't make less money for doing it than he did the night before. If he does it badly enough, he might not have the job long, but short of being fired, his pay doesn't get adjusted for the quality of work.

4) If a company doesn't have to pay their waiters full minimum wage, they won't. On that level, I'm sure Disney doesn't.

I'm just providing these points for clarification. I feel like the situation looks a little different when you've been in the other guy's shoes. I'm very happy to have moved on to a career where I don't have to deal with this insane form of stress, but I'm just saying I've been there, and it sucks. :)

Personally, I think forced gratuities should actually be made illegal. Restaurants should be required to state the actual price up-front and if they use the term "gratuity", they should be required to stick to the definition of the word, which clearly indicates something at a guest's discretion. I also find it really troubling that Disney is actually forcing the gratuities at rates that are higher than customary, essentially automatically assuming above-average service. An automatic 18% gratuity for a buffet (where 10% is customary) is particularly inappropriate, in my opinion.

Per Florida state statute (509.214 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0509/SEC214.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh0509-%3ESection%20214)):

Notification of automatic gratuity charge.--Every public food service establishment which includes an automatic gratuity or service charge in the price of the meal shall include on the food menu and on the face of the bill provided to the customer notice that an automatic gratuity is included.

I can't find anything in the statute about obligation to remove or reduce the gratuity on request (not that I'm skilled at searching Florida statute). Though if it is within the managers actual ability I'm sure most would do it if you raise a stink (just keep in mind that by talking to the manager about a specific waiter you are getting them into a lot more trouble than simply stiffing them on the tip would be).

Personally I normally tip in about a 12% to 20% range. Any time I tip outside that range, whether higher or lower, I will discuss that I did so and why with a manager.

If my tip is above the range, that will allow the manager to be aware of the level service and that I am more than likely going to come back and/or recommend the location..

If my tip is below the range, the manager should be aware either the server is not having a good day or is less than competent and possibly driving away customers. I have had prices reduced, or even meals comped, or provided with a coupon for the next visit - however, I do not expect anything special when I report a person. I have also been provided with a coupon or card for a freebie on my next visit when I have complimented the server.

just an FYI.. i can't give a source for it, but ..

Service Charge for Parties of Six (6) or more (effective January 1, 2008).

An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be included on all guest checks of parties of six (6) or more. The guests will be advised of the policy by the first Host/Hostess (i.e., DRC, Guest Services, Concierge, or Seating Host/Hostess) to accept the guest's reservations. In addition to the above, the policy will be printed on the menus. If a party of six (6) or more, regardless of reservation size, arrives and is seated at the same table and receives separate checks, the automatic service charge shall apply. If a party of six (6) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split and seated at separate tables, with the same server regardless of the number of checks, the automatic service charge shall apply. If the party of six (6) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split, seated at separate tables with different servers, receives separate checks, and these checks are paid for by separate individuals, the automatic service charge does not apply.

In situations where our guests refuse to comply with our policy, it will be the responsibility of the service person to locate a Manager prior to the guests leaving the restaurant so that Management can speak with the guests. If the service person fails to involve a Manager in the situation prior to the guests departing the restaurant, or receives discipline for poor service, the Company will not be responsible for the difference between what the guest left and eighteen percent (18%) of the guest's food and beverage total. The eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be automatically added to the guest check and will be calculated on the food and beverage totals. The server will not be required to inform the guest that a service charge has been included, unless he/she is asked by the guest. A twenty percent (20%) service charge will be automatically added to parties of six (6) or more only at Victoria and Albert's. With exception to the amount of the gratuity, all of the above aforementioned is applicable to Victoria and Albert's.

I don't recall ever trying to reduce the gratuity at Disney, although I have done so at a few other places where it was automatic.

The only time I ever had to reduce an automatic gratuity (and I can't remember if it was at a Disney restaurant or not), it was a very uncomfortable experience. I had to find the manager, who then called the waiter over to make the change to my bill, and then the waiter was the one who stood there while I was signing the receipt. Very uncool, and way too confrontational to have been worth it for me.

I'm with you, Jeff - these mandatory gratuities need to be outlawed. If there's a problem with international travellers not knowing what's customary, I'm all for the information card on the table. It could be worded very carefully so it's not a demand for money - just a suggestion as to what's customary in American restaurants.

From my Trip report from October~~~
We are all on the DDP.... All the food was really good and the service was really good. We had a few drinks and some sushi not in the DDP so we were charged separately for them. So every one divides the check up and then I realize they have no intention of tipping on the separate check and go so far as to have the automatic gratuity removed!:eek: They said they tipped her already on the DDP and did not want to tip twice. Oy!~~~

This was at Wolfgang Puck's restaurant. Our party consisted of 6 adults, 2 children (ages 11 & 8). My personal tipping style is usually a bit high, I almost always leave about 20% unless service is terrible then I take money off for each thing that bugs me and more money if there are no apologies from the server. I never adjust the tip for poor food, they have nothing to do with that. Having the tip removed at WP was simple, the others whined at the waitress and she had it removed, no manager and no fuss. I was mortified but took care of what I could for the tip with the waitress, it was not the whole thing but it was what I had in cash.

just an addendum... yes, in a perfect world, there are no such things as mandatory gratutities, but keep this in mind as well:

the minimum wage in FL is currently $6.79/hr. the minimum wage for tipped positions (which in FL is defined by those making more than $30 a month in tips) is the minimum wage less $3.02, or currently $3.77/hr. Disney pays slightly (in the truest sense of the word) above that.

so i don't really think it unreasonable to make it inclusive of the bill on larger groups because i have to assume there's some historical justification for it.

as the policy i quoted above indicates, it's the guest's unwritten 'right' to refuse the mandatory tip, but the server also has a right to make it harder for the guest to do so and will have to suffer the consequences if the guest still insists on not paying it.

i guess the policy also implies that if you want to avoid the auto tip for large groups, just be seated at different tables with different servers

I guess I don't have that much trouble with the mandatory tip for large groups, as this has become somewhat standard over the years. What I don't like is the mandatory tip if I use my DDE discount card. I'm a solo visitor, and it seems completely arbitrary that they've elected to force me, one of their better customers, to tip just because I'm using a discount card.

In September, two adults, DDP. 18% was added to any drinks or extras ordered. That part is not new.

pixiedust, this has been the way the DDP has worked since it started, with that 18% tip being paid by Disney. Now they've taken the 18% off of the DDP (not paid by Disney - they expect YOU to shell out of pocket for it), and they've added the mandatory 18% to the Disney Dining Experience discount card (DDE). So the DDP has less value than before, while requiring you to pay for your own tip. And the DDE card, while giving you 20% off, takes it away from you again with the 18% tip. True, most folks will tip near that anyway, so for me it's not like any more money is coming out of my pocket with the DDE. I just don't like the principle, where I don't have the choice to tip what I feel is warranted.

it is a valid issue, no doubt. but know you can refuse it.

the real gotcha is most on the DDE who didn't want to do the math would just consider the 20% discounted amount to be the tip amount. so in a lot of cases, this new policy (very slightly) hurts the server.

honestly, even with the DDP, i think it's for the better. firstly, i don't mind if it cuts down on the DDP purchases because the restaurants were being overbooked as it is (some anyway). second, there were always a handful of servers who would insert cards that indicated that tip was NOT covered by the DDP. while i sympathize for servers who can't treat their DDP-covered tips as they could cash (even though 100% are supposed to be reported), that was pretty despicable, so at least this way it's now true and the guests are protected from those who would prefer their tips in cash anyway.

pixiedust, this has been the way the DDP has worked since it started, with that 18% tip being paid by Disney. Now they've taken the 18% off of the DDP (not paid by Disney - they expect YOU to shell out of pocket for it)...

You're close, Dan. They did add on the 18% auto-grat for extra items already (separate stuff like extras or alcohol), and they made you pay for it before. I know it was that way when I was there in November. The difference now is that Disney is not paying the tip for you on the normal DDP stuff. And they're not making you pay anything in particular. You're still free to tip whatever you wish for your meal, but your glass of wine will show up on a separate check and it'll have an 18% auto-grat.

I'm thinking that's probably for the same reason as the DDE auto-grat. A lot of people don't know that, if you receive a discount, the tip is supposed to be calculated using the total *before* the discount. In the same vein, I'd bet that they just didn't want to risk a waiter getting a table of DDP customers who go through three or four bottles of wine with their meal, pay for the wine and then leave thinking the tip's been taken care of because the DDP said the tip's included! That could really screw up a server's totals. I'd further bet that they're simply leaving that system in place to (a) address any bad-tipping issues that could arise from getting rid of it and (b) so the DDE people have someone to commiserate with! :p

By the way, I don't feel like rereading to see who said it, but that's a good note about that 100% of a waiter's tips are supposed to be reported as taxable income. It doesn't happen and that's why those silly tip reporting minimums are in place in most states, but it's a good note that all servers are trained on.

You're close, Dan. They did add on the 18% auto-grat for extra items already (separate stuff like extras or alcohol), and they made you pay for it before. I know it was that way when I was there in November. The difference now is that Disney is not paying the tip for you on the normal DDP stuff. And they're not making you pay anything in particular. You're still free to tip whatever you wish for your meal, but your glass of wine will show up on a separate check and it'll have an 18% auto-grat.

I don't think this is correct. I don't think there is ANY auto-gratuity on DDP, whether it's for alcohol or for food. You're right in that, under the old plan, you'd be expected to tip on extra stuff like alcohol or extra appetizers & desserts, and that this showed up with a separate ticket. But I don't think any of that had any gratuity added automatically. The tip was paid for the standard DDP stuff, and then I was expected to both pay for AND tip for the extra stuff. I suppose I could go back and look at some of my dining receipts, as I usually have a glass of wine or 2 with dinner. But this is just another reason I don't use the plan any more - too much thinking required while I'm on vacation!

...too much thinking required while I'm on vacation!

Oh, I found it to be quite the opposite. I enjoyed that the 18% auto-grat was on there (and I guarantee you it was, at least in November, at every TS place we used the DDP and got something extra) because it took the thinking out of the situation. If the service was just adequate (we never had truly *bad* service) I'd just sign it and leave knowing all tips were taken care of. If the service was great (as it was at a few places, most notably Wolfgang Puck's and the Coral Reef [also Le Cellier, but the great server wasn't *our* server]) we'd just toss some extra cash on the table and be done with it. Made it about a million times easier.

On the other hand, I do feel there's a level where it's not that great a benefit. On my upcoming trip, I'm really being forced to play food by ear. As such, I feel that the DDP would be an added burden rather than making life easier. Like you, I believe thinking is for work. Disney is play and very little thinking should be required... :)

Kwahati, I'm getting my plans and my years mixed up. Of course in this past year the gratuity was included in the DDP, and was paid by Disney. But I don't think it was automatically added on (to be paid by ME) if I got extra, like wine with dinner. I was expected to cover the extra, and to tip on the extra. I had no problem with this.

As I said, the thing that screwed me up was the nice dinners requiring the 2 credits. It just sorta made the whole week a little harder to figger out for me. And now that the gratuity is no longer included, it's even less of a value.

But I don't think it was automatically added on (to be paid by ME) if I got extra, like wine with dinner.

Perhaps they just started that policy early, but I am *sure* the 18% auto-grat was being charged to me on extras like wine ordered alongside the DDP in November.

Aside from that, I'm with you on everything else. :)

My DDP trip was in October of 2006, so it may indeed have been different. Then again, after enjoying a glass of wine or three, I just might have missed the added-on gratuity and double tipped! I'll have to pull some receipts tonight and investigate. . .

My DDP trip was in October of 2006, so it may indeed have been different. Then again, after enjoying a glass of wine or three, I just might have missed the added-on gratuity and double tipped! I'll have to pull some receipts tonight and investigate. . .

If you have receipts from Oct `06, you're a better man than I. I don't even have most of my receipts from Nov `07! A month is too long ago, and I don't like to dwell on how much I spent! :p

Here is a quote from an official Disney source

For Packages traveling in 2008:

Number of Meals

The Magic Your Way Package plus Deluxe Dining includes one (1) Breakfast; one (1) Lunch; one (1) Dinner; and two (2) Snacks per person, per night of a package stay for everyone ages 3 and over on the package. The two (2) Snacks do not need to be purchased at the same time. The Magic Your Way Package plus Deluxe Dining also includes one (1) Resort Refillable Drink Mug per person, per package (only eligible for refills at Quick Service locations in the Guest's Disney Resort hotel). Applicable taxes are included.

Using the Meals

Guests should present their Key to the World Card prior to ordering so the meals may be charged to the Deluxe Dining Plan. For all meal periods, Guests ages 3-9 must order from the children's menu where available. Guests under the age of three may share from the adult's plate or a separate meal may be purchased a la carte from the menu.

Tracking Meals

Meal usage is tracked electronically using the Key to the World Card. Every time the Magic Your Way Package plus Deluxe Diningis used, the cashier or server will present the Guest with a receipt showing the remaining balance of electronic coupons. In addition, Guests may visit or call their Resort Front Desk or Lobby Concierge for assistance.

Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Magic Your Way Package plus Deluxe Dining (e.g. alcoholic beverages).

Table Service Meals

Gratuities are not included.

Character Dining

Character Dining experiences are located in the Theme Parks or Disney Resort Hotels. Gratuities are not included except when dining at Cinderella’s Royal Table, gratuities are included.

Signature Restaurants

Gratuities are not included.

Disney Dinner Shows

Shows offer family-style dining with live entertainment show performances throughout the meal. Gratuities are included.

Private In-room Dining / Pizza Delivery

Gratuities are included for both.

Grand Gathering Experiences

If you have eight or more in your party, you can join other Grand Gathering parties in select exclusive Disney experiences. Gratuities are included.
Note the red and green and bolding were in the original.

OMG! :confused: :confused: :confused: