Recent email to me.. note the bolded section. VERY interesting. Not sure I agree with it, especially if you recieve POOR service.

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Greetings from the Disney Dining Experience Team!

As 2008 quickly approaches, you will begin to see some exciting new developments for the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program. You asked and we listened! Effective November 11, 2007, you will no longer have to wait 3 – 6 weeks to receive your permanent membership card(s).

Guest Relations locations at Epcot®, MAGIC KINGDOM® Park, DISNEY’S ANIMAL KINGDOM® Theme Park, Disney-MGM Studios, DOWNTOWN DISNEY® West Side, and DOWNTOWN DISNEY® Marketplace will now be able to print permanent Disney Dining Experience membership cards for immediate use. This service is designed for existing and new members. Cards produced at the Guest Relations locations will be printed on paper stock similar to the annual pass tickets.

The Disney Dining Experience office will still be available to take applications for current and new members, via the phone, fax or mail for those who do not want to take advantage of the in-park service. Membership cards ordered through the Disney Dining Experience office will be received within 2 - 3 weeks of purchase.

All Guests who have ordered their Disney Dining Experience membership cards prior to November 11, 2007 date will have to pickup their temporary cards at the main entrance Epcot® Guest Relations. Your permanent card will be sent through the mail and arrive in 3-4 weeks from the date of purchase.

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Cheers!

Yes, I got the same email (it was sent to all DDE card holders).

I don't like it. I always tip at least 20% (and more if the service is exceptional). Thus, in my case, the servers are going to loose 2%, as I'm not going to bother to add on.

If I get bad service, I guess I will just complain to the manager.

Um...is there information missing here? Is this just that DDE people will get the mandatory tip added at table service restaurants or is that everybody and every restaurant including counter service and snack carts? (I would assume that it's everybody because if it was just DDE, that would negate most of the benefit, wouldn't it?) I don't think I like this one bit... But maybe there's been a lot of trouble with people who don't tip (a lot of foreigners don't get the concept because they don't do it in their countries) and the money they lose from decent tippers will be more than made up by the new-found tips from people who would not have tipped otherwise...:confused:

I think it applies to all table service locations where you are served by a waiter/waitress. I understand the lack of tipping from foreignors and the like, but I think we show our satisfaction/dissatisfaction through our tipping procedures. I would assume since DDE is mostly Floridians, the mandatory tip should be excluded from these proceedings -- but I suppose fairness is what they're after here.

It also goes in conjunction I think with their changes to the pre-paid meals for tourists where they've now discontinued tips being included in the meal packages.

It does kind of sound like a gratuity is being tacked on regardless of whether it is a table service restaurant it does say "All food and beverage locations" and not "All table service establishments"

I think what they were referring to is all "food and beverage establishments (included in the DDE discounts list)" -- which would all be table service -- since it was an email from DDE about memberships.

I think what they were referring to is all "food and beverage establishments (included in the DDE discounts list)" -- which would all be table service -- since it was an email from DDE about memberships.

I follow that, but that doesn't seem to make sense as my understanding is that DDE only saves you about 20% to begin with, right? So wouldn't an auto-grat of 18% take almost all the benefit out of DDE? So it seems to me that this must apply to everybody (not just DDE members). I'm curious what this means for DDP guests. Will they get a bill for 18% of the price they would have paid? This is weird and, I repeat, I don't think I like it at all... At most places I waited tables (yeah, I've done that job in my life) it was somewhat up to the waiter whether to add an auto-grat. Usually I would not. Sometimes it backfired, but usually I would get more out of assuming that people know how to tip and will do so fairly.

Considering I used the 20% discount to figure out the tip, adding in 18% will result in a decrease in the tip of at least 2% of the bill.

My guess is they're doing this because of the Dining Plan change - and they can't automatically add the tip for just those on the plan (well, they could, but that wouldn't be 'fair' now would it :rolleyes:)

ETA: I don't think of it as a 20% discount, I think of it as 'tip included'.

I follow that, but that doesn't seem to make sense as my understanding is that DDE only saves you about 20% to begin with, right? So wouldn't an auto-grat of 18% take almost all the benefit out of DDE?

No. If you never left a tip when you dined without the DDE card, then sure, you would only save 2%. But you do leave a tip (don't you?).

You still save 20% off the meal - drinks included. I normally leave a 20% tip, so this change is saving me another 2% on top of my 20% DDE savings.

No. If you never left a tip when you dined without the DDE card, then sure, you would only save 2%. But you do leave a tip (don't you?).

Okay, you caught me on my fudged math (maybe Enron needs another accountant!?!) But on some level, having the tip be forced makes me not want to pay it! Beyond that, it should be someone's right to tip a lower amount if they need to communicate to the server that there were problems. This change might "save you 2%" most of the time, but I can't believe that there was never a time that you adjusted a tip to reflect exceptionally good or bad service. Now there's no way to do it for negative reasons and less desire to do it for positive reasons. (It kinda makes me want to sit there and get exact change so that all they get is their 18% and not a penny more...of course I wouldn't because I know it's not the waiter's fault, but still it bothers me that much...I don't think I'm cheap, but I don't like hidden charges, and this feels like one. Jack up the price of the food if you want and give the waiters a cut of that if you're so worried that I'm not tipping enough but tacking on a mandatory charge at the end that only a few people knew about in advance? That level of sleaziness is somewhere between a used car salesman and the federal government.)

Honestly, I'm really thrilled that the DDP still includes tip for my upcoming trip. It makes it a lot easier because I've pretty much written that money off already so if the service is lousy, I don't have to trouble myself, but if the service is good, I can bust out some extra cash and let the waiter know to keep up the good work (and I'm hoping I can find reasons to do this! I'd way rather leave extra tips than get crap service!). I kinda wish they'd just increase the price of the DDP by 18 or 20% and keep the tip included if that's what this whole thing is getting at.

Guest Relations locations at Epcot®, MAGIC KINGDOM® Park, DISNEY’S ANIMAL KINGDOM® Theme Park, Disney-MGM Studios, DOWNTOWN DISNEY® West Side, and DOWNTOWN DISNEY® Marketplace will now be able to print permanent Disney Dining Experience membership cards for immediate use. This service is designed for existing and new members. Cards produced at the Guest Relations locations will be printed on paper stock similar to the annual pass tickets.


does this mean that the instructions i carefully took down last week (calling the DDE office to buy the ticket, then going later to pick it up from Epcot) are now redundant. what i mean is, do i now just go to guest relations when i arrive at MK on day one, and buy it and pick it up all in one go? or do i still have to ring and buy, then take a receipt number to guest relations? anyone know? i am guessing the former because they want to make it easier, but just thought i would check.

also, as one of those crazy foreigners who does not really understand the imperatives behind tipping (i mean, i know from living in canada that it has to be done and i am always conscientious in this regard - some of my closest college friends worked their way through law school waiting tables - but i can't understand why decent wages for waitstaff are not simply included in the cost of the meal like it is in nz/aust/uk - it seems wrong that someone's hard work should be dependent on charity and given that it is mandatory i can't see how it really encourages good service. over here, if you get REALLY outstanding service, you might round up the bill and leave a bit on the table to show your thanks - but you know that that actually means something, because they are already properly paid for the work they do). anyway, back to my point; the message above says that all bills now include 18% tip - does this mean that they work out the total for the meal, then take off the discount, and then add 18% of that total, or do they work out the cost of the meal, add on the tip, and then take off the discount?

thanks for any clarity you can bring...

does this mean that the instructions i carefully took down last week (calling the DDE office to buy the ticket, then going later to pick it up from Epcot) are now redundant. what i mean is, do i now just go to guest relations when i arrive at MK on day one, and buy it and pick it up all in one go? or do i still have to ring and buy, then take a receipt number to guest relations? anyone know? i am guessing the former because they want to make it easier, but just thought i would check.

It sure looks like you can go to the MK on Day one and get your AP and DDE all in one shot!

But maybe there's been a lot of trouble with people who don't tip (a lot of foreigners don't get the concept because they don't do it in their countries) :

I'm a 'foreigner' and I get it. In fact, before our last trip I posted a question here to make sure we got it right and didn't undercut anyone. We DO tip in the UK but I'll readily accept that the culture around it is different and it's not an anticipated part of someone's wage. I actually always end up tipping double when I go out with my BF and her DH because they never tip a penny at all. However - please don't tar us all with the same brush; which ever country I am in I make an active effort to understand what the customs and traditions expect when I am there as an act of basic courtesy. We are all 'foreigners' when we are away from our home base, wherever that may be... But back to the main point. We also pay a NMW in the UK (granted not a great one) so tipping may have a different emphasis. Just a note - for our last visit I tipped the Mousekeeper $4 a day because there were 4 of us in the room and that was what the advice seemed to be from 'locals'. We left an extra $40 our last day. I bumped into her on our way out and she thanked me for being so generous so maybe tipping fairly isn't actually what eveyone does, just what everyone says? I wasn't trying to be generous - just trying to keep to the rules of the country I was visiting which I had previously sought advice on and acknowledging a great service for 2 weeks.

...I think we show our satisfaction/dissatisfaction through our tipping procedures.


I don't think this is completely true any more. I have seen servers walk away from a table muttering about how cheap the tipper was but obviously did not consider the fact that the service they provided was terrible. I don't think some of the younger servers understand that tipping is not mandatory and is tied to the level of service. I am a very good tipper, I round up the bill and round up the tip, unless service is bad -then it starts going down by the dollar. The biggest pet peeve is when dinning alone and they assume they won't get a good tip any way so they don't hurt themselves waiting on me. I don't need to be fawned over but a simple 'how is it' before I am half done the meal or whatever I had is stone cold while I wait to tell you what was wrong with it.

The way I see it is that it can go both ways...

The good:
If the service is above average, I think 18% is a good number to start with. If I feel like the server deserved it, I will go 20-22% without thinking twice and will add on accordingly. With the new arrangement, it helps me figure out the starting point in a way. And considering that in most cases we tend to experience "above average" service, it only makes it easier for me.

I can understand why they do this in some ways because there are people who will calculate their tip off of the post-discount value when, in my opinion, it should be off of the pre-discount value. So, in another viewpoint, its more "fair" for the servers.

The bad:
I will not pay an 18% tip if I feel like the service sucked. At the same time, you kinda have to realize where the breakdown in service occurs in order to justify a reduction in tip. In other words, if the food itself was bad - dont blame (and punish) the wait staff. (But do get some satisfaction on that issue as well!!) However, if you wait forever for a refill, your server messes things up all the time and just does not put any effort into serving you in general, then I think a reduction is warranted.
If you feel like it is warranted, ask to see the manager and explain how you will be reducing the tip on the ticket and make sure you get a final receipt showing the final charge. This also gives you a good opportunity to talk to the manager about the lack of service and the issues you had. Provide some feedback in a calm manner and maybe you will get some pixie dust tossed your way for your troubles. It may only take 5 minutes out of your trip but I also believe that you cannot gripe about things unless you at least brought it up to someone who has the ability to do something about it.

The Ugly:
Sometimes when new things like this pops up, it gives the wrong impression to the wait staff that they are automatically going to get an extra $10-$15 (or in some cases a LOT more) in their pocket per table they wait. Some believe (and I have experienced it in some cases) that service tends to decline when tip is included or added on. (A la: DDE when the tip is included.) And considering I have always had the feeling that dining at Disney is part of the overall vacation experience, the last thing I need to see is service degrading. After all, some of my favorite spots already suffer from some service and quality degradation and I dont want to see that spread to other places.

Just received this e-mail:

Many of you have expressed concern about the 18% gratuity that will be added to all Disney Dining Experience transactions. When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card the assessed gratuity will be added to all table service restaurant locations and lounges for all transactions regardless of party size. Gratuity will not be added to any counter service, food cart or quick service locations. In the past, gratuity was only implemented for larger parties of 8 or more for guests utilizing their Disney Dining Experience membership.

This adjustment to the program has been implemented in order to align the Disney Dining Experience Program with other dining experiences where gratuities are included. Effective January 1, 2008, when utilizing your Disney Dining Experience discount 18% gratuity will be added.


If you have any further questions or concerns we would ask that you send an e-mail to our Executive Offices at wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com.

Thank you,

The Disney Dining Experience Team

I'm a 'foreigner' and I get it...

Hey, I wasn't thinking about the British when I wrote that. There are some Brits who are terrible tippers, but you get some of those in any group. No, I was thinking of a couple of specific ethnic groups who don't have a grasp on the tipping thing, but I don't want to point fingers. And I don't think "foreigner" has any negative connotations. I could have written "visitors from other countries" but it's more letters and my sentences are long enough as it is...

By the way, I actually would have advised you to tip the housekeepers slightly less. Unless they did quite a few special favors for you, I'd say $40 is a bit excessive. $2-$5 a day is about right depending on if you're asking for anything special (extra soap, a spill that needs to be vacuumed up, etc.) In the US, housekeepers actually DO get paid the minimum wage (which just recently went up!) and tips are just a bonus. The people you really need to tip are waiters and (usually) bellmen. They generally don't get paid minimum wage so they need to make up the extra in tips (and they do have to declare and get taxed on their tips!). But you make an excellent point about trying to understand the culture of where you are visiting. I, also, try to do that. Clearly, though, a lot of people in the world don't think like you and I!:)

The people you really need to tip are waiters and (usually) bellmen. They generally don't get paid minimum wage so they need to make up the extra in tips (and they do have to declare and get taxed on their tips!).

I would dearly have loved to have tipped a bellman after our check in 3 hours before our delayed 9 hour flight and long time in customs - we are always the family that get chosen to have their suitcases rooted through, my freckled and long plaited 5 year old clearly has a sinister look about her... Sadly we never saw one and delivered all our luggage to the room with no more help than a big blue felt tip circle on a map. Boy - if we'd seen a bellman that day he'd have done well out of us ;)

I would dearly have loved to have tipped a bellman after our check in 3 hours before our delayed 9 hour flight and long time in customs - we are always the family that get chosen to have their suitcases rooted through, my freckled and long plaited 5 year old clearly has a sinister look about her... Sadly we never saw one and delivered all our luggage to the room with no more help than a big blue felt tip circle on a map. Boy - if we'd seen a bellman that day he'd have done well out of us ;)

Ouch! Which hotel was that at? That'd be a big disappointment for me. I might actually ask for help if a bellman wasn't offered in that situation. Usually I stay at moderates and they always have somebody drive us on one of those little golf cart things and take our luggage up and show us our room... I almost feel guilty because my little two hour flight that I over-prepare for (with magazines, a book, video games and an iPod) doesn't hold a candle to the hop across the pond...

Edited to add: And I'd be lost and never seen again at most of these hotels with only a map and a blue circle! I'm hopeless as far as a sense of direction, but I'm a man so there's no way I'm asking for directions from anybody except my best friend...and then only in private!;)

After reading the details of the new 18% tipping policy, I think it was a good move.

In Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed," she worked as a waitress in Florida and was regularly not tipped by many European customers unaccustomed with American tipping. :eek:

The 18% will actually reduce my usual tip of doubling the bill and moving the decimal point for 20%. But waiters should make more overall, and I want Disney park workers to be better compensated. :)

WDW mgt. wouldn't step in and take a cut of this tip, would they?
I hate to question the motivation of Disney corporate management! :rolleyes:

I could see a system to compensate those who clear and wash the dishes and who seat the guests. :geek:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but:

Will the 18% be added for all guests, even those not using DDE? Say for example people go in and have no discount, no dining plan, just paying the usual prices on the menu, will the auto-tip be added?

No, I am not trying to weasel out of a tip :p I am just trying to be aware of what to expect :)

That is what is really confusing to me, FigmentFigment. It SOUNDS like that's what they're doing, but it is very conflicting information from the DDE communication and the clarification Mark got on the Dining Plan when they took out the tip. They CLAIMED they took out the tip so that it was 'under the control' of the diner. So they took the tip out of the plan (so it'd be more under your control), but they're going to add 18% to all meals, so that you don't forget to tip your server? Sounds like classic corporate double-speak to me.

But, maybe they're only adding it to DDE people and no-discount and basic dining plan people get to decide their own tip? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me, because I'd think DDE people would tend to be 'foodies' (or at least leaning towards that direction), and I would have thought that 'foodies' would be better tippers in general. But maybe I'm wrong on both of those items...

That is what I was thinking too Cathy. DDE members are AP holders and Florida residents. which I would think would be almost exclusively people who are accustomed to tipping properly. For the system to work out that the servers would be tipped fairly, They would need to make it an across the board, added to every bill thing. DDE cardholders would be a small percentage of the customers. Just doesn't make sense. Our DDE membership expires this month, and I don't think we will renew.

As I understand it, they are adding the 18% to the DDE meals only. They say that this is to bring the DDE in line with their other plans. This is the thing that doesn't make any sense - they just took the 18% OFF of the DDP! I've also read that this has to do with contract negotiations. So perhaps the 18% on the DDE is in some way to make up for the 18% that was taken off of the DDP.

Any way you look at it, this was sloppily handled by Disney. But as far as I know, there is no mandatory 18% tip added to folks who are not on any dining or discount plan.

Thanks for the info, Drince and DanYoung.

It's odd that they are singling out the DDE. As most use the discount as the tip anyway, maybe they were figuring it was a compromise, but really, it seems peculiar all the more singling out only DDE. At the same time though, I suppose they may figure it's less of a "hassle" since the tip is almost as much as the discount itself :confused: Maybe they'll change the wording to free tip instead of 20% discount :confused:

We only had the DDE one year before, when we weren't going to use the DDP when we booked with the AP rate. With the changes to the DDP we were thinking of going back to getting the DDE card when we get our APs renewed, but I don't really like the idea of being told what I have to tip, esp. if it is only DDE users that have the auto-tip. When we had the DDE, we used the savings as a tip anyway, but I would like to have some control over it incase of bad service (which I will admit we've only had once at WDW, and then it wasn't as "bad" as annoying/frustrating)

Personally, I think they should have just left the DDP alone (maybe raising the price a little) with the tip included, and not worried about adding auto-tip to DDE.

At the same time though I guess if it's a compromise since they took it off the DDP, DDE was a likely one to add it too, esp since I can see a lot of issues if they include it for all guests, esp. the first time guests to WDW who are dining at a table service restaurant. From my experience outside of WDW, not many places add a tip on automatically, so not many would expect that and perhaps many a fuss would be made on a nightly basis.

I guess in addition to the Year of a Million Dreams, it's the year of changes too (perhaps though not a million, lol...well, at least I hope not)