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DonaldDuck14
07-23-2002, 05:57 PM
After DCA's opening, it seems like we have had some un-happy campers on this discussion board who complain of how poorly this park was build. Now don't get me wrong, i think they could have done better too, but i still love that park. I like the fact the disney has made an effort to do more to the area instead of just having Disneyland. u can't blame them for really trying. And i personally i think DCA is nice to have around when u want something more instead of disneyland or if the crowds become massive at the original park. Now enough of my speech, are there any other people out there who agree w/ me or even disagree???:)

MouseWife
07-23-2002, 06:11 PM
Well, first off, I loved it because it has the Soap Opera Bistro. I hoped and it happened, the Soap Weekend {any CM's, when you hear of it coming again, please post! I will book!}

My kids did enjoy it. Me, I can't ride rollercoasters or 'carnival' type rides. Can't, don't want to, what ever.

I do like it. I prefer Disneyland, but I do like the way Disney is run, I like their policies.

If we took more time to enjoy each thing, then, maybe we would LOVE it, but we don't.

I loved being able to go right in from the Grand Californian. Oo, that was a nice touch. :)

saturday97
07-23-2002, 06:32 PM
I'm there with ya...
While not perfect, I love CA Screamin', Soarin', and Grizzly River run. I think the Grand Californian is beautiful and finally, we got a hotel in the park. And margaritas! I tend to think of it as a work in progress. In a way, they listened to what park-goers asked for and tried to give it to us -- a big coaster, alcohol, just something different. Tower of Terror will help, and hopefully, they will find a way to work in more of the characters. But I enjoy breaking up the day by spending a few hours there during busy times at DL.

And things are looking up-- I mean, they axed Superstar Limo, right??

MammaSilva
07-23-2002, 07:15 PM
Well I have to say that as long as I don't think in terms of Disneyland or 'what could have been' I can enjoy parts of DCA, I love Soaring and the GRR, I also love the Muppets....I don't do coasters like Screaming, only the "mountain range" at Disneyland....nothing UPSIDE down for ME ...thankyouverymuch! I like the fact that it's never crowded, of course when/if they ever 'fix' it that will change for sure.....

DisneylandKid
07-23-2002, 07:17 PM
I like DCA. It has some exciting attractions and a neat ambiance. I think the reason that people are so negative about it is because they are comparing it to Disneyland -- the most magical place in the world.

chrised43
07-23-2002, 07:17 PM
My family and I love the place. It has that Disney feel yet it's never crowded. Its nice going there and not being ran over by everyone. We still have our fun at DL but we always seem to end our day at CA, and where else can you get warm caramel corn.

socabch
07-23-2002, 07:24 PM
I like DCA as a place to get away from the crowds and have a beer while listening to the bands. It has some rides and shows that I enjoy. The thing I dislike about it is the carnival games. I always get uneasy when passing by. I guess because of the carnivals I've been to tend to rip you off on the expensive games.

newhdplayer
07-23-2002, 07:34 PM
I say to bring back the parking lot, along with up front parking for the Premium Pass Holders.

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 07:55 PM
Since you asked...

DCA is the poster child of everything that is wrong with the Walt Disney Company (and corporate America) today.

It's cheap, ugly, and cynically conceived by non-creatives to serve lowest common denominator cost-effective brand marketing over quality entertainment experiences tailored to surpass expectations (the former Disney brand hallmark).

There was no pride shown in any attempt to do the best job possible with this park, only an arrogant dismissal of the consumer as not knowing the difference. This despite many company traditions to the contrary and warnings from those who still carry the torch. The executives' mean-spirited and arrogant corporate culture, and dismissals of key Imagineering talent in the rush to advance yes-men to carry out this "dream" is the height of blind hubris from people who have no real interest in this company's product or key audience.

The executives in charge - - and their park - - deserve all the karmic fallout and bad word of mouth that has been received since opening. They have no one to blame but themselves. DCA's failure is a triumph of populism, the true capitalist system of supply and demand - - and a vindication of founder Walt Disney's belief in quality, art and reinvestment of profits to build something cool - - over greed and excessive take-home bonuses for elitist narcissists following the religious screed of common business school wisdom.

DCA's failure is a testiment to what Walt Disney built and made his name stand for, and this brand's indelible stamp on the collective conciousness. The fact that people still know the difference despite any attempts by the company to spin otherwise speaks for itself.

Oh, there are some good things there... Blast!, Soarin', a film on Walt Disney. But by and large the concept, design and execution of this park is no better than a box of soap on the supermarket shelf. It was not meant to have a soul and a purpose but to be a stock profit genrator with no other reason for being. It is an affront to the history, struggles, successes and hard earned wisdom of the company (and its employees and artisans who have spent their lives training and learning the traditions that made it great - - and whose talents were not used in this product) that made the park across the way.

DCA is worse than it is (as a stock amusement park) - - because of what it could - and should - have been. It represents the nadir of the company's intent and output and has helped to peg the brand another few notches lower.

What a waste of time, effort and the potential to leave a living legacy from nearsighted executives with only a brief time in the sun to make their mark. This is what they built. Now they must live with that legacy.

saturday97
07-23-2002, 08:06 PM
WHile I respect dissenting opinions, I got the feeling that the intent of this thread was to try to find the positives of DCA, even though the person who started it asked for those who disagree, I thought this might be a bit friendlier to those who like DCA,

merlinjones
07-23-2002, 08:10 PM
>>WHile I respect dissenting opinions, I got the feeling that the intent of this thread was to try to find the positives of DCA. <<

Read the post - - the original poster clearly invited all opinions: I quote:

>>Now enough of my speech, are there any other people out there who agree w/ me or even disagree???<<

I assume he meant what he said. Mine falls under the invited "disagree" column.

saturday97
07-23-2002, 08:11 PM
SOrry, reread it and edited. Thought this was supposed to be a "be nice to DCA" thread.

Cooie
07-23-2002, 09:22 PM
I think that what DCA is good for is what was suggested in the original post -- it's a good place to go when Disneyland gets overcrowded. Naturally, this wasn't what the park was intended to be, but that's the purpose it suits. For me, anyway. Do I think it can be fixed? With a major overhaul, perhaps. But I don't see that happening under the current regime, so for now I'll use it for a quiet space and a corn dog. ;)

DisneyFreak2000
07-24-2002, 01:16 AM
My opinion: Anyone who continues to say DCA needs to be dozed back into a parking lot needs to be hit across the head. I'm sorry, it's your opinion and if you miss the up close parking that's your perogative. Sarcasm or no sarcasm, I'm sick of hearing that. DCA deserves more and is much better than a crappy old parking lot, and if you want it that way and you don't like DCA, well guess what. Don't go to the park. Don't read about it. Don't post about it because DCA doesn't like you either!

:)

Anyways, I also am getting sick the negavtive comments on the boards because the people who post this have been spoiled. They never just look for the fun, they look for immediate perfection. The people that don't like DCA are the people that go to the theme park for the rides and not the experience. I may like to go on the rides, but there are certain things that you see that just make you think 'wow, this is magical.' I may not have an AP to DCA and DL so I only get to go once a year or so to each, but I have to say that each time I go I just have fun. I mean, there are some people that have fun despite what they're doing and there are some that HAVE TO BE on a ride to have fun. Myself, I can watch a show and hum the tune all day and look at the theming (except in PP, I'm sorry even for a DCA lover like me that is pretty bad) and be happy.

There are times when I like DCA more than DL. There's always so much to do at Disneyland and unless you go at the right times in the off season, etc. then you dont get to do it all. At DCA, it's less crowded and even on the busiest day you get to do it all if you work the system right.

I mean, this is my opinion but I love DCA. It's something new something refreshing and it's getting better each day of it's existance. And when I recently went yesterday to the parks, I loved them both but I had more fun at DCA beause of the fact there is less to do there.

At DL people get caught up in seeing it all, but only get to do the major parts. At DCA when you see the major parts, it's all of it. That means that you hvae time to savor your surroundings (except PP, that is pretty bad) and you get to have a good day.

saturday97
07-24-2002, 07:13 AM
Thank you, DisneyFreak. You said it so much better than I could have. I'm really tired of the negativity, too. I enjoy constructive discussions on how the parks can be improved, but I just wish that people could just relax and enjoy the good things, too.

DonaldDuck14
07-24-2002, 07:43 AM
thank u too disney freak and all of the other people who agree w/ me about DCA. and for those of u who don't like it...well i guess u'll never be happy, because DCA will be here for a looong time!

hbquikcomjamesl
07-24-2002, 08:34 AM
Personally, I see it as much more of a "work in progress" than DL or any of the WDW parks (even AK). When I was there for a passholder soft-open, as I left, I made a remark that it seemed to be a good start, with a lot of potential; I declined, however, to pay the extra bucks for a 2-park pass until The Parade was brought in.

By the time I set foot in the park again, I could see that DCA had already improved a bit, and I've been watching it improve ever since. I watched "Waste of Time" go bye-bye (from the title, I expected that it would either be about Disney history, or something to do with Mary Poppins, or something like Riverdance or Stomp; I certainly didn't expect anything so excruciatingly bad. The only reason I didn't walk out on it was that I couldn't believe it could continue to get worse instead of better (sort of like when I saw the movie, Rabbit Test).

The fact that TDS had a more successful opening than DCA (and, for that matter, the fact that the new Tomorrowland wasn't especially successful) just means that the Disney company is still made up of human beings, and that it still takes big risks. (Even if it does also shows that they're trying to do things on-the-cheap.)

justagrrl
07-24-2002, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by socabch
I like DCA as a place to get away from the crowds and have a beer while listening to the bands. It has some rides and shows that I enjoy. The thing I dislike about it is the carnival games. I always get uneasy when passing by. I guess because of the carnivals I've been to tend to rip you off on the expensive games.

I couldn't agree with you more. I like being able to enjoy an adult beverage if I like. I really enjoyed watching Hotel California play.

But the carnival games really bother me.

It's a known fact, (isn't it?) that carnival games - ALL of them - are there to rip you off. Although, a friend of ours won a little basketball one evening. Since they don't have kids, they gave it to our son (who's 3.) He thinks the carnival games are WONDERFUL. (ack!)

I understand that people are disappointed - especially when compared to DisneySea - the park that many feel should have been "ours". And I can hardly argue that I wouldn't want DisneySea here too. Who wouldn't? It's so...so...fantastic looking.

But...DCA isn't DisneySea. Complaining about it for months on end is never going to turn it in to it either. Better to realize this and get over it and make the best with what you've got. Find the things that you do enjoy and enjoy them.

I get the feeling that some people, who don't like it, don't want anyone to have fun at DCA. They spend time trying to convince others of it's overwhelming crappiness...even suggesting it was better as a lot. Some even seem to have convinced themselves that NO ONE has fun there...commenting about the people as they leave and how they are so unhappy and always complaining.

Yes - there are areas that need improvement. I can say that about Dland, MM, Knott's, my child's school, the apt. complex where I live, myself and pretty much everything else in the world. Do I feel the need to harp on it every chance I get. No.

Cooie
07-24-2002, 09:34 AM
While I'll agree that there's a bit more hostility toward the park than needed, we still have to face facts: it's not up to Disney standards. One walk through DCA easily shows what was done by WDI, and what was bought off the shelf. It's hard not to compare DCA to Disneyland when elements of that same imaginative approach are there, just not in full force.

As I said in a previous post, I don't outright hate the park, but I don't deny that it needs improvement. I love Soarin', I love Screamin' (although it's off the shelf), I adore the Animation Pavillion, and often times, I don't make a trip to the resort without seeing these things. But sometimes things that I want to take part in are unavailable, like, say, San Andreas Shakes has been until just recently. And that's kind of a ****er. But it also supports the fact that if DCA really were a destination point, everything would be open, no?

I'm eager to see how DCA progresses, especially after ToT opens. But in it's current form, it's more of an add-on, as suggested by the one-day passports now, than a stand-alone.

innerSpaceman
07-24-2002, 09:51 AM
Even a DCA-hater like me can find things to like.

Best thing about DCA from my point of view (though certainly not from Disney's) is that it's never crowded! Hooray!

Other things I enjoy:

The Grizzly peak, it's rock work, waterfalls, cascades and geysers are a masterwork of imagineering. With the exception of the geyers (and the sort of bear-resembling peak), I can truly feel like I've been magically transported to the high Sierras.

Much of the architecture on the Hollywood street is high quality, and there are some neat details.

The lobby of the Animation Building.

The wave fountain in front of the sun thingy.

Award Weiner's french fries.

Redwood Creek Challenge Trail is kind of a nice area.

Soarin' is a really good attraction. (It's merely "really good," not "great." And it's the only attraction that's even "really good").

Ok, that's it. Some nice areas, some good food, and one really good ride does not a good theme park make. But it works ok as another "land" and I suppose it's better than a finger in the eye.

JeffG
07-24-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Cooie
While I'll agree that there's a bit more hostility toward the park than needed, we still have to face facts: it's not up to Disney standards.

Let's not confuse facts with opinions. "Disney standards" is a hugely subjective term that most people seem to define to translate into whatever happens to fit their personal tastes.

While I see DCA as a somewhat modest park with a lot of room to grow, in my view it is full of elements that are pure Disney and I certainly do believe it is up to the standards established by previous Disney parks.

-Jeff

Cooie
07-24-2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by JeffG


Let's not confuse facts with opinions. "Disney standards" is a hugely subjective term that most people seem to define to translate into whatever happens to fit their personal tastes.


And that's not how it was meant. There are things I don't like about Disneyland that are still of a high quality, and I appreciate them as such. It's been said many times that the point of Disneyland, and all of its subsequent parks, is to be original and a cut above the rest. That's not opinion -- that's fact.

Disney Crone/Kid
07-24-2002, 10:31 AM
There was -- and ever will be -- only one modern-day creative genius that was Walt Disney. There was only one money whiz who supported his younger brother's soaring vision of a family amusement park and obtained the necessary financial backing for its construction, a genius in his own right, Roy Disney.

Like Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci of another time, super novas like these two don't come by often, much less as a pair sharing the same time and space.

As there is only one David, one Pieta, and one Mona Lisa and one Last Supper, there will only be one original Disneyland, personally masterminded and executed by the Disney brothers, themselves. They created the ultimate, the charmingest, and the happiest place on Earth for me. Peerless, it will ever be.

All of that to explain why I was able to accept, appreciate, and embrace DCA on its own terms.

- I love DCA's spaciousness and its ample breathing space, especially during these long, hot summer days when DL is packed to the gills. Less harried, the CMs are very warm, friendly and helpful.

- I love DCA's ample water features. Maybe it's the negative ions that refresh me, but refresh me they do. The moving waterfall beneath the large sun sculpture is dynamically captivating ... the GRR white water raft ride is ALWAYS energizingly thrilling (I love getting absolutely soaked in the summer -- the perfect cool-down)... and the huge lagoon is easy on the eyes, reminding me of home.

- I love DCA's naturalness. The foliage is maturing and filling in spaces. I especially appreciate the fabulous job the horticulture/landscape department is doing there with unusual and beautiful plantings throughout. Some of those plants are very new to me and my plant-loving husband. Of course, strolling through the well-tended farm gardens is ... grounding.

- I love licking a Fantasia ice cream cone from Burr-bank beneath the shade of the pergola, just outside the railroad car. There's always a pair of open seats for us, and it's a great place to people-watch and be entertained by live performers.

- I've never tired of Soarin' -- it is as exhilarating a week ago as it was a year ago when I did it for the first time, with many repeat rides inbetween.

- I sat through the movie, Golden Dreams, again and had my heartstrings tugged once again. Just like last year, I teared up and my heart swelled up in gratitude for those who sacrificed and contributed mightily to the wonderfulness and vigor of my adopted home, California.

- I love getting my exercise there. Safe, uncrowded, good music, and so much to see. Far more interesting than walking/running around a track. And when I am winded, there's always an open bench to sit on and catch my breath with lots of smiling faces going by.

- I love DCA's access to The Grand California Hotel, now my favorite California hotel and I've never spent a night there. I make it a point to stop in to visit and take in its grand, cavernous ambiance. I am instantly transported in my mind to the Ahwanee at Yosemite or the Old Faithful Lodge at Yellowstone, without leaving home. One day I hope to celebrate a major milestone by doing the Concierge Service experience there.

- I love that occasional ice cold beer after a hot morning and mid-day with visiting family and friends at DL. I enjoy sipping on a glass of fine wine watching the Electrical Light Parade -- the most stupendously electrifying parade in the world, bar none -- from the Golden Winery's terrace.

- I especially love visiting with Mr. Disney by stopping in the Hollywood Animation attraction and watching the beautifully done film about him.

As a Disney "offspring," DCA is the classic example of regression to the mean. It's nature's way: Tall fathers tend to have tall children, but not usually as tall as they are. Short fathers tend to have short children, but not usually as short as they are. This doesn't ALWAYS hold true, of course. There are some tall fathers who produce even taller children; there are some short fathers who produce even shorter children. But the general tendency is for the children to have heights slightly closer to the mean than their fathers.


To many, DCA may pale -- fall short -- next to the original park and in comparison to the more recent, Disney Seas. For me, I see great promise. This is just the beginning. Just like Disneyland, it will evolve and hopefully improve to its best potential. It may never measure up to Disneyland, but it will still stand head and shoulders over most family parks.

In just one year, I've seen countless positive tweaks. I like to think that Mr. Disney's influence goes beyond his Earthly life's.

I also trust in the strength of Mr. Disney's spirit -- and Califia's, too. DCA, like Disneyland, are gifts of that spirit, and I will not look a gift horse in its mouth.

I appreciate DCA.

merlinjones
07-24-2002, 10:59 AM
Disney Crone/Kid: That was likely the most eloquent and winning defense of DCA I have yet seen posted.

The only argument I'd make is that negative spirits were behind DCA - - and those spirits linger (for me) in design and execution and intent.

Walt's spirit was far more tasteful.

DonaldDuck14
07-24-2002, 11:27 AM
so all u DCA "dislikers"out there, it really shows how all ur complaining haven't drove people away from the new park and nor has it made the new park another tokyo disney sea either. so i say that we should cut down on the DCA negetivity on this discussion boards. i'm not saying that we should eradicate it, but i'm tired of seeing alot of threads about the negative side of DCA. Thanx again to all u guys who have stated ur opinions on this thread....negative opinion are welcome also.